Re: Where do you stand? (JMG,JIG, etc)

[BigAl]

I am in the same place as I have been the past few weekends.

Absolutely raging about the shite on view on a Saturday and angry immediately after the game.

By the time I have slept on matters and am calmed down a bit, I start to think that maybe, just maybe he can turn it around. Can't really quantify how I can justify feeling that way and maybe it is just because I really hope he can but in my heart of hearts I am far from convinced he can.

There is an international break coming up in October and we have three league games and our first European game prior to that. If there is no real signs of improvement and points on the board by then, then I rather feel it is time for change.

Is there anyone in Scotland that I would consider as a replacement, well not really apart from Robinson, who seems to able to polish a turd and get results but the product on offer wouldn't be attractive. Out with Scotland I haven't got a clue, but then as fans that's not our responsibility.

 

[Goldie03]

35 minutes ago, BigAl said:

I am in the same place as I have been the past few weekends.

Absolutely raging about the shite on view on a Saturday and angry immediately after the game.

By the time I have slept on matters and am calmed down a bit, I start to think that maybe, just maybe he can turn it around. Can't really quantify how I can justify feeling that way and maybe it is just because I really hope he can but in my heart of hearts I am far from convinced he can.

There is an international break coming up in October and we have three league games and our first European game prior to that. If there is no real signs of improvement and points on the board by then, then I rather feel it is time for change.

Is there anyone in Scotland that I would consider as a replacement, well not really apart from Robinson, who seems to able to polish a turd and get results but the product on offer wouldn't be attractive. Out with Scotland I haven't got a clue, but then as fans that's not our responsibility.

 

Really fair assessment Al.

For the last few seasons we have collapsed in the autumn and winter then changed our manager. Then we get all excited about the prospect of a new guy coming in and clearing out the players we don't like and who are pish. It was a never ending rollercoaster of emotion. 

So when Thelin csme along and everyone overwhelmingly thought he was a great appointment I genuinely did think we would get some stability. Absolutely gutted it is working out this way and also keep thinking please turn it around as I cannot stand us having another new face in February next year!! 

Hopefully 2 away league games will suit us better!! 

[Elgindon]

Not sure how much its I cant be arsed with another new manager,or the fact he appears to be an intelligent man,and you'd hope he's going to eventually work out what he needs to change, .....is why I'd persist til Xmas and review. The glimmer of hope is that the Elfsborg fans were questioning him into season 2,before he got them going,..and bearing in mind its only a game or 2 that some of the players have been getting used to each other. 

[OrlandoDon]

I think we have quite ‘reasonable’ people here, most of us are willing to give jimmy time as we don’t want to sack a manager every season, plus a rebuild every season doesn’t make sense. Seems most of us are in agreement there. Plus I do think it’s fair to factor in a complete squad overhaul. You can’t throw 20 new players at a guy in 12 months and expect it to be smooth. Every window since jimmy came has been significant change. As I said recently, i think it’s fair that by Xmas we should have an idea of what we are and what jimmy can do.

means little but we’ve been unlucky. Two debatable red cards affected games, prior to the devlin red I felt it was just a matter of time before we scored against falkirk. Against livi we missed a handful of chances, yesterday it was easier for kneuster to score than miss, a devlin header that could easily have gone in or bounced out for a tap in. While we didnt create a lot yesterday, we were unlucky with those two and on another day we’d score 2-3 against livi. We won those games last autumn.

we’re also not conceding a shit ton of goals or seeing opponents miss a ton of chances. At the same time though, I thought we saw a little bit of fear and nervousness at the back yesterday and if this form continues that will get worse.

whats concerning and needs improved asap is our style of play. I see highlights of other teams at the moment and wish we played like that. Even the way motherwell played yesterday, building out the back they were quite tidy, plus their speed of attack, had me wishing we played like that. Hibs play some nice football, hearts too. St mirren. Even falkirk looked decent.

we have to create width, we have to involve our 9, and we have to attack at speed. It’s been far too much sideways and backwards between defenders and midfielders that we are slow and we allow teams to get back and get set. At present we are easy to defend against. So far there’s also little difference between yengi nisbet or lazetic, they have all touched the ball so little, they are rarely involved in our play. There’s many reasons our 9 has to touch the ball and be involved in the play.

where have our attacking fullbacks gone? Devlin and Mackenzie were our best players early last season. Even Jensen was more attack minded last season. That style or tactic has vanished. We’re starting to see glimpses from gyamfi.

im not seeing enough from topi to merit a weekly start. Why are we continuing with polvara as a winger. We’ve spent a fair amount of money, those two decisions don’t sit well with me at present. I def think milanovic and karlsson merit a regular start, maybe milanovic picked up a knock with the aussies? Polvara doesn’t provide pace or width.  I’d like to see Belalovic, gyamfi, or frame given a run at left mid before polvara. 

said it yesterday, wonder if two away games help us where the home team should be more attack minded and give us some more space to attack into, or give us more counter attacking opportunities which gave us some success last season.

