tom_widdows

Bloo toon beats me to it Problem 1 - The clubs only asset to pay for stadium improvements is the land pittodrie sits on. There is barely enough money to cover the upkeep and the bank is not going to jump at the chance to lend more cash. Why do all of you who are digging your heels in about relocating keep ignoring this FACT? Problem 2 - That whackin big car park you mention (and im beginning to hit my head of concrete walls over this) is seperated from the stadium site by a public road. Said road provides access to commercial and residential property aswell as being an emergency services route for the stadium. You cannot just apply to close that (either temporarily or permanantly) and expect it to happen. The amount of neighbour objections would be enough for the council to recommend it for refusal and thats before environmental health & the Roads Department got their hands on it. And if someone re-mentions a tunnel, building over the top of a public road causes major headaches on motorways let alone in a built up urban area. Like it or not the council dont have little interest in helping AFC and will have even less interest if it is going to cause them a headache. The odd shaped car-park to the south east is as you already said to the south east. The boundary only goes to the pitch halfway line. On the other half is now residential/ commercial development. Had the club managed to buy the old gas main then there would be scope to either turn the pitch 90d or shift it several meters south. But in doing that the RDS would need to be adapted/ rebuilt which would jack up the price even more. There is also the fact that if you go for planning permission for any new development you are asked how many existing parking spaces there are and how many new you will be providing. I did a small house extension in Renton and the council demanded the owners give up their front garden and add another parking space (they would also have had to adapt the existing council owned pavement at vast expense). I eventually managed to get a relaxation after a big fight but that was for adding 1 new bedroom and a larger kitchen to a house. What do you think is going to be the response from the council when the club says it intends to reduce the current non-compliant parking allocation? Problem 3 - Caley only lasted half a season at pittodrie. They were back at Caley stadium by January. In those 5months they were not only forking out rent to AFC, the also had to fork out travel expenses for every single game, and were averaging crowds of 1400. They were losing out on Corporate money too as local inverness businesses were exactly keen on a 200mile round trip for a piss up every saturday. AFC relocating to Inverness or Dundee (fuck sake east end park? Perth is the 3rd option) would have a similar effect. For starters the reduction in capacity - Inverness: down 15000 seats, Dens Park: down 10000 seats, Tannadice: down 8000 seats. The loss of corporate income and stadium sponsorship deals. Then comes the rent to our rivals which would barely be covered by the 'home' fans who are now expected to add an extra 120miles to their normal pittodrie trip (and thats only if they live in the city. Even more if they are coming from the shire. Easter Road did not have the problem of developers building lots of new flats in such proximety. The roads around it are also much wider and none of their stands backed onto a main road. They also have a nice deal with the Albion trust to share the carpark behind their new main stand and also thumbed them a few quid in the process. And the other big plus for the hibees is they sold off several players for a few million each so could afford to pay for it all.

Ibrox took 10 years to redevelop (7years to plan & research, 3 years to build). It was also funded by a massive fans initiative and they had the luxury of knowing they would get 40000 punters through the door every second week so sponsorship was basically a given. It was also done at the time when you didn't have to pay your players 1000s per week, werent having your fans poached by excessive TV coverage and they had a nice big site with lots of space around it.

