Scotland squad

[Jute]

1 hour ago, RicoS321 said:

Massive shock, as Tierney pulls out of the squad through injury. The other lad too. Ridiculously, no call up for Armstrong, despite his massive summer move. 

Ralston and Tierney out of squad and Josh Doig in. 

[RicoS321]

3 hours ago, Jute said:

Ralston and Tierney out of squad and Josh Doig in. 

I'd have Doig over Tierney going forward. Tierney is a great player on his day, but that happens once a season. 

[RicoS321]

Should be interesting tonight. Might get a good idea of how the qualifying will go. Odds on Clarke shoehorning Hanley (on his wrong side) and McLean into the starting lineup? Thankfully Ralston is out, or he'd have been in too, and with Tierney missing that should see the end of the back three.

I'd go with the following. I don't like McTominay and McGinn together, but maybe with Doak providing width, that'll create enough space for them not to step on each other's toes.  Christie and Gilmour is quite a light midfield, but we don't really have a hard midfielder who does the yards (McGinn solid, but gets caught in possession far too often to be deep).

 

[wokinginashearerwonderland]

Not bad Rico and lovely graphics too.  I'd have Ferguson in for Christie, maybe Bowie in instead of Adams and my Granny in for Gunn but apart from that I'd go with the same.  As long as we can stop getting Gunn involved we have a chance.

[RicoS321]

1 hour ago, wokinginashearerwonderland said:

Not bad Rico and lovely graphics too.  I'd have Ferguson in for Christie, maybe Bowie in instead of Adams and my Granny in for Gunn but apart from that I'd go with the same.  As long as we can stop getting Gunn involved we have a chance.

Gunn is there because his da played for the Dons, and he's neither Zander Clark or Liam Kelly. Also, that lineup builder website didn't have "Lamppost" as an option.

I'd bring Bowie on for the last half hour probably. Adams is very hardworking and will run their backline around for a while, which is a good option away from home. Ferguson ahead of Christie I wasn't sure about either. I always associate Ferguson with playing further forward, and I'd be intrigued to see Christie play in the role he does for his club, even though I'd have reservations about the weakness of him and Gilmour together. I'm fairly certain that Clarke will continue to play him on the wing, despite him being ineffective there for quite some time, and we'll see McGinn landing us in shite from a deep lying position instead. 

[Slim]

Think Ferguson plays a bit deeper for Bologna these days.

[tlg1903]

And also not playing as much.  After seeing what he can do going forward it seems a waste.  

[JessianK]

I take it adams is the only striker in Scotland for the team? Surely we have young up and coming Scottish strikers...

[OrlandoDon]

2 hours ago, tlg1903 said:

And also not playing as much.  After seeing what he can do going forward it seems a waste.  

He’s coming back from injury again, not sure how match fit he even is.

[Jute]

[Jute]

Is that a 4-4-2?

[BigAl]

Fucking Grant Hanley 

Think I will give it a miss.

[Jute]

Pretty much as expected so far. Mainly one way traffic.  Positive is Denmark not really tested Gunn despite all their possession. 

[Jute]

In other group game Greece hammering Belarus 4-0

[Jute]

Greece 5-1 up. 

[Jute]

We are sitting too deep now. 

[manc_don]

Really should have taken a few of those chances that were created. Can’t help but think if a proper striker had been in those positions the scoreline would be completely different.

[Jute]

0-0 is decent result but can’t play at home like we did tonight.

[RicoS321]

35 minutes ago, Jute said:

0-0 is decent result but can’t play at home like we did tonight.

I don't think he would in fairness, that was a solid away display. The only criticism was that I think he should have made the attacking changes earlier. They are a decent team, but weren't really on it tonight, and I think you have to take opportunities like that when they arise. We should have gone for it in the last twenty, and I think we might live to regret not doing so later in qualifying. Especially with the way the Greeks seem to be playing. Still, a good point.

[wokinginashearerwonderland]

15 hours ago, Jute said:

0-0 is decent result but can’t play at home like we did tonight.

I know it happens loads in the strange world of football but the whole home/away concept is totally bizarre and 100% psychological.  I would love to have been in the dressing room to hear exactly how Clarke addressed the players last night.

We play Denmark away from home and set out to not lose the game yet we think by playing at home, we are at some sort of advantage, and will play totally differently.  The players, by and large will be the same, the surface, the climate and rules are the same, so why are we treating the games any differently?  This is not like tennis where you might be better at Wimbledon than in Paris because one surface suits your game better than another.  Or in golf where Augusta may suit your game better than a links.  The only difference between Hampden and playing away is really that you have the majority of the support.