 

Edited September 21 by OrlandoDon

[tlg1903]

Defo stay.  I don't actually think he's in any danger at the moment anyway as my feeling is Cormack is committed to the project.  He will know this exact scenario happened at Elfsborg and have far better data on the full in's and outs of this period, indeed a sticky spell like this was probably expected from the off.  All the chat from Sweden when we hired him was "you need to give this guy 2 years before you see what one of his teams is really all about" and, when you consider the investment we have made with him, I think it would be crazy not to see it out.  FWIW I think we will come good under Thelin and I'm happy to give him the season.  For me the team at the moment is like an engine running with little to no oil, particularly when we get to the final third.  Confidence is clearly becoming an issue now as well to compound things but that would go away if we could just fucking start scoring. 

Edited September 21 by tlg1903

[OrlandoDon]

41 minutes ago, tlg1903 said:

Defo stay.  I don't actually think he's in any danger at the moment anyway as my feeling is Cormack is committed to the project.  He will know this exact scenario happened at Elfsborg and have far better data on the full in's and outs of this period, indeed a sticky spell like this was probably expected from the off.  All the chat from Sweden when we hired him was "you need to give this guy 2 years before you see what one of his teams is really all about" and, when you consider the investment we have made with him, I think it would be crazy not to see it out.  FWIW I think we will come good under Thelin and I'm happy to give him the season.  For me the team at the moment is like an engine running with little to no oil, particularly when we get to the final third.  Confidence is clearly becoming an issue now as well to compound things but that would go away if we could just fucking start scoring. 

Agreed, I don’t think he’s in danger. We pursued him for a couple of years, and we’ve gone all in on him. A three yr project was spoken about, and it’s been a total squad overhaul. We’ve allowed him to build his type of player and squad I believe, including signing ex players, you don’t then can the coach. To be honest, I’m sure his start last year was a surprise to jimmy and cormack, and a cup win was unexpected. It’s a three yr project minimum and we’re only starting year two. Add to the fact we’ve signed bilalovic kjarten and frame, all who I think are ones for the future, I think the club is all in on long term jimmy.

Edited September 21 by OrlandoDon

[manc_don]

Hard to really differentiate my opinion from others as I think I’m generally on the same page, though I’ve probably not been as invested this season as I would have due to life being a bit bonkers with deadlines. Much like the team, I didn’t feel ready for the season. 
 

I think the thing that annoys me about Thelin is, is that it appears that he’s not learning the Scottish game. we’re making the same errors week in week out, almost hoping it changes, maybe the opposition will eventually drop the ball and think we can’t continue like this, I only know he’s clearly an intelligent man and I like him and want him to be a success with us, but he needs to make concessions “to the system”. Can’t remember if it was here or elsewhere, but I think the Amorim comparison is a good one. Steadfast despite everything showing the counter. 
 

Orlando. Think you hit it on the head, it’s the style of play that really needs to change, we appear to be turgid and have absolutely no identity. Try play wingers on their correct side, swap by all means to keep the full backs on their toes, then it’s almost a plan b. All the positivity and paper covering is being squandered. 
 

Sort it out, Jimmy.

[tlg1903]

2 hours ago, manc_don said:

Hard to really differentiate my opinion from others as I think I’m generally on the same page, though I’ve probably not been as invested this season as I would have due to life being a bit bonkers with deadlines. Much like the team, I didn’t feel ready for the season. 
 

I think the thing that annoys me about Thelin is, is that it appears that he’s not learning the Scottish game. we’re making the same errors week in week out, almost hoping it changes, maybe the opposition will eventually drop the ball and think we can’t continue like this, I only know he’s clearly an intelligent man and I like him and want him to be a success with us, but he needs to make concessions “to the system”. Can’t remember if it was here or elsewhere, but I think the Amorim comparison is a good one. Steadfast despite everything showing the counter. 
 

Orlando. Think you hit it on the head, it’s the style of play that really needs to change, we appear to be turgid and have absolutely no identity. Try play wingers on their correct side, swap by all means to keep the full backs on their toes, then it’s almost a plan b. All the positivity and paper covering is being squandered. 
 

