Scotland squad

[Goldie03]

What the fuck just happened haha 

[BigAl]

Daylight robbery

We'll take it  

[dons8321]

Smash and grab...fucking unbelievable.  We were absolutely shit for 64 mins,. If we'd been down 4 or 5 no-one could have complained 

Edited Thursday at 20:48 by dons8321

[BigAl]

16 minutes ago, Goldie03 said:

What the fuck just happened haha 

Nae sure missus, but I'll take it 

[RicoS321]

That was class! Whatever you think of Clarke, we have to keep him now. He must be the luckiest man in football history. 

He got nearly everything wrong tonight. Hanley on his wrong foot was fucking awful (don't get me wrong, he defended well). It meant Robertson had to spend the evening a maximum of fifteen yards for him so he had an easy pass, that resulted in Doak being isolated on his wrong side. With the extra touch required for Hanley, Adams was never going to be in space, so was a complete waste of a jersey. Whilst it was the first time we have seen Ferguson and Christie together, it should have been clear that they are too similar in that role and always like to turn back, rather than Gilmour with his progressive passing. The press was all wrong the entire game (until Dykes pressed the goalie!), and we were just generally disjointed. He took fucking ages to make changes, only making them when the injury occurred, and it was clear that they were always scoring. We just got lucky with the offsideish goal, which wasn't a result of being lifted by their goal, or a change in momentum. It was just insane. But fucking hell it was good! Well done Clarke, you're difficult not to love.

[Jute]

I genuinely have no idea how we won that. We were awful for huge chunks of the game. As Rico said Clarke got almost every call wrong but we somehow won 3-1. Makes a change to coming away wondering how we lost I suppose. 
 

ETA so now win on Sunday and Denmark beat Greece and we are guaranteed a play off plus a potential winners takes all game against Denmark at home for the group. 

[Goldie03]

1 hour ago, BigAl said:

Nae sure missus, but I'll take it 

Me too ex dons getting the goals hurrah 

Dykes goal was some finish  

[tlg1903]

3 hours ago, BigAl said:

Daylight robbery

We'll take it  

Floodlight robbery

[OrlandoDon]

See that Christie and Ferguson are suspended for Sunday. Wouldn’t mind seeing Lennon miller come in but has Clarke got the stones? Expect to see two up top with dykes and Adams at 9 and 10, gilmour and mctom in the middle. Really hope to see doak on the right, sad we don’t have a left midfielder in the entire squad….. although with his assist I’m sure Armstrong could play left midfielder. Luke McGowan? With the two suspended, wonder if he actually calls up Armstrong. He has McLean miller and gilmour though, prob enough.

need a good win, good performance, and a few goals. 

[RicoS321]

3 hours ago, OrlandoDon said:

See that Christie and Ferguson are suspended for Sunday. Wouldn’t mind seeing Lennon miller come in but has Clarke got the stones? Expect to see two up top with dykes and Adams at 9 and 10, gilmour and mctom in the middle. Really hope to see doak on the right, sad we don’t have a left midfielder in the entire squad….. although with his assist I’m sure Armstrong could play left midfielder. Luke McGowan? With the two suspended, wonder if he actually calls up Armstrong. He has McLean miller and gilmour though, prob enough.

need a good win, good performance, and a few goals. 

I wouldn't play Gilmour and Miller together (unless Miller plays further forward). Gilmour/Miller and Christie deep would be fine, or Gilmour/Miller and McLean. 

Straight 4-4-2 for me though. Dykes and Adams, with Doak in the only position he can actually play football in. McGinn left.

[manc_don]

Bonkers, just bonkers. But he can leave Armstrong the fuck alone. No way will he be able to play that many games this season, rather he kept himself for the Dons and Clarke find someone else to make the position their own. Must have been some night in Glasgow last night!

[tlg1903]

49 minutes ago, manc_don said:

Bonkers, just bonkers. But he can leave Armstrong the fuck alone. No way will he be able to play that many games this season, rather he kept himself for the Dons and Clarke find someone else to make the position their own. Must have been some night in Glasgow last night!

I doubt Armstrong is on his radar 2bh given the wealth of cm's we have. 

[wee toon red]

1 hour ago, manc_don said:

Bonkers, just bonkers. But he can leave Armstrong the fuck alone. No way will he be able to play that many games this season, rather he kept himself for the Dons and Clarke find someone else to make the position their own. Must have been some night in Glasgow last night!

