Author Topic: Crazy American Politics  (Read 96143 times)

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Online RicoS321

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Re: Crazy American Politics
« Reply #440 on: March 11, 2020, 10:58:29 AM »
Whilst I get what you’re saying , Rico. The best thing would be for trump to die of the corona virus. I’m not sure the world could take another four years of that cretin. He’s a dangerous uneducated racist prick and a victory for him would only encourage those racist cunts that vote for him or bum him worldwide.

Looks like Biden set to be the Democrat nominee. I don't know what I'd do if I was in Yankland. I'm fairly certain that I wouldn't vote. When you say that the world can't afford another four years of Trump, do you think that the world can afford 4-8 years of Biden? I'm not convinced. The defining feature of Obama and Blair's eras - who I'd suggest are the easiest comparisons to make with Biden - for me, is what came after. Ignoring Iraq (and for the record, I think he's a total cunt) Blair did a lot of decent work in office (Sure Start, minimum wage etc), but he stopped short of creating a more caring and thoughtful/questioning society. There were few, if any, traditional Labour values (not that I'd necessarily care for those anyway, but it's not about me!) embedded into society that couldn't be ripped up in seconds upon his (or Brown's) departure. Unsurprisingly, that is what happened, with Tory austerity trashing anything good that Blair might have done and with Osborne going further than even Thatcher would have attempted. Similarly in the US, where Obama's Blair years (pandering to Wall St, the centre-right media etc) have easily been unwound - and more - in four years of Trump. It was easy. Not just easy, but inevitable.

Four to eight years of Biden won't lead to a better world, they'll lead to another Trump. When you don't challenge the economic norms, when you don't challenge the donor class or the media then the cycle will only ever frequent between Blair and Boris, Obama and Trump/Bush. That's the new cycle, the new wave - you could chart it from G W Bush, moving up and down whilst steadily rightward. Thatcher and Regan set that new normal very succesfully. Unless you're willing to attack that normal and show it for what it is then that cycle continues. In my opinion, there is no avenue for tackling climate change, inequality, resource use, consumption, perpetual war within a hopey change Biden manifesto - things that are actual physical issues that will come to a head this century. Thus, in eight years time you'll just be eight years closer to the limit. Being closer to the limit brings greater Draconianism, greater hatred of the immigrant, greater insularity and greater levels of disaster. Those times call for the next big man, the next populist, and you can be sure as fuck he won't be as thick as Trump. The Sanders's will have been long shot.

Biden himself isn't some evil chap, he's significantly better than Trump will be. What he isn't though, is someone who'll change things. Four more years of Trump might be horrendous for quite a few people (if we're honest, we'd probably agree that it hasn't been nearly as bad a four years under Trump as predicted for the majority), but it might just be enough to wake people up too. Otherwise you wait another 12-16 years for the next candidate who puts changing the system and challenging the status quo at the top of their agenda, and fuck knows what things will look like by then.

Offline Elgindon

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Re: Crazy American Politics
« Reply #441 on: March 11, 2020, 11:31:07 AM »

 Trump,Sanders or Biden.What an array of choices.I assumed Biden was just a bit old and doddery for the presidency but wasnt aware of his creepier side...

Offline rocket_scientist

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Re: Crazy American Politics
« Reply #442 on: March 11, 2020, 11:33:16 AM »
Inherent in your rant is that you think Trump is, or Biden would be "in charge" of the USA. It's like you're saying that Blair was, and Boris is in charge of the UK. Just like your views of left v. right, this is old traditional thinking that is as good as obsolete in the modern era. It wouldn't have been obsolete if Corbyn had won but the biggest question is WHO is in charge of the west?

Putin is clearly in charge of Russia and the party is in charge of China but arguably they're just as corrupt as the people who really control the west. Equality of opportunity and addressing the climate issues are required from natural justice and common sense alone but these aren't close to the agendas of the "leaders", self-gratification being the key drivers.

I'm amazed people still think in traditional terms without seeing what's really going on.
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Online RicoS321

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Re: Crazy American Politics
« Reply #443 on: March 11, 2020, 02:13:24 PM »
Inherent in your rant is that you think Trump is, or Biden would be "in charge" of the USA. It's like you're saying that Blair was, and Boris is in charge of the UK. Just like your views of left v. right, this is old traditional thinking that is as good as obsolete in the modern era. It wouldn't have been obsolete if Corbyn had won but the biggest question is WHO is in charge of the west?

Putin is clearly in charge of Russia and the party is in charge of China but arguably they're just as corrupt as the people who really control the west. Equality of opportunity and addressing the climate issues are required from natural justice and common sense alone but these aren't close to the agendas of the "leaders", self-gratification being the key drivers.

I'm amazed people still think in traditional terms without seeing what's really going on.

I didn't think that was inherent in what I wrote, but it's a fair point. I did mean "what they represent" rather than who they are. I agree about the traditional thinking of left v right, but it's difficult to articulate in another fashion that people would get. It's why I mentioned Climate Change, resource use etc. These things are, by definition "correct" targets, that transcend left/right. I'm interested in correct answers to these problems, or as close to/attempting to (I didn't think the green deal was necessarily the answer for example, but it was an attempt at least). I'm interested in freedom rather than living solely to feed a system. As to who owns it in the West, a glance at Biden and his deliberate pace-setters (Buttigegigig, Amy fitshertits and the ither cunt) donations would give a hint. In reality, I don't believe any one person or person(s) own the system anymore. It's owned by its religious followers. There are, of course, still yer players like the Koch (singular), Singer, Bezos (probably) and so on and yer facilitators like yer Pelerins, ERGs, Fox, Telegraph etc. However, I think for the most part the system controls itself, aided by a lack of questioning - deliberate or otherwise.