Sort it out, Jimmy.

I'm prepared to give the system more time, I think I can see what he's trying to do and if he can get it to work I think we will be rosy.  Gegenpress is all about the transitions, well to my lehman eye anyway, and coaching the players to be in the right place on those moments as second nature seems to be the trick to getting it to work. If you need to think about it you're already playing catch up.  That takes time to coach but there are some encouraging signs, defensively we look far better than we did for large parts last season.  Basically, if we are sticking with Thelin we need to trust the process.  The upside is though we have a lot of games coming up and that's exactly what this team needs.  My hope is once we get a win and few goals we will start being a bit more relaxed in the final third and the ample attacking talent that we have can show us what they can actually do. Time will tell. 

[OxfordDon]

I agree with all of the previous posts, but by Christ its getting harder with every game.

[RicoS321]

That did look like a change in system tonight. Nilsen did appear to be deeper than Polvara and Armstrong. Could just have been the angle on the telly. It did look suspiciously like a 4-1-4-1 though. Clarkson would have been perfect for the role that Nilsen played, but it'll now be the last and only time he tries it.

[DantheDon]

Just to put a little bit more perspective on the stats last 32 league games we have won 5, drawn 8 and lost 19. That’s 23 points accumulated which is most definitely relegation form. It’s not like we are getting lots of draws and just struggling to break teams down as we did under Stephen Glass, and during that time the performances have been pretty poor. 
 

I don’t want to just shout sack the manager, like a lot of you I’m really willing Thelin to succeed but I’m not sure this can go on for much longer. Lose or even fail to win one of Motherwell or Dundee prior to the international break and it might be time to make a change. 

[Panda]

1 hour ago, RicoS321 said:

That did look like a change in system tonight. Nilsen did appear to be deeper than Polvara and Armstrong. Could just have been the angle on the telly. It did look suspiciously like a 4-1-4-1 though. Clarkson would have been perfect for the role that Nilsen played, but it'll now be the last and only time he tries it.

Yeh it did look like that. It was clearly designed to get more movement and link-up between the midfielder, winger and full back, and *at times* you could see that, but every combination seemed to have at least one player letting them down, and it never really quite clicked.

It also meant Nisbet wasn't involved at all. Apparently he had only 13 touches in the game. 

 

[RicoS321]

8 hours ago, Panda said:

Yeh it did look like that. It was clearly designed to get more movement and link-up between the midfielder, winger and full back, and *at times* you could see that, but every combination seemed to have at least one player letting them down, and it never really quite clicked.

It also meant Nisbet wasn't involved at all. Apparently he had only 13 touches in the game. 

 

I'm struggling to see why we bought Nisbet. He doesn't fit Thelin's system at all, until you add in the second striker. I knew that when we signed him, so why the fuck did nobody at the club not know that? A director of football would have known that. If we've got stats like "touches per game", and to the extent that you can use that to measure a player's performance, surely we're looking at those and seeing that he had lots more touches when Gueye was in the side than when he wasn't? Or do we only use stats when we're signing European duds?

Cowan, as insufferable as he is, did make a good point about Nisbet's lack of running the channels. He does stay very central, and must be a dream to mark.

Edited September 24 by RicoS321

[BigAl]

Shite as it was, nothing has changed for me, I remain in the same place as I was when I made my post early on Sunday morning. The only thing slightly different is that he now has two league games and one European game to save his job.

I remain far from convinced he'll manage it though.

[wee toon red]

 

For what they're worth, "the stats" show we're a bit better than the league position suggests - if we could only get the ball in the fucking goal! Possibly still clinging to false hope but maybe a bit reminiscent of Hibs last season? BTW I detest xAnything when it comes to football but I'll clutch at any straw I can find right now.

[RicoS321]

26 minutes ago, wee toon red said:

 

For what they're worth, "the stats" show we're a bit better than the league position suggests - if we could only get the ball in the fucking goal! Possibly still clinging to false hope but maybe a bit reminiscent of Hibs last season? BTW I detest xAnything when it comes to football but I'll clutch at any straw I can find right now.

I certainly think that the stats hide a lot, because we look nowhere near fifth place, but do look good enough to finish eighth. The stats will be inflated by the chances we created last night after we'd already thrown the game away for example, which weren't testament to our ability really.