Drew I reckon you should take a trip to a Scottish Planning office. Then take a trip to Aberdeen Licensing board and float the idea of a restaurant and pub in an area which is 10mins drive from the beach leisure and retail parks and full of residents who will jump down the throat of any council member who dares suggest they put so much as a corner shop on their doorstep. Make sure you mention the success of the Broadhill Bar. Then tell me where a club with debts of 10million+ comes up with min 2million per stand over the space of x number of years. Take into account that in the case of the main stand, on top of this 2million design & construction cost the club would need to find and pay for alternative accommodation for the club offices & player facilities. They would also be paying through the nose for traffic management of Pittodrie street (a road closure permit can cost £1000s per day). While the construction was taking place they would be 3600 seats and 24 executive boxes down losing even more income. Some might say the club should redevelop the south stand first but while that happens the club is still paying the maintenance costs of the main stand and would be 8500 seats down. When it was finished it is not ideally placed for any kind of restaurant or shop development and the extra infrastructure required for such things would reduce the space for fans facilities and seating even further. A football club is not the same as a cinema. Cinemas are for everyone. People like cinemas especially when they suddenly find themselves without one - Oban residents recently got their local cinema back up and running. Thanks to modern technology they can also be run on quite a tight budget and with relatively few staff. Football is not for everyone. There are lots of people who would be overjoyed if Pittodrie & AFC and even the whole scottish league vanished. And professional football teams are not cheap. Staff & players wages, Catering costs, Stewards & policing, Utilities for floodlights & undersoil heating etc, stadium maintenance & security, marketing and many many more outgoings all of which need to covered by fans coming through the turnstiles in ever decreasing numbers, relatively tiny handouts from TV companies and the governing bodies and sponsors. Get your high school economics class to research what it cost to run an SPL football team. Then introduce them to health & safety rules, planning processes & building regulations, and good old fashioned debt with a healthy interest rate. Then point out the product they have to turnaround is slowly dying because people would rather pay £40 a month to sit in the warm watching Barcelona & Man United on their big screen TVs than sit in sub zero damp conditions watching the dons play Kilmarnock and co. I reckon some would say 'why are we doing this?' and the rest would say 'fuck off, its a dying business, I'm not touching that' The club is like a pensioner living in a million pound house. Asset rich but cash poor and the heating is getting more expensive every year fuck im depressing myself. Wish this had been brought up 12years ago when I was still in the early years of uni and was yet to experience the disappointment of the real world of construction & businiess

2 questions 1) Who pays for this development? The only asset the club has of any real value is the land Pittodrie sits on. 2) How do you fit 15000 seats into a space which UK building regulations, Planning restrictions, & safety standards and Uefa Rules only allows for approx 7-8000?

We are But eventually Pittodrie will start to follow the likes of Firhill & Palmerston Park ergo have at least one stand which is either unsafe, or too expensive to make safe for spectators. Main Stand will go first followed eventually by the South Stand so we end up with a unique 9638 capacity stadium which only has stands behind the goals.

Imagine what would have happened if Wood hadnt decided to gatecrash the Peacocks arts centre plans Something might actually be getting done to the Gardens right now and the current Aberdeen council might never have been voted in

