Topic: The Golf Thread

[Ten Caat]

Bizarre comments from Monty. Good God how can he ever compare what looks like being the European team with  the ones of the mid eighties and early nineties containing the likes of Faldo, Ballesteros, Langer, Lyle, Olazabal and Woosnam is beyond belief. And as said earlier, even the team he captained at Celtic Manor would wipe the slate with that of this year's likelies .

I predict a winning margin for USA of 5 points or greater

[Kowalski]

Loved Monty back in the day for the heart on the sleeve attitude but he should have moved overseas and played on the US tour.  Liked too much to be the big fish in the small pond so he could feel like Mr Important and his lack of courage to test himself against the best on a more regular basis cost him his major.

The team Monty captained at Celtic Manor would have wiped the floor with the team that we put out in Paris this year, regardless of who Bjorn decides to pick as his wildcards.

To be fair he was, at times, treated shamefully by some of the US galleries, and he didn’t have the temperament to deal with it. But why bother. I preferred watching the European tour anyway - more variety of courses. I say “preferred” because Golf has sold its soul and I rarely see any of it now.

Still one of he greatest ever Ryder cup players.

[RicoS321]

Still one of he greatest ever Ryder cup players.

Aye, but he's a fat-headed bellend who deserves a club up his hoop.

[kiriakovisthenewstrachan]

I say “preferred” because Golf has sold its soul 

What do you mean when you say that Kowalski, by it being on Sky?

[Kowalski]

What do you mean when you say that Kowalski, by it being on Sky?

Yup. In particular it was poor that the Open went to pay TV. It’ll disappear into obscurity like F1 and cricket.

[LA-Don]

I was always a fan of Monty, but he did come across as an immature sore loser bellend at times, especially didn’t help him that he was a Scot who didn’t sound particularly Scottish. Similar to Sam Torrance and Sandy Lyle, Lyle the better player but big Sam always a fans favorite.

[rocket_scientist]

The bellendness of Cohlin is equal to the bellendness of Sam.

Sandy Lyle is MILES ahead, both in terms of achievement and personality.

Most of Scotland's pro golfers in my lifetime are bellends.

As are many Scots of course but golf has a disproportionately high ratio.

[LA-Don]

The bellendness of Cohlin is equal to the bellendness of Sam.

Sandy Lyle is MILES ahead, both in terms of achievement and personality.

Most of Scotland's pro golfers in my lifetime are bellends.

As are many Scots of course but golf has a disproportionately high ratio.

While I was in my teens at the time I don’t recall Lyle having much of a personality at all. Came up in recent years if I recall when overlooked for Ryder cup captaincy, his ability to connect with people. I was a Lyle fan, my golf childhood hero, but I always felt Sam was favored by fans because he appeared ‘more Scottish’ and was a more likeable guy.

[rocket_scientist]

While I was in my teens at the time I don’t recall Lyle having much of a personality at all. Came up in recent years if I recall when overlooked for Ryder cup captaincy, his ability to connect with people. I was a Lyle fan, my golf childhood hero, but I always felt Sam was favored by fans because he appeared ‘more Scottish’ and was a more likeable guy.

You're correct in that Sandy was perceived - or wrongly misinterpreted to be strictly accurate - as lacking in depth of personality but that of itself is one of the biggest problems in the Scottish psyche.

Some humans respect achievement more than "likeability". Most of us who work in results-based fields don't put a great deal of value in their interpersonal skills when, to be frank in an individual sport and pursuit, it's totally unimportant.

Bob Torrance nailed his own son perfectly. He was always more interested in the fame rather than working hard to get success. A lazy underachieving arsehole in other words.

[kiriakovisthenewstrachan]

Some humans respect achievement more than "likeability". Most of us who work in results-based fields don't put a great deal of value in their interpersonal skills when, to be frank in an individual sport and pursuit, it's totally unimportant.

I think in today's media driven world it is much more important than in the past Rocket.

Sportsmen that are willing to give the press their time and can come across as likeable/approachable generally get a better ride from the media.  Andy Murray has gradually learnt this after a tough start and it seems like on the whole most people now back him and want him to be successful. 

Others who go out of their way to be particularly arrogant and non-compliant with the press are the first ones that the press stick the knife into when things go wrong.  The press have so much influence over how people are perceived by the public that it can make life very difficult if sportsmen don't have them on their side.
 

[kiriakovisthenewstrachan]

Yup. In particular it was poor that the Open went to pay TV. It’ll disappear into obscurity like F1 and cricket.