One thing in our favour, though, is that our defence probably isn't as bad as it seems. They are being put under a lot of pressure because of our failure at the other end. It's relentless for them, and there's that inevitability that we'll concede simply because we haven't scored. It's a psychological issue, and one that can be targeted, especially at set pieces. There's zero breathing space for them. 

[OrlandoDon]

Stats don’t need to prove it, but consistent teams have settled teams. On our best run last year we didn’t change much. We didn’t have depth and we over ran some players last year. 
there is no settled team this year. No solid consistent group to build around. Nine games in, how many different midfield pairings and 10 have we had. Midfield is the key, do well we attack and create, poorly and we go on this type of run. Until we find a consistent 3 players to lean on in there, with the odd rest/ rotation, I think we continue to struggle. So far the only one of the three I think merits the start is Armstrong.

[BigAl]

On 21/09/2025 at 07:14, BigAl said:

There is an international break coming up in October and we have three league games and our first European game prior to that. If there is no real signs of improvement and points on the board by then, then I rather feel it is time for change.

 

 

Another week on

Two less games to go

Seriously not looking good

Taking into account European trips, DNA, match tickets, travel I am probably well over a grand spent already on the club this season already.

Value for money doesn't even register.

Can't honestly see him surviving beyond next Sunday

[wokinginashearerwonderland]

I hate knee jerk reactions and always think a manager should get a good 40 games before you make your up mind.

Now that he has had a sustained run of matches I am not sure what benefit it is to keep him in post.

It would be knee jerk in itself to keep him on if he won say 3 of the next 4 because history suggests that he cannot do it over the longer term. 

Usually the argument with a new manager is that we need to give him time to adapt to the league, stamp his style of play on the team and get in his own players. In this case we did well initially and now he has had time to do all of these things, we are horrific.

Just bite the bullet, admit it has not worked and move on.

 

 

[OrlandoDon]

9 hours ago, wokinginashearerwonderland said:

I hate knee jerk reactions and always think a manager should get a good 40 games before you make your up mind.

Now that he has had a sustained run of matches I am not sure what benefit it is to keep him in post.

It would be knee jerk in itself to keep him on if he won say 3 of the next 4 because history suggests that he cannot do it over the longer term. 

Usually the argument with a new manager is that we need to give him time to adapt to the league, stamp his style of play on the team and get in his own players. In this case we did well initially and now he has had time to do all of these things, we are horrific.

Just bite the bullet, admit it has not worked and move on.

 

 

A run of matches? He’s had three windows with significant squad change, and over 20 new players. Add nisbet Armstrong and karlsson, key players, plus lazetic and gyamfi who were injured, these guys have hardly been with us a month. I think giving him to Xmas is fair before we can fealty make comment, but I also think he’s here three years minimum and has been given assurances. Pretty sure we’re not sacking another manager without him being given the chance to completely overhaul the squad, and try to develop a full new group over time.  

[wokinginashearerwonderland]

9 hours ago, OrlandoDon said:

A run of matches? He’s had three windows with significant squad change, and over 20 new players. 

I don't disagree with that OrlandoDon but that is just modern football.  Players don't stick around long now and squads turn over very quickly.  In the last few seasons we have had to significantly change the squad, it is just how modern football works and is going to be the same going forward.    

It's also partly Thelin's own doing that the squad has changed so much.  We have shipped out a lot of players that we could have held onto that are no worse that the new ones we have signed.  I'm thinking MacKenzie, Rubezic, Morris, Sokler, McGrath, Gueye to name a few.  We did stupid things like buying Jensen when our right back was at the time our best player.  

The 3 year thing is just nonsense.  He came here inheriting a squad that had just finished 6th the season before and a strong 6th (if you get such a thing).  Are we suggesting it should take 3 years to be turning that around to be challenging to finish in the top 4?  Thelin has spent a small fortune compared to those before him.  If you want to make a comparison, Hearts finished 6th last season, brought in a new manager 4 months ago and look streets ahead of us.

The problem is if you give him another dozen games, you are probably just kicking the can down the road.  What do you do if he wins 4, draws 4 and loses 4?  History suggests another 4 wins in the next 12 is very unlikely (in the last 26 league games we have won 5).  You're then sitting there with 17 points from 18 games and likely about 2nd or 3rd from bottom.  If you look back to the tail end of last season, it is now 9 defeats and 1 draw from the last 10 league games.  Just not good enough.  

  

[Panda]

Just now, wokinginashearerwonderland said:

We have shipped out a lot of players that we could have held onto that are no worse that the new ones we have signed.  I'm thinking MacKenzie, Rubezic, Morris, Sokler, McGrath, Gueye to name a few.  We did stupid things like buying Jensen when our right back was at the time our best player.  

