Ajja

This was the first game where fans would have been making a decision about paying in to a game since the dark night we shall speak of no more. Hibs game tickets were committed in advance.

I was the guy who pointed Brown out to you in the station. Regards to the game, ally s is pretty much spot on with his assessment. We were more than capable of containing them for the middle section of the game and only felt wobbly in the opening 15 and final 20 when we went to 10 men. When Aluko was going at them and Maguire playing off Miller we looked dangerous. Motherwell were not impressive and didn't look anything like a 'form team'. As I have said before the most depressing thing was the lack of urgency across our team, the negative feeling in the team was palpable.

They are getting results at home but they were not bouncing against Falkrirk in their last game away. I wouldn't assume anything about how this game will go.

Not to mention liking a wee boy to play him off or summink

For me the top 6 discussion is a microcosm of the bigger problem. 3 years ago I felt positive about the idea of regular top 6 performances and the message coming from the club and its management that we aimed for it year on year was most welcome. 3 years later I'm not so turned out by the idea. To keep the enthusiasm and belief running through my veins I need to hear a new target, a new idea of progress. I'm not interested in simple stability anymore. In that 3 year period established top 6 teams like Kilmarnock and Hibs have become very weakened. So called CL finalists like Hearts have lowered there expectations markedly, Rangers have flurted regularly with the trap door into 3rd and increasingly look like a poor version of the team of 5 years ago and even Celtic are struggling to deliver quality consistently. The top of our league has softened and I want to see us take advantage of that. I think with a good management we should be seeing 2nd as a relaistic goal with the mess Rangers are in. That may seem ridiculous but I would like to see us at least talk like we believe in it. Can this apologetic bullshit and talk with some balls.

As bored as I was I neglected to count but I'd say 600 maybe ?

I'd say stagnated rather than backwards. Its hard to argue that we are going forwards and that is what is most worrying for me. I use the word stagnated as I not only think that we are struggling to offer anything more than previous seasons but that the players do not look like they want to change that. To me that means stagnation.

I have pretty much pushed THAT result back to the darkened recesses of my mind now and I really want to see that we can spring back from it. I have been at both our games since then and have been craving a reaction, some sort of spark of hunger, desire or just plain balls out anger from the players. This is that bit that really fucks me up. You only have to look at guys like Mulgrew to see that either the players are not in the least bit hurt, despite what they say in the papers or they are feeling so dejected by the messages that are coming from our support/management/club/media that they have lost the will to perform. Whatever the reasons, our heads are well and truly down and the pathetic little gathering that I stood amongst at Fir Park on Saturday really reflected very badly on where we are at present. Its ugly and I don't like it.

We are still in a strong position in terms of the league and securing Europe but we are doing our level best to toss that away. Its only down to the poor recent performances of UTD and the stuttering form of the likes of Motherwell and Hibs that sees us there. On the plus side, imagine being a UTD fan. You are being tipped as the best of the rest and your manager is being tarted about as the next Rangers or Scotland boss. You are told that week-in-week-out that your team is strong, consistent and can match the OF regularly. Yet you are still sitting in 5th behind an Aberdeen side who are protesting about their manager and deserting their games in droves due to the unacceptable level of football on display.

Aluko for me. He was the only player who had any sense of urgency. Maguire would have been next option.

Pretty decent summary. One thing I would add is that Mulgrew looked like he had no interest again. He drags himself around the pitch like a petulant teenager these days and makes no effort to work at all. In the current climate, its very fucking frustrating to watch. I didn't think Motherwell dominated us as much as it sounds like the radio said. They were pretty ineffective and if we had played Aluko from the start and had Kerr I think we would have beaten them reasonably comfortably.

I'm setting up a donations site to help out. Get in and start the ball rolling. http://www.fundastade.com/feasability/consultation/dragheels/pipedream

Always feels like fucking miles that hike.

Oh please. Deploying such childish plays on words in a thread addressing an important subject says so much about the value of your opinion I'm afraid

As I have stated before, I actually think that McGhee would do an excellent job in the short term. I think he would turn around the squad of players we have and make them a solid side who presented a better brand of football. I have some doubts about his medium to long term prospects however as I suspect he has a similar curse to Calderwood in his traditional management values. I genuinely have no clue as to who we could replace Calderwood with and this worries me. We just haven't got the money or clout to shop uptown and so I suspect we would be forced to take a punt on a young, inexperienced manager. This strategy could work very well or fail catastrophically. I'm just going to go to Motherwell tomorrow, have a few beers with my mates and Padre, support my team and try to forget all about this pish for a few hours.