Scotland qualifying for the World Cup would be better than anything the dons can still achieve this season so if Armstrong was needed - he isn’t, so it’s a moot point anyway - then he’d be welcome to go imo

[OrlandoDon]

1 hour ago, tlg1903 said:

I doubt Armstrong is on his radar 2bh given the wealth of cm's we have. 

I’m meaning left mid. We have no left midfielders in the squad and shoe horning doak onto the left is crap, for doak and for Scotland. Even Napoli have played mctominnay on the left this season, it’s a problem area we have, certainly don’t want him out there. Armstrong has played on the left, he’s capable on that side, lovely assist for gyamfi of late kinda reminds us he can play out there. Can’t remember who he scored against for Scotland in recent years, cutting in from the left to score bottom left.

he’s older and not a long term solution, hence i threw out luke McGowan. He’s playing more than ralston, Hanley I think, plus all of our keepers. I’d also consider Josh doig or Greg Taylor, if we’re going to shoe horn a player into left mid why not put someone out there who actually plays on the left.

i think both MLS boys can play on the left but are injured??

Edited Friday at 11:18 by OrlandoDon

[RicoS321]

19 minutes ago, OrlandoDon said:

I’m meaning left mid. We have no left midfielders in the squad and shoe horning doak onto the left is crap, for doak and for Scotland. Even Napoli have played mctominnay on the left this season, it’s a problem area we have, certainly don’t want him out there. Armstrong has played on the left, he’s capable on that side, lovely assist for gyamfi of late kinda reminds us he can play out there. Can’t remember who he scored against for Scotland in recent years, cutting in from the left to score bottom left.

he’s older and not a long term solution, hence i threw out luke McGowan. He’s playing more than ralston, Hanley I think, plus all of our keepers. I’d also consider Josh doig or Greg Taylor, if we’re going to shoe horn a player into left mid why not put someone out there who actually plays on the left.

i think both MLS boys can play on the left but are injured??

I don't think we're actually looking for a left midfielder though, we generally play a wing back, or an attacking forward in a 4-2-3-1. If we do go 4-4-2, it's fairly straightforward to play McGinn there, who was played in that role numerous times for club and country. Christie also.

[OrlandoDon]

24 minutes ago, RicoS321 said:

I don't think we're actually looking for a left midfielder though, we generally play a wing back, or an attacking forward in a 4-2-3-1. If we do go 4-4-2, it's fairly straightforward to play McGinn there, who was played in that role numerous times for club and country. Christie also.

Kinda. But isn’t that like saying Aberdeen didn’t need Armstrong because we have plenty of center mids, or a forward because we have yengi and Ambrose? 
we are poor on the left, Christie doesn’t really play wide any more, I get your point about mcginn but why are we seeing doak out there? Small sample size but doak is much more productive on the right. 
we got width from Robertson and tierney but that ship has sailed now, plus I know Clarke isn’t open to much new/different, but I hope we explore younger and exciting (ish) options.

 

[wokinginashearerwonderland]

It is starting to look like another case of Robertson and Tierney all over again.  Clarke seems intent on trying to fit all of his best players in the same side and to fuck with the formation and tactical game plan.  We started with four central midfielders last night and it became five for a while once Gilmour came on, which is ridiculous.  He needs to have the balls to just leave a couple of his big name players on the bench and stop putting square pegs in round holes.  John McGinn is no more a wide player than Keiran Tierney is a centre half.  I'd far rather we played our best wingers regardless of who they play for.  It must be a better option to play a winger that plays there week in, week out for St Mirren or Motherwell than persist with a stupid formation which gives us little width or crosses into the box.

McTominay, Ferguson and Gilmour for me would be the certain starters in our best side if everyone is fit.  No need to be shoehorning McGinn and Christie in there too.

We are masters of turning what looks like a good group of players on paper into less than the sum of their parts.  We made Greece look like Brazil last night, I would have hated to have paid for a ticket to watch that.  If we persist with that kind of approach, there is no way were are beating either Denmark at home or Greece away and unlikely to get past a similar standard of opposition in the plays off either.  Clarke has to be braver.    

[OrlandoDon]

10 minutes ago, wokinginashearerwonderland said:

It is starting to look like another case of Robertson and Tierney all over again.  Clarke seems intent on trying to fit all of his best players in the same side and to fuck with the formation and tactical game plan.  We started with four central midfielders last night and it became five for a while once Gilmour came on, which is ridiculous.  He needs to have the balls to just leave a couple of his big name players on the bench and stop putting square pegs in round holes.  John McGinn is no more a wide player than Keiran Tierney is a centre half.  I'd far rather we played our best wingers regardless of who they play for.  It must be a better option to play a winger that plays there week in, week out for St Mirren or Motherwell than persist with a stupid formation which gives us little width or crosses into the box.