We come off the park last night almost celebrating our point as if it is some kind of moral victory where in actual fact, we have not taken any points off Denmark, we are on both on one point and we have in fact lost ground on Greece.  All is really does is put more pressure on the team to win the remainder of the matches.

The ex-hun on the BBC last night kind of eluded to it when he asked Brown and McCann, are you happy seeing Scotland sitting in and parking the bus and you have to wonder.  The Danes won't be playing the way we did last night when they go to Glasgow.  It's almost like we handicap ourselves from the outset.  We have the opportunity to win 3 points, 1 point or no points and before a ball is kicked we take the 3 point option out of the equation straight away.

I always think in these qualifiers that to get through, you need to win a tough game that perhaps you were not expected to win.  If we had been a wee bit braver and come off with a win last night, we would have struck a massive blow to the Danes qualification hopes.  If we had been a little more positive but ended up losing the game, it would probably have meant going all out for the win at Hampden which is exactly how we still have to set up anyway so a point has made little difference.

 

 

 

 

[OrlandoDon]

1 hour ago, wokinginashearerwonderland said:

I know it happens loads in the strange world of football but the whole home/away concept is totally bizarre and 100% psychological.  I would love to have been in the dressing room to hear exactly how Clarke addressed the players last night.

We play Denmark away from home and set out to not lose the game yet we think by playing at home, we are at some sort of advantage, and will play totally differently.  The players, by and large will be the same, the surface, the climate and rules are the same, so why are we treating the games any differently?  This is not like tennis where you might be better at Wimbledon than in Paris because one surface suits your game better than another.  Or in golf where Augusta may suit your game better than a links.  The only difference between Hampden and playing away is really that you have the majority of the support.

We come off the park last night almost celebrating our point as if it is some kind of moral victory where in actual fact, we have not taken any points off Denmark, we are on both on one point and we have in fact lost ground on Greece.  All is really does is put more pressure on the team to win the remainder of the matches.

The ex-hun on the BBC last night kind of eluded to it when he asked Brown and McCann, are you happy seeing Scotland sitting in and parking the bus and you have to wonder.  The Danes won't be playing the way we did last night when they go to Glasgow.  It's almost like we handicap ourselves from the outset.  We have the opportunity to win 3 points, 1 point or no points and before a ball is kicked we take the 3 point option out of the equation straight away.

I always think in these qualifiers that to get through, you need to win a tough game that perhaps you were not expected to win.  If we had been a wee bit braver and come off with a win last night, we would have struck a massive blow to the Danes qualification hopes.  If we had been a little more positive but ended up losing the game, it would probably have meant going all out for the win at Hampden which is exactly how we still have to set up anyway so a point has made little difference.

 

 

 

 

It’s easy to say if we’d been braver, what does that mean? Be more attack minded, push forward more? But then do you get exposed at the back and lose a goal? We also consider a few of these boys aren’t totally match sharp or match fit as they haven’t played much of late, and it’s two games in 4 days. Do we sit in or push up and get back more?

home and away is psychological but not fully. Same reason I’d prefer Aberdeen playing at pittodrie vs away to st mirren, fans, stadium get up, field size, certainly weather and temperature, travel, hotels, wet/dry pitch, length of grass, even type and brightness of floodlights at night, all a factor. Plus home dressing room, food, and home comforts. All adds up to something.
We’re not that different to the team that beat the Danes 2-0 at hampden, different mentality and performance, and a home environment, and given we play them last we may have a very similar need to win.

Edited September 6 by OrlandoDon

[RicoS321]

3 hours ago, wokinginashearerwonderland said:

I know it happens loads in the strange world of football but the whole home/away concept is totally bizarre and 100% psychological.  I would love to have been in the dressing room to hear exactly how Clarke addressed the players last night.

We play Denmark away from home and set out to not lose the game yet we think by playing at home, we are at some sort of advantage, and will play totally differently.  The players, by and large will be the same, the surface, the climate and rules are the same, so why are we treating the games any differently?  This is not like tennis where you might be better at Wimbledon than in Paris because one surface suits your game better than another.  Or in golf where Augusta may suit your game better than a links.  The only difference between Hampden and playing away is really that you have the majority of the support.

We come off the park last night almost celebrating our point as if it is some kind of moral victory where in actual fact, we have not taken any points off Denmark, we are on both on one point and we have in fact lost ground on Greece.  All is really does is put more pressure on the team to win the remainder of the matches.