I agree that it's disappointing when these big events end up on pay TV, sadly money talks.  I remember when the Scottish fitba moved from the BBC to Setanta and I think it was the worst mistake they made.  On the face of it, it looks like our game may be slowly on the up but loss of interest in the game with it being on an obscure channel IMO set us back years.

Has to be said though on the golf that the Sky coverage is light years ahead of where the BBC were with it.

 

[rocket_scientist]

I think in today's media driven world it is much more important than in the past Rocket.

Sportsmen that are willing to give the press their time and can come across as likeable/approachable generally get a better ride from the media.  Andy Murray has gradually learnt this after a tough start and it seems like on the whole most people now back him and want him to be successful. 

Others who go out of their way to be particularly arrogant and non-compliant with the press are the first ones that the press stick the knife into when things go wrong.  The press have so much influence over how people are perceived by the public that it can make life very difficult if sportsmen don't have them on their side.

I think we are in danger of confusing the debate.

This man said it best -  That's been one of my mantras - focus and simplicity. Simple can be harder than complex: You have to work hard to get your thinking clean to make it simple. But it's worth it in the end because once you get there, you can move mountains. Steve Jobs

Media and press attention etc. and how the golfer is perceived is one thing. How they perform is another.

Public opinion matters to those who want to be liked but it doesn't to those with different priorities.

I'm just watching David Drysdale just now. He has had next to NO press attention over the years. It's like you're talking from the perspective of a management company (where public perception can help with sponsorship opportunities) and I'm coming at it as a performance coach.

We were discussing Sandy Lyle, probably the best Scottish golfer in our lifetimes. In fact, there is no question about it, he is. I can assure you that his failure to be selected as a Ryder Cup captain had nothing to do with media portrayals and public perception and everything to do with him as a person. He is basically a shy man who doesn't have the leadership skills that the role requires and therefore how good a golfer he was is of no consequence.

Having said that, I think Thomas Bjorn is a big mistake for that role but really, who else was available? Bjorn is at least popular amongst his peers and yet comes over as drole and one-dimensional in front of the cameras. Like a Scandinavian in fact, if we are allowed a generalism.

[rocket_scientist]

I agree that it's disappointing when these big events end up on pay TV, sadly money talks.  I remember when the Scottish fitba moved from the BBC to Setanta and I think it was the worst mistake they made.  On the face of it, it looks like our game may be slowly on the up but loss of interest in the game with it being on an obscure channel IMO set us back years.

Has to be said though on the golf that the Sky coverage is light years ahead of where the BBC were with it.

Mixed messages here.

It is a disaster for golf in the UK that the BBC have been trumped by Sky. This is the biggest mistake of judgement the R & A have ever made so whether the presentation is better, light years better, the same or worse is unimportant. It is the limited exposure and the vastly-reduced TV audience numbers that will accelerate the already declining - and in my opinion, terminal - trend.

[kiriakovisthenewstrachan]

I think we are in danger of confusing the debate.

This man said it best -  That's been one of my mantras - focus and simplicity. Simple can be harder than complex: You have to work hard to get your thinking clean to make it simple. But it's worth it in the end because once you get there, you can move mountains. Steve Jobs

Media and press attention etc. and how the golfer is perceived is one thing. How they perform is another.

Public opinion matters to those who want to be liked but it doesn't to those with different priorities.

I'm just watching David Drysdale just now. He has had next to NO press attention over the years. It's like you're talking from the perspective of a management company (where public perception can help with sponsorship opportunities) and I'm coming at it as a performance coach.

We were discussing Sandy Lyle, probably the best Scottish golfer in our lifetimes. In fact, there is no question about it, he is. I can assure you that his failure to be selected as a Ryder Cup captain had nothing to do with media portrayals and public perception and everything to do with him as a person. He is basically a shy man who doesn't have the leadership skills that the role requires and therefore how good a golfer he was is of no consequence.

Having said that, I think Thomas Bjorn is a big mistake for that role but really, who else was available? Bjorn is at least popular amongst his peers and yet comes over as drole and one-dimensional in front of the cameras. Like a Scandinavian in fact, if we are allowed a generalism.

Of course, as a sportsman you would always wish to be the guy holding the trophy instead of just being the fans favorite.  However in this day and age I think that being popular with the press and public can often have a big impact on success or lack of it.

Where these modern players in golf, fitba, tennis, whatever, are constantly in press conferences, doing interviews and involved in the social media world I reckon being hated does no one any good whatsoever and especially during the bad times.  Popularity with the press buys you a little more time before the vultures turn on you during a bad spell and having the crowd on your side can often make a massive difference to the outcome. 