McTominay, Ferguson and Gilmour for me would be the certain starters in our best side if everyone is fit.  No need to be shoehorning McGinn and Christie in there too.

We are masters of turning what looks like a good group of players on paper into less than the sum of their parts.  We made Greece look like Brazil last night, I would have hated to have paid for a ticket to watch that.  If we persist with that kind of approach, there is no way were are beating either Denmark at home or Greece away and unlikely to get past a similar standard of opposition in the plays off either.  Clarke has to be braver.    

Agreed, but what is our best 11? You could play mctominnay up top with a forward, Ferguson gilmour and mcginn center mid, wing backs Robertson and doak. McKenna on the left of a back 3. Wouldn’t mind us giving Scott Bain a shot, at least he plays weekly.

Clarke won’t do it but are robertson’s days numbered? Doig seems to be doing well, hickey plays left too, Taylor is a tidy player. I just don’t think we get much attacking play from Robertson any more (didn’t see yesterday, I could be wrong.)

[wokinginashearerwonderland]

47 minutes ago, OrlandoDon said:

Agreed, but what is our best 11? You could play mctominnay up top with a forward, Ferguson gilmour and mcginn center mid, wing backs Robertson and doak. McKenna on the left of a back 3. Wouldn’t mind us giving Scott Bain a shot, at least he plays weekly.

Clarke won’t do it but are robertson’s days numbered? Doig seems to be doing well, hickey plays left too, Taylor is a tidy player. I just don’t think we get much attacking play from Robertson any more (didn’t see yesterday, I could be wrong.)

It's more square pegs in round holes though.  Robertson is a full back rather than a wing back and used to playing in a back four.  McKenna has played most of his football in a back four.  Doak definitely ain't a wing back.

I think Robertson's demise is very exaggerated by everyone.  He is only 31 and played 45 times for Liverpool last season and another 9 for his country.  He has plenty left in the tank.  He bombs forward for Liverpool and has world class players to cover him but I suppose it is a different story for Scotland where you are relying on the likes of Hanley and Souttar to be filling in the gaps you leave.

[RicoS321]

1 hour ago, wokinginashearerwonderland said:

It is starting to look like another case of Robertson and Tierney all over again.  Clarke seems intent on trying to fit all of his best players in the same side and to fuck with the formation and tactical game plan.  We started with four central midfielders last night and it became five for a while once Gilmour came on, which is ridiculous.  He needs to have the balls to just leave a couple of his big name players on the bench and stop putting square pegs in round holes.  John McGinn is no more a wide player than Keiran Tierney is a centre half.  I'd far rather we played our best wingers regardless of who they play for.  It must be a better option to play a winger that plays there week in, week out for St Mirren or Motherwell than persist with a stupid formation which gives us little width or crosses into the box.

McTominay, Ferguson and Gilmour for me would be the certain starters in our best side if everyone is fit.  No need to be shoehorning McGinn and Christie in there too.

We are masters of turning what looks like a good group of players on paper into less than the sum of their parts.  We made Greece look like Brazil last night, I would have hated to have paid for a ticket to watch that.  If we persist with that kind of approach, there is no way were are beating either Denmark at home or Greece away and unlikely to get past a similar standard of opposition in the plays off either.  Clarke has to be braver.    

Clarke has only a few games remaining, and if he qualifies then he can do whatever he likes to be honest. The bravery should have been there in the Denmark away and Belarus games (during them, not necessarily from the start), as they would have given us the platform to win the group, which looks unlikely at present. If he gets us to the world cup with his approach then he'll have proven us wrong.

Having one player out of position isn't the end of the world, and often the imbalance of having a winger and a non-winger playing wide works quite well. The problem with Clarke is that he inverted the wingers, which nullified Doak completely. Like Morris, his best attribute is getting to the line. It should be used to death. McGinn plays wide regularly for club and country, and the difference between him playing right and left isn't nearly as pronounced as Doak, so it seems bloody obvious to play Doak correctly and let the experienced guy play slightly out of position. I can't think of a Scottish winger that would be worth dropping and out of position McGinn for. I'd almost certainly play Christie there ahead of any other SPFL winger too.

