BobbyBiscuit Posted March 19, 2009 Author Share Posted March 19, 2009 Big deep breath. I said at the start of the season he needed to win something, he wont now so I do think his time is probably up. However, in my opinion, he can walk away with our thanks in that he steadied the ship. One of my biggest fears about JC leaving is the ability of our board to pick an adequate replacement. Judging on past performance, JC aside, we''ll end up as relegation fodder within 18 months. I hat eto say it but better the devil you know? I can appreciate those fears of the team plummeting down the league, but there is no sign of progress at all now. We're the steady eddie's of the league and that's a million times better than we were when JC came in and that is credit to the guy. But we must always be looking to better ourselves and I am really concerned that we're becoming stagnant. Perhaps Seve is indicative of this, he looks a shadow of his former self but will be picked regardless of how many listless performances he has. He doesn't seem too bothered about the fact he apparently runs in treacle most of the time and it is going to get to the point where the fans aren't bothered either. JC sees another top six placing as an achievement. That's sign enough that it's time for him to go. The split puts an artificial value on finishing in the top six and we should have moved away from the mentality of "Must get top 6 spot" seasons ago but apparently we haven't. We can't just trundle on like this. Last night was a disaster of epic proportions (the chance to get to a final without playing either of the OF or Hearts, Hibs or United along the way) and the worst thing is that we have previous of this under JC. That's not good enough. We're as well giving him til the end of the season and he can leave with Nicholl and Clark with our good wishes. I wouldn't be averse to see Jocky Scott returning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TENEMENTFUNSTER Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Calderwood could have won the cup this year and it wouldn't have been enough for some, he could get 3rd and it wouldn't be enough. It hasn't already in fact but I think the majority were prepared to accept some erraticisms for the greater good. That acceptance has dwindled to virtually nothing and I suspect even a (very unlikely) charge for 3rd wouldn't arrest that for most fans. The trouble is (as has been pointed out already) he won't walk, we realistically can't afford to pay him and his team off either. I should also say that one straw appears to have broken this particular camels back but it isn't really, it is a build up of shoddy cup results against what should have been shooty in opposition. But then, we all thought he was god or "the best thing since sliced sunblest" which is as far removed from the truth as can be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wee toon red Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 How little i care about the cup! Yeh its'a good day out but tbh we put far too much onus on it, these days it's pretty worthless other than another way into europe. Can someone tell me the stastics from those entered into Europe via the cup in the last 5/10 yrs and their records in europe? I concur with much of what you say but can't agree with the bit I've quoted. The two cups are our only chance of winning silverware in the foreseeable future and the Scottish is the bigger of the two so it's far from worthless in my eyes. Sure, the league and a top four finish is our bread and butter but I'd dearly, dearly love to get our hands on a trophy every once in a while. I'd take a fifth place finish and a cup win every single season if someone offered it. Football's all about winning things and as I see it a UEFA cup or whatever it's called place through your league finish is only a consolation prize for those who don't win the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jute Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 I wouldn't be averse to see Jocky Scott returning. Dundee fans I know hate Jocky Scott and say he had them playing some dreadful football in his last period in charge and not much has changed this time arround either. As for not caring about the cup!! It is the only chance of winning anything so how can fans not care about winning trophies? Surely they care about their club being successful? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilbobaggins Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 I can appreciate those fears of the team plummeting down the league, but there is no sign of progress at all now. We're the steady eddie's of the league and that's a million times better than we were when JC came in and that is credit to the guy. But we must always be looking to better ourselves and I am really concerned that we're becoming stagnant. Perhaps Seve is indicative of this, he looks a shadow of his former self but will be picked regardless of how many listless performances he has. He doesn't seem too bothered about the fact he apparently runs in treacle most of the time and it is going to get to the point where the fans aren't bothered either. JC sees another top six placing as an achievement. That's sign enough that it's time for him to go. The split puts an artificial value on finishing in the top six and we should have moved away from the mentality of "Must get top 6 spot" seasons ago but apparently we haven't. We can't just trundle on like this. Last night was a disaster of epic proportions (the chance to get to a final without playing either of the OF or Hearts, Hibs or United along the way) and the worst thing is that we have previous of this under JC. That's not good enough. We're as well giving him til the end of the season and he can leave with Nicholl and Clark with our good wishes. I wouldn't be averse to see Jocky Scott returning. Difficult to disagree with any of that. How about asking Fergie's son if he fancies a bash at it though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyBiscuit Posted March 19, 2009 Author Share Posted March 19, 2009 Dundee fans I know hate Jocky Scott and say he had them playing some dreadful football in his last period in charge and not much has changed this time arround