Blaming Milne for a planning decision is short sighted as far as i'm concerned. If he and the others who were behind Calder park are not currently writing to the DPEA then I might be suspiscous but no matter how many experts, consultants etc you call in to help you the planning system in this country is a nightmare. A building warrant and completion certificate etc can be obtained so long as you are prepared to spend the cash because that is based on rules and regulations. Planning on the other hand is a lottery and all too easy fucked up by outside influence (see Prince Charles' antics). Ive had Councils send us written assurances that Planning permission would be granted only for the matter to be taken out of a planning officers hands and thrown out with very little justification and what happened last night all seems way too familiar. Arguments about improving the areas, facilities, new jobs etc can easily fall on deaf ears if someone just doesnt like the idea. That is why the appeals board was brought in and why you also have the option to go to the Government for a ruling. This does not always result in nice developments - see Aberdeen Beach - but it does reduce the instances of nimby-ism. Sidenote can anyone confirm if the new Union Terrace Gardens actually went for Planning permission as I dont recall this being mentioned. The original scheme did and it was granted. Next the strategy to move from Pittodrie has come about because the stadium is boxed in - we covered this last April - and asides from the fact the club has no cash to spend on redevelopment (I'll assume there will be someone thinking Milne should pay for it out of his own pocket - Jog on if you have those thoughts. Football is a business not a charity. Find an aberdonian Jack Walker and then we might be onto something) any new stand is immediately covered by the latest building regulations and safety standards so the capacities would be drastically reduced. If the club were to dare to approach a bank and ask for loan based on building new stands which will result in a reduction in potential income the they would be laughed out of the room. Milne Running down the stadium you say? Asides from the RDS that stadium was in pretty poor nick before he came along and the club has continued to spend money on maintenance to obtain safety certificates for the other 3 stands. They even actually replaced a large chunk of the main stand roof. If he had announced he was putting the club into more debt to rebuild any one of those stands he would have been crucified plus the bank would have told him to get to fuck. Had he announced he was putting the club into debt to buy the old gas main land at the back of the south stand he would have been crucified and the bank would have told him to get to fuck. What would you have down if you were in his shoes? Now remember you are a businessman who managed to build a small construction empire out of pretty much fuck all, not a euromillions lottery winner. Overseeing the club over the most unsuccessful period since the war is his fault you say? Not the advent of the Bosman Ruling removing a major source of income for smaller clubs? Not the massive influx of TV money which means part time english teams can outspend a scottish team from a fairly large city?Not the excessive TV coverage which has reduced crowds for almost every club as fans would rather watch a premiership or spanish game in the pub or house than go to their local clubs game resulting in the double edge sword of the small clubs putting up the prices to make up for the lost income. Not impatient fans demanding the club fork out silly money and wages on mercenary players who dont give a fuck who they play for or how they perform? Not the Governing bodies for reducing funding for youth teams, cancelling reserve leagues, and bending over backwards to suit the needs of two teams? Not the bizarre rule that football managers etc can do a shite job, get sacked but still recieve a massive pay off??? If it hadnt been Milne it would have been someone else.

was wondering when you would show up again

The word hero gets banded about way to much these days

The Craig Gordon rumour about to gather a little bit more momentum perhaps? or maybe James Mcfadden?

Ingenuity and thinking is a great idea Reekie. I mean thats what has been stopping it all in the first place. Yes Pittodrie could be redeveloped but under current safety standards and regulations for stadium design the capacity would be vastly reduced. Possibly to just over 10000. It certainly wouldnt allow the closure of Pittodrie street (the fact the club dont own said street is a big sticking point). Also what assets do we have to sell off to carry this transformation out? Previous administrations could have made the effort to buy up the land around the stadium to either stop it being boxed in or to sell off for profit later on but given the rumours our 1970s/80s board told the oil companies to fuck off when they offered sponsorship I doubt any of them had the forsight or ambission to even suggest such a move

Does Cove/ Altens have a Tesco's yet?

According to planning regulations NO Stadiums need to meet a certain standard when it comes to access roads and parking etc. Calder Park will be accessed from a shared road which will split the cost of upgrading the existing road and roudabouts between cove and Aberdeen. The several hundred parking spaces in the complex will also be used by the stadium. Take out Calder Park and the stadium master-plan and the feasibility study can be called in to question

here http://www.dpea.scotland.gov.uk/ and failing that you go straight to Alex Salmond and co. If they can force through the shitehole of the beach retail and leisure park then they can certainly have a pop at this one

I reckon 2 & 3 would have been better said by Chic Murray

Hes only 28

My guess is he will be putting forward money from 'The Stewart Milne Group' ie his company so when questioned by tax man etc he can say it was an investment in the local area in an atempt to boost the local economy Money tied up in Aberdeen FC is from Stewart Milne, private citizen. Could be wrong but I seriously doubt hes stupid enough to do a David Murray and use his companies money to fund a football club

Not available in the UK

4,857

RE Union street id say priority 1 should be to knock on the doors of all the landlords/ commercial managers etc with empty shops and say 'Right, either lower your rental rates and activelly seek out a tenant be they local or national business, or sell the unit to the council (or some community trust) for a knock down price.' Seems to me there are too many of these landlords with deals that see them get an income whether their unit is occupied or empty. Union street is fast becoming the next George Street

shhh we're watching the game!

You not been to pittodrie before?

Again

With our physios record I wouldnt be surprised if that was min. 2months