58 minutes ago, wokinginashearerwonderland said:

I think Robertson's demise is very exaggerated by everyone.  He is only 31 and played 45 times for Liverpool last season and another 9 for his country.  He has plenty left in the tank.  He bombs forward for Liverpool and has world class players to cover him but I suppose it is a different story for Scotland where you are relying on the likes of Hanley and Souttar to be filling in the gaps you leave

Agreed, Robertson is fine. He seems to love playing for Scotland too, and gives everything. As you say, the issue was the central pairing. No issue with Souttar, personally, Hanley was where the problem lay. Against Denmark, we avoided giving the ball to him short, and that allowed Robertson to play a bit higher, and played to Hanley's undoubted penalty box strengths. We should never be doing that at home to any team (unless injury forces it), and we saw exactly why every time Hanley got the ball last night. Robertson basically formed a back three when we had the ball, isolating Doak, and taking everything away from Robertson too. None of the commentators mentioned it, and the manager clearly doesn't see it, it's fucking mental. Put any left sided defender in that position, and the game completely changes. McKenna, for example, strides out with the ball on his left foot and has options to use Robertson right on the touchline, go short to a midfielder, or play Adams in the channel. Hanley had: pass to Robertson five yards away, or take another touch and give it to Souttar. It affected the entire performance. It was the reason Doak struggled, the reason Adams was isolated, and the reason that our midfield kept passing backwards (because it took so fucking long to get the ball to them). When Dykes came on, it allowed the punt up the middle, which is another reason we were successful(ish) against Denmark. If Hanley plays, Dykes must too, basically.

[wokinginashearerwonderland]

19 hours ago, RicoS321 said:

Put any left sided defender in that position, and the game completely changes. McKenna, for example, strides out with the ball on his left foot and has options to use Robertson right on the touchline, go short to a midfielder, or play Adams in the channel. Hanley had: pass to Robertson five yards away, or take another touch and give it to Souttar. It affected the entire performance. It was the reason Doak struggled, the reason Adams was isolated, and the reason that our midfield kept passing backwards (because it took so fucking long to get the ball to them). When Dykes came on, it allowed the punt up the middle, which is another reason we were successful(ish) against Denmark. If Hanley plays, Dykes must too, basically.

That sounds awfully simplistic Rico to suggest the reason we made Greece look like Brazil was down to Hanley playing as a left sided centre half and it would have been a totally different game with McKenna in there instead.

If you watch Liverpool, Robertson plays next to Van Dijk all the time, who is right footed but their whole team approach is just totally different. There are hundreds of examples of successful sides with two right sided centre halves, I really don’t see that as too big a deal.

The ability (or lack of it) in our players to keep the ball and string more than two passes together was much more to blame on Wednesday. Our best keeper of the ball in Gilmour being on the bench did not help.

[RicoS321]

4 hours ago, wokinginashearerwonderland said:

That sounds awfully simplistic Rico to suggest the reason we made Greece look like Brazil was down to Hanley playing as a left sided centre half and it would have been a totally different game with McKenna in there instead.

If you watch Liverpool, Robertson plays next to Van Dijk all the time, who is right footed but their whole team approach is just totally different. There are hundreds of examples of successful sides with two right sided centre halves, I really don’t see that as too big a deal.

The ability (or lack of it) in our players to keep the ball and string more than two passes together was much more to blame on Wednesday. Our best keeper of the ball in Gilmour being on the bench did not help.

I should have added that I thought, individually, Hanley did exactly what was asked and played well (early switch off aside). He played a key part in the first two goals.

Of course there are other examples and different ways to play, but we didn't play in a different way. Hanley there versus Denmark was perfect. He could go quickly to Dykes on his right, and he didn't once take the ball forward. That out-ball to Dykes meant we could afford the extra touch, which Hanley did every single time he got the ball last night. Not once did he take it forward, or onto his left side. Robertson didn't get near the left touchline all game as a result - he had to be there for the short pass. It brought them right on top of us, and we struggled to get out. You can see the average position of Hanley and Robertson from the BBC review, you'll get the idea. Even when Gilmour came on, to solve the problem in midfield, we only marginally improved. When Dykes came on, it was immediately better (most folk are suggesting we were shite for 64 minutes, but we were actually shite right up until the second went in). It wasn't all down to Hanley playing, it was Hanley playing in that system. Just play the fucking left footer, who naturally takes the ball out on his left.