either. As for not caring about the cup!! It is the only chance of winning anything so how can fans not care about winning trophies? Surely they care about their club being successful? And if you ask Willie Miller and Charlie Nicholas they'll both tell you he was the best coach they worked under. Difficult to disagree with any of that. How about asking Fergie's son if he fancies a bash at it though? That's a fair shout actually, only thing I reckon may put him off is the comparisons with his Dad's time at the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harcus Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 I reckon Darren Ferguson is destined for bigger and better things than us. I said this at the start of the season, and I reckon it's more than apt now - the whole set up at Pittodrie is stale (or stagnant as BB put it). From the management team to players like Seve, Foster, Mackie and Young, I think a change would be good for the club in the summer. As has been noted, there's no point (and no possibility) of any change happening before the end of the season. I just hope the board have the foresight to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyBiscuit Posted March 19, 2009 Author Share Posted March 19, 2009 As has been noted, there's no point (and no possibility) of any change happening before the end of the season. I just hope the board have the foresight to do it. I think there's a real catch 22 situation here. If we finish the season strongly and get 3rd, it may paper over the cracks and he may be allowed to continue. If we finish poorly he'll almost definitely be punted but none of us want to finish poorly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boboisared Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 I think there's a real catch 22 situation here. If we finish the season strongly and get 3rd, it may paper over the cracks and he may be allowed to continue. If we finish poorly he'll almost definitely be punted but none of us want to finish poorly. Spot on. Don't think Fergusons son is that great a shout to be honest. Has had lots to spend and come see him comnig here to work on a shoe string budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweetchuck Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Been away again the past few weeks: looks like I'm back on here just in time for the mother of all shitstorms. In terms of the Darren Ferguson link, we have no hope whatsoever. They're romping it with Leicester at the top of League 1, and however high an opinion we have of ourselves, the simple truth is that the SPL is an unattractive and uncompetitive league with very little money available to managers. Why on earth would Ferguson want to jeopardise his extremely promising managerial career and the potential of taking Peterborough into the second richest league in the world for the sake of an emotional attachment his old man has to a club which he himself probably has fuck all interest in? Even if he was my son, I'd be telling him to stay put. Eric Black and Mark McGhee seem the most realistic options in terms of who is available and who would be prepared to take on the job, although neither inspires me with a huge amount of confidence. Black would presumably be the cheaper option as he will almost certainly have a managerial release clause in his contract. If we have to stump up for the remainder of JC's contract, the compensation we would need to pay Motherwell for McGhee would be prohibitive. However much I loathe JC being at the club, the simple truth is that unless there is concerted action from the fans - ie. a mass boycott this season or refusal to renew season tickets next year - then he's probably going to be here for the duration of his contract. Unfortunately, the financial climate not only makes sacking him more of a challenge, but also means that non-renewed season tickets will be written off by Willie Miller as being the result of finances as opposed to opposition to JC's ongoing tenure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
??? Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 And where the fuck were Mackie and Smith when it came to penalties??? Was about to say the same where was Mackie Smith and Wright? Jesus f*ck, do you lads actually understand the game of football? Hughes appears to me to be a straight talking but very honest guy. Whether he talks pish or not isn't the issue, This makes no f*cking sense although retarded statements like this are what we've come to expect from you. I used to be quite like JC before today. You've lost weight? It wasn't even hitting the corner flag mate, it was going well wide, I was right in line. Were you sat in with the Dunfermline fans? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jute Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 And if you ask Willie Miller and Charlie Nicholas they'll both tell you he was the best coach they worked under. Good coach but piss poor manager? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyBiscuit Posted March 19, 2009 Author Share Posted March 19, 2009 Been away again the past few weeks: looks like I'm back on here just in time for the mother of all shitstorms. In terms of the Darren Ferguson link, we have no hope whatsoever. They're romping it with Leicester at the top of League 1, and however high an opinion we have of ourselves, the simple truth is that the SPL is an unattractive and uncompetitive league with very little money available to managers. Why on earth would Ferguson want to jeopardise his extremely promising managerial career and the potential of taking Peterborough into the second richest league in the world for the sake of an emotional attachment his old man has to a club which he himself probably has fuck all interest in? Even if he was my son, I'd be telling him to stay put. Eric Black and Mark McGhee seem the most realistic options in terms of who is available and who would be prepared to take on the job, although neither inspires me with a huge amount of confidence. Black would presumably be the cheaper option as he will almost certainly have a managerial release clause in his contract. If we have to stump up for the remainder of JC's contract, the compensation we would need to pay