The ex-hun on the BBC last night kind of eluded to it when he asked Brown and McCann, are you happy seeing Scotland sitting in and parking the bus and you have to wonder.  The Danes won't be playing the way we did last night when they go to Glasgow.  It's almost like we handicap ourselves from the outset.  We have the opportunity to win 3 points, 1 point or no points and before a ball is kicked we take the 3 point option out of the equation straight away.

I always think in these qualifiers that to get through, you need to win a tough game that perhaps you were not expected to win.  If we had been a wee bit braver and come off with a win last night, we would have struck a massive blow to the Danes qualification hopes.  If we had been a little more positive but ended up losing the game, it would probably have meant going all out for the win at Hampden which is exactly how we still have to set up anyway so a point has made little difference.

 

 

 

 

I disagree with the home versus away factor. Scotland are simply very good at Hampden in comparison to not Hampden. It could be psychological, but I suspect that all the things mentioned by @OrlandoDon above do play a significant role. Of course, the weight of expectation can also play a part in the opposing direction, which is why away teams often frustrated the home team to get the crowd impatient. Psychology is a huge factor, and you can't just ignore it because it isn't definable or measurable. It happens, so you play on it or with it. 

I don't think we parked the bus at all, we were disciplined and created several good chances (arguably the better chances). There was a spell near the end where we didn't really get out, but that wasn't the overall picture of the game.

You're completely right about needing to be braver though. I heard a lot about being against the top seed in the group, but last night they were an ordinary team who we could have beaten. Once you're on the pitch, you're no longer playing a seed, you're playing a team and you need to adjust accordingly. We need to take those chances as an when they arrive, as they don't happen often for a team like us. We did that against Spain at Hampden, adjusting in match to pump them when it was clear they were a bit of a mess. The worst thing about Levein's 4-6-0*, wasn't the stupid formation, it was that after fifteen minutes it was clear that the Czech team were not on form at all and we could beat them - the worst thing was that he didn't immediately change it. What happened later was a rejuvenated Czech team turned up at Hampden and beat us. The Danes could be an entirely different prospect at Hampden, and I wouldn't be surprised if we drew or lost that game. That's when the three points would come into play. Or, at the very least, it could have provided a buffer for the other games, just as the Spain result did. I can cautiously go round a golf course playing iron shots (I can't, I'm shite) and be 18 over par, but I wouldn't win a medal. Conversely, I could belt my driver from every tee and maybe finish 25 over, but every so often the risk taking will result in a 12 over and I stand to win something. I couldn't possibly get to 12 over playing simple iron shots, because at some point I'd have to take a risk to hit a green a shot ahead of where I would otherwise. Walter Smith with Scotland was the expert at playing iron shots, and he gloriously failed as a result (a game against an off-form Ukraine sticks in the memory). No risk football doesn't get Scotland through I don't think. Last night was an opportunity to take a risk that was missed. It'll have to come against Greece or a different Danes at Hampden instead. Not the end of the world, just that the opportunity to take the risk might not present itself in the same manner again.

 

 

*Apologies, I tried not to bring it up 

[OrlandoDon]

I think the Greece Denmark score will tell us quite a lot too. Is it a mediocre Denmark that we should have beaten, and opportunity lost, or did we get a really good result and they recover by beating Greece. Ideally it’s a draw.

[RicoS321]

8 minutes ago, OrlandoDon said:

I think the Greece Denmark score will tell us quite a lot too. Is it a mediocre Denmark that we should have beaten, and opportunity lost, or did we get a really good result and they recover by beating Greece. Ideally it’s a draw.

I'm not sure it will tell us more than we could see last night. It could just have been that they don't like playing against our approach, or that they were having an off day, but it was clear that we could have gone at them a bit more last night. I've seen Scotland against better teams under Clarke and seen us play better. I think we got a lot out of the guys on the park, especially Hanley, Hickey and Dykes, but think we could have attempted to win the game with more progressive changes, without going overboard (even simply making the subs before the 83rd minute - especially as Dykes was fucked around the 65th minute mark!).

[dons8321]

4 hours ago, OrlandoDon said:

 

home and away is psychological but not fully. Same reason I’d prefer Aberdeen playing at pittodrie vs away to st mirren, fans, stadium get up, field size, certainly weather and temperature, travel, hotels, wet/dry pitch, length of grass, even type and brightness of floodlights at night, all a factor. Plus home dressing room, food, and home comforts. All adds up to something.
 

Kinda ruined your point by referencing St Mirren who've humped us 3-0 at Pittodrie in the recent seasons and last time could easily have been 6.