We tried to keep McGrath and Mackenzie. Morris wanted to go. I doubt we could have offered Gueye* the wages he'll have been offered to go to Turkey. You're talking about being given chances - Sokler and Rubezic were both given more than enough time to show if they were good enough.

*Would Gueye not be classed as a success of Thelin's reign? Got the best out of a guy a lot of people had written off. Same with Morris too. 

[Panda]

It'd be a horrible time to replace the manager.

Now, Hearts made the wrong choice in appointing Neil Critchley anyway, but he arrived on 15 October last year and then had what any new Aberdeen manager would have - no chance to make new signings for three months, and two games a week so little time to work with them on the training pitch and implement his way of playing.

Chances are, we would all be having to say that it's really difficult for the new man and we can't really judge him until after the January transfer window / next season while we struggle for any sort of consistency.

Unless the current incumbent is so inept that you have to change them, I'd say stick with him for now. 

[RicoS321]

10 hours ago, OrlandoDon said:

A run of matches? He’s had three windows with significant squad change, and over 20 new players. Add nisbet Armstrong and karlsson, key players, plus lazetic and gyamfi who were injured, these guys have hardly been with us a month. I think giving him to Xmas is fair before we can fealty make comment, but I also think he’s here three years minimum and has been given assurances. Pretty sure we’re not sacking another manager without him being given the chance to completely overhaul the squad, and try to develop a full new group over time.  

I totally agree. The most frustrating thing is that we could have said this about all of our managers since McInnes left. I just don't get all the "the manager has been backed" crap to be honest, it doesn't make any sense. Backing doesn't come in the form of money, it comes in the form of time (well, both, but I think you get what I mean!). If we're having to overhaul our squad every year, then it's inconceivable that we should also be replacing the manager every year too. Every manager is going to have a season where at least half of the recruits aren't up to it. If that's on top of having a limited squad already, then time can be the only solution. I think our back line mostly had the workings of a decent set of options, with two players in each role that would work (when we inexplicably decided to bring back Dorrington and not ship out Molloy - do one or the other), left back aside. In the midfield, we were going into this season on a hiding to nothing, with Clarkson probably the only player going through a period of improvement, and several players going into regression, or just maybe not being good enough at all (perhaps Palaversa and Polvara). Similarly, the forward line really only had Keskinen as a young player that you might think would kick on. What we're seeing, then, is absolutely inevitable. If you factor in the 50% of signings that turn out to be gash, and the near zero players in the building that would mitigate that, we were always going to be a poorer side than last year without a huge slice of luck. To date, it seems that we haven't got that luck. 

How much of that do you apportion to the manager? Well, it seems like a huge portion, because it appears that we've handed Thelin the keys to the club in lieu of us making the right hires, whilst simultaneously forcing him to play entertaining football and have a single "identity", which we saw failing in Robson, Goodwin and Glass in prior years. So he'll get the full blame, and the sack, inevitably. But who is actually at fault here? It's no coincidence that every manager since McInnes (and even McInnes with his 3-4-3 in the final season) has adopted a "style", which they've persevered with to near the bitter end (Robson still playing like Ramadani was there, months after he'd left? Goodwin playing Ramadani as a holding midfielder for months despite him being terrible at it? Glass passing his way into trouble in an attempt to entertain?), changing it up in the final few games when the writing was on the wall. This is being forced upon managers by the "strategy". They must adopt a playing style, and must implement it up until the point they get sacked because it doesn't actually work. No room for pragmatism. No room for adapting to the actual players in the building. All the while, getting no backing from an experienced tecnical/football director, who can question their decisions, make sure the correct balance of player is coming through the door, and act as a buffer between manager and chairman to ensure that we divert to pragmatism when things don't go to plan in the transfer window. 

We'll never manage to spend our way to success. Our budget is nowhere near high enough to implement a style, because if we get two or three signings wrong, we're down to a level of budget of a Motherwell or St Mirren if they get things right. We have to allow the manager time to be pragmatic, and see if he can adopt that and get himself out of the hole that the club has allowed him to dig for himself.

 

[wokinginashearerwonderland]

1 hour ago, Panda said:

Unless the current incumbent is so inept that you have to change them, I'd say stick with him for now. 

Absolutely agree 100%......but what have you seen in the last year to suggest he deserves more time ain't inept?  

Edited Monday at 12:03 by wokinginashearerwonderland