Clarke got it completely wrong, and we just shouldn't be playing that way at Hampden - we played like the away team. You could argue that he played to nullify them until the last part of the game, but I don't buy that at all. It just looked like a poor tactical error (through blind loyalty) to me. 

Edited Saturday at 14:44 by RicoS321

[RicoS321]

Also, I could have framed the issue as playing Adams up front being the problem, as it's equally an issue that Adams can't provide an out-ball for Hanley as it is that Hanley takes an extra touch and thus can't feed Adams quickly. The reason I'm assigning blame to the choice to play Hanley rather than Adams is because we were the home team against a side who aren't any better than us (with their players missing). The onus should have been on us to take the ball forward from defence and play on the front foot. Even more so given that it was a must-win game. 

We got lucky though. You do feel that Clarke doesn't really learn lessons for next time around, or he's unwilling to learn lessons.

[OrlandoDon]

On 10/10/2025 at 10:42, RicoS321 said:

Clarke has only a few games remaining, and if he qualifies then he can do whatever he likes to be honest. The bravery should have been there in the Denmark away and Belarus games (during them, not necessarily from the start), as they would have given us the platform to win the group, which looks unlikely at present. If he gets us to the world cup with his approach then he'll have proven us wrong.

Having one player out of position isn't the end of the world, and often the imbalance of having a winger and a non-winger playing wide works quite well. The problem with Clarke is that he inverted the wingers, which nullified Doak completely. Like Morris, his best attribute is getting to the line. It should be used to death. McGinn plays wide regularly for club and country, and the difference between him playing right and left isn't nearly as pronounced as Doak, so it seems bloody obvious to play Doak correctly and let the experienced guy play slightly out of position. I can't think of a Scottish winger that would be worth dropping and out of position McGinn for. I'd almost certainly play Christie there ahead of any other SPFL winger too.

Agreed, Robertson is fine. He seems to love playing for Scotland too, and gives everything. As you say, the issue was the central pairing. No issue with Souttar, personally, Hanley was where the problem lay. Against Denmark, we avoided giving the ball to him short, and that allowed Robertson to play a bit higher, and played to Hanley's undoubted penalty box strengths. We should never be doing that at home to any team (unless injury forces it), and we saw exactly why every time Hanley got the ball last night. Robertson basically formed a back three when we had the ball, isolating Doak, and taking everything away from Robertson too. None of the commentators mentioned it, and the manager clearly doesn't see it, it's fucking mental. Put any left sided defender in that position, and the game completely changes. McKenna, for example, strides out with the ball on his left foot and has options to use Robertson right on the touchline, go short to a midfielder, or play Adams in the channel. Hanley had: pass to Robertson five yards away, or take another touch and give it to Souttar. It affected the entire performance. It was the reason Doak struggled, the reason Adams was isolated, and the reason that our midfield kept passing backwards (because it took so fucking long to get the ball to them). When Dykes came on, it allowed the punt up the middle, which is another reason we were successful(ish) against Denmark. If Hanley plays, Dykes must too, basically.

I dont agree with you both. Robertson is in decline. It’s not that he’s bad, he’s still a very good player. But where is the guy who hit the line vs Spain to create a goal? I don’t see him quite so attack minded and I don’t think it’s because of the central defenders. Formation definitely plays a part, having two or three central defenders covering space as he pushes on, but there’s a reason he’s. no longer first choice at Liverpool. 
he’s still our number one left back, but I think we’re at the point where we need a left mid who’ll get to the line and give us width as I dont see that from Robertson as much and that was a big factor in his game for both club and country.

[RicoS321]

1 hour ago, OrlandoDon said:

I dont agree with you both. Robertson is in decline. It’s not that he’s bad, he’s still a very good player. But where is the guy who hit the line vs Spain to create a goal? I don’t see him quite so attack minded and I don’t think it’s because of the central defenders. Formation definitely plays a part, having two or three central defenders covering space as he pushes on, but there’s a reason he’s. no longer first choice at Liverpool. 
he’s still our number one left back, but I think we’re at the point where we need a left mid who’ll get to the line and give us width as I dont see that from Robertson as much and that was a big factor in his game for both club and country.

I'd agree that Robertson isn't as good as he was, but in the game you didn't watch the other night, he was forced to play deep because of Hanley's position (I even provided a graphic!). Robertson is still more than capable of getting up and down the line (Shinnie can even manage at 34!), although it would be good to see him get more minutes for sharpness, as thon good laddie that came on will rip him to shreds in Greece.