My own position, and many others I know has been to continually try to understand the bigger picture, the context and the environment we are in. To take into account the competitive market place, the attitude of players in modern football, the role of agents and financial managers, globalisation of football as a sport to try and see that football is not a simple game and to appreciate that hindsight can bring power without responsibility. However, also to avoid being blinkered by a manager who talks a lot (often a lot of shit), operates with traditional management values that are often out of sync, deflects and sidelines opinion when it doesn't suit and lacks any real sense of class or professionalism in his communication. In summary, I have always felt JC was limited but was willing to stick with him until something better was at our disposal. While we are discussing the idea of absolutist points of view and the lack of reasoned discussion can I raise another related annoyance I have. There are fans who have been saying that JC should be given the boot for a few years now. There are fans that are now saying they think he should go who may not have said so a few years ago. I can't be fucked with this idea that somehow these people were 'right all along' and that they had been 'trying to tell us but we didn't listen'. It doesn't mean you were right all along, it means you were less tolerant and less capable of seeing the balanced viewpoint. It means that you were less willing or capable of analysing and assessing and more interesting in knee jerk and hysteria. Fans who are willing to take a step back and view from a wider lens are entitled to shift their opinion on the basis of feeling that the balance is shifting too. If our situation deteriorates significantly (like another cup calamity) then its OK to finally decide you now want change without being made to feel that you were always wrong and that now you have been shown some sort of divine path. Its bullshit and its part of the same childish input that we are constantly exposed to on low grade sites. ....incidently, I didn't vote

I fucking hate protestants

Affirmative

Inevitable that with us facing Motherwell this weekend that McGhee will be questioned on the subject. He is never going to say anything else but we should be wary of assuming he has voluntarily come out with his statement, its more likely just a repsonse to prevocative pre-match interviews.

Did you not tell him that King Billy dropped anchor in poo bay.

Under his stewardship I suspect he might have been right.

It may be a terribly judgemental thing for me to say but in general, 'football people' are not particularly bright and are certainly not often schooled in the art of diplomacy, protocol, respect or general professional conduct off-field.

Very well put and sums up how most of us are feeling I suspect. My personal favourite was this line: Aberdeen grind along delivering solid but unremarkable league results and then twice a season the whole club gets its trousers pulled down in the cups.

I suspect that we have to accept that the quality of communication is not the critical issue here, its all about volume and penetration. Milne, Miller and Calderwood will always have an instinctive reaction to this level of criticism whether it be fans booing, protesting at the doors, spouting on forums or writing letters. They will naturally think 'these people do not understand what is going on at this club and have no real knowledge of how running a football club in todays economic environment works'. This will illicit the same response designed to calm the hysteria as they have no interest in flames being fanned but at the same time they will fire little shots across the bows of the fans to say 'you don't know what you are talking about'. If we want to publicly impress upon the management that its time for a change then the society have gone about ensuring public scrutiny. They may not have written an eloquent and beautifully structured prose in order to achieve it but they have, nonetheless, done so. This letter has the effect of pushing debate to the fore and enforces the club to respond in some way, it also removes the opinion from the terraces and puts it into heart of the club. If the management wish to continue to put up the shutters and deny that there is a problem then they will do so but I believe that this communication makes them look less competent and less committed to 'open discussion' if they choose that route.

Agreed, thats why I have qualified it with the bit about 'respect when you need it most'. My experience as a manager is that being everyones mate can be very effective and can deliver some very good results in the short term or in particular environments or periods. However, when things go a little tit-shaped or there are individuals who don't accept the 'rules' of this friendly relationship then it is very difficult to suddenly take the firm line. You invariably end up doing one of three things: You continue with the mate approach and get run over the top of You cause the employee to be disgruntled as his/her expectations are not being managed consistently You over compensate by wading in too heavily and fall out with them My observations of JC would suggest that all of these factors are in play with various members of the squad at any given time (eg. accusations of 'favourites' coupled with irrational culling of those who dare to question him etc etc) . I think his man management skills are excellent in certain circumstances (one being the position you highlight) however, they are very one dimensional. This leads to an enormous amount of inconsistency in the reaction of players and therefor an apparent rollercoaster of performance on the pitch. I firmly believe it is the root of the problem with him as a manager and goes a long way to explaining why I personally swing from feeling he is the best we can expect to get and wanting to string him up in the nearest tree.