Back on Sandy Lyle, I honestly think he was just a little unlucky at missing out on Ryder Cup captaincy because there were so many candidates of about the same age.  By the time Faldo, Woosie, Langer, Seve, Olazabal, Monty and Torrance had a go Sandy was just a bit too detached from the main tour by then to figure.  One of those was likely to miss out and he was the unlucky one.

[kiriakovisthenewstrachan]

Mixed messages here.

It is a disaster for golf in the UK that the BBC have been trumped by Sky. This is the biggest mistake of judgement the R & A have ever made so whether the presentation is better, light years better, the same or worse is unimportant. It is the limited exposure and the vastly-reduced TV audience numbers that will accelerate the already declining - and in my opinion, terminal - trend.

No mixed message - shame the Open is now on Sky but if you are willing to pay for it the coverage is great.

The game has been on it's knees for the last few years, it will pick up again.  Losing one week's golf in the year to Sky will not be the end.

[rocket_scientist]

The game has been on it's knees for the last few years, it will pick up again.

What do you mean by this and what's going to change for it to "pick up again"?

Losing one week's golf in the year to Sky will not be the end.

The Open on BBC inspired many great champions. It's not just "one week". It's the pinnacle of the game.

[LA-Don]

You're correct in that Sandy was perceived - or wrongly misinterpreted to be strictly accurate - as lacking in depth of personality but that of itself is one of the biggest problems in the Scottish psyche.

Some humans respect achievement more than "likeability". Most of us who work in results-based fields don't put a great deal of value in their interpersonal skills when, to be frank in an individual sport and pursuit, it's totally unimportant.

Bob Torrance nailed his own son perfectly. He was always more interested in the fame rather than working hard to get success. A lazy underachieving arsehole in other words.

I think this brings us back to Tiger. Never liked the guy, always thought he was a cunt, always wanted him to lose, much like my feelings towards England and the old firm. All came down to disliking him, no other reason than I though he was a prick. Super player though. Same with Steve Davis and Nick Faldo, but in later years I’ve totally flipped on them and like them both. Much like Andy Murray, both put the effort in to be more likeable and saw the value in that. I’d say I’m a typical fan who values likeability, it is ‘entertainment’ after all and most people like the guys they want to win. Funnily, my tennis childhood hero was MacEnroe, another cunt!

[rocket_scientist]

I think this brings us back to Tiger. Never liked the guy, always thought he was a cunt, always wanted him to lose, much like my feelings towards England and the old firm. All came down to disliking him, no other reason than I though he was a prick. Super player though. Same with Steve Davis and Nick Faldo, but in later years I’ve totally flipped on them and like them both. Much like Andy Murray, both put the effort in to be more likeable and saw the value in that. I’d say I’m a typical fan who values likeability, it is ‘entertainment’ after all and most people like the guys they want to win. Funnily, my tennis childhood hero was MacEnroe, another cunt!

Well that's one view I guess. I never wanted anyone to win or lose at golf. I reckoned the golfing gods would determine the winner and I was happy just to watch the drama unfold.

As a teenager, I loved McEnroe and I wanted him to win too but as you said, it had nothing to do with "likeability". I don't agree that he was a cunt though. He was passionate and determined, qualities I could relate to. Seve was a total cunt who despised women but that didn't matter to my appreciating his art.

The true champion is dedicated to his craft. The PR and media stuff is just shite.

[LA-Don]

My opinion is basically that of a kid, Davis Lyle Faldo MacEnroe etc were all athletes I knew of in my childhood. Although as an adult I thought Woods was a prick and I’ve seen enough of MacEnroe over here that he’s a bit of a tool too. As kids I think we go by likeability, as adults some of us form opinions based on personality, likeability, ability, respect etc.

Wanting people to lose is a trait most Scots have I think, wanting England to lose, the old firm etc. we’re a miserable lot really. I’d relate it to wanting the underdog to win, so you do want the favorites, in turn, to lose.

[kiriakovisthenewstrachan]

What do you mean by this and what's going to change for it to "pick up again"?


The Open on BBC inspired many great champions. It's not just "one week". It's the pinnacle of the game.

Golf club member numbers have been plummeting for years now and it's mainly due to the time a round takes not because Sky have the TV rights.

There are a lot of new ideas being tried to get more people playing the game again, shorter formats, rule simplification etc and in time it will help interest in the game to pick up again.

The Open is the pinnacle of the game, yes, but it is basically the only golf that the BBC has had left since losing the Masters properly to Sky three or four years ago. So what I mean is that if there was only one week's golf on mainstream tele anyway then losing it is not the be all and end all.

Let's face it. There is no fitba on TV unless you pay for it but the game is not dying because of it. If you want to watch it you will pay for it otherwise you will be a miserable bastard and moan about it.