Motherwell for McGhee would be prohibitive. However much I loathe JC being at the club, the simple truth is that unless there is concerted action from the fans - ie. a mass boycott this season or refusal to renew season tickets next year - then he's probably going to be here for the duration of his contract. Unfortunately, the financial climate not only makes sacking him more of a challenge, but also means that non-renewed season tickets will be written off by Willie Miller as being the result of finances as opposed to opposition to JC's ongoing tenure. Should we sack JC he won't be compensated for the full amount of time left on his contract, only a portion of that, I believe. This still may make things prohibitive as far as making a move for McGhee goes, right enough. A lot of what happens could come down to fan and media pressure. Back in the day there would have been a baying mob outside the front door after a result like last night's. It's perhaps indicative of the apathy amongst our support now that this didn't happen. How the local media in particular react to this may also dictate whether he stays or goes. If they turn against him the fans will become more vocal in their protests, when that happens, Milne and Miller will have no choice in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyBiscuit Posted March 19, 2009 Author Share Posted March 19, 2009 Good coach but piss poor manager? Is he a piss poor manager? Look at what happened to us when he left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweetchuck Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Should we sack JC he won't be compensated for the full amount of time left on his contract, only a portion of that, I believe. This still may make things prohibitive as far as making a move for McGhee goes, right enough. Pretty certain we'd liable for the full shebang, unfortunately. From memory, Bilbo knows more about contract law than I do though - he'd be better placed to advise. Racking my brain trying to think of other possible worthwhile names... Feel free to add. Lawrie Sanchez - Unemployed Kenny Jackett - Millwall Roberto Martinez - Swansea City Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jute Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Jesus f*ck, do you lads actually understand the game of football? Sorry just assumed that players who's job it is to score goals would be the obvious choice to put the ball in the net from 12 yards but you of course are right that was a stupid assumption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
??? Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Roberto Martinez - Swansea City No chance... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jute Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Is he a piss poor manager? Look at what happened to us when he left. Not sure but he has not done to much when out on his own. Got Notts County relegated and is struggling at Dundee, which is possibly down to the mess Rae left more than him but still not doing that great. Maybe he is one of these guys who is better as an assistant rather than a manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyBiscuit Posted March 19, 2009 Author Share Posted March 19, 2009 Not sure but he has not done to much when out on his own. Got Notts County relegated and is struggling at Dundee, which is possibly down to the mess Rae left more than him but still not doing that great. Maybe he is one of these guys who is better as an assistant rather than a manager. maybe, but he was Co-Manager with us, and not assistant. I fear it would be Jim Jefferies or Bobby Williamson though anyway. That would be fucking hellish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jute Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Should we sack JC he won't be compensated for the full amount of time left on his contract, only a portion of that, I believe. This still may make things prohibitive as far as making a move for McGhee goes, right enough. Not just JC to pay off though as would need to pay off JN and Clark as well so will still be a fair amount of money to find but still think it needs to be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jute Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 I fear it would be Jim Jefferies or Bobby Williamson though anyway. That would be fucking hellish. Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc_don Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 I think we all know JC isn't going to leave and we can't afford to sack him due to the remainder of the contract. I really thought at half time he would give the players an absolute bollocking, but clearly he cannot motivate his team whatsoever. I keep having replays of that pathetic excuse of a captain's penalty going through my head I don't really know who'd I'd like and as I stated earlier, I think JN would be a good shout but as someone said, he'd probably feel obliged to leave with JC and hopefully SC. That was the worst cup display i've seen since Livingston a few years back under Paterson (even the previous seasons under JC we had a bit more fight about us). It really does worry me that we will end up with shiters like JJ and BW, the board have previous for picking shocking managers, but I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens in the summer. Personally, I don't think getting 3rd is good enough. Willie Miller stated that a cup run was required this season (did he not?) and he has failed to deliver. Questions need to be asked of the management setup and we deserve answers from the club. Sorry if this doesn't make any sense, but i'm still raging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harcus Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Bruce Rioch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kowalski Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 would love craig levien to become manager bt never going to happen Not sure I'd go back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kowalski Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Alan Curbishley? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
️ Come on you Reds! ️
️ Come on you Reds! ️
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