Time for his own topic

So it's no longer who is going to be our next manager and now it's all about Jim Goodwin

Firstly welcome to the good old ship Aberdeen FC.

Barely has the ink dried on the contract and straight down to work and in the dugout for today's game, like your style, no taking the easy option out and sitting in the stand leaving it to Robson & Co.

If you're half as successful as the last couple of managers who came straight from St Mirren To Aberdeen you'll do for me

Good luck Jim.

It's a disgusting statement, quite frankly. Everyone knows that the place to back your manager is on national radio, whilst abusing Kenny McIntyre.

I wouldn’t understate the involvement of our American directors in this. Cormack has managed to grift £1m+ out of each of them with promises of high returns from player sales and European competition revenues and has squandered probably in the region of half a million sacking his chosen management team after 11 months and paying compensation to St Mirren for their replacements, we’ve issued an annual financial report showing significant operating loss and now he’s back again after another 11 months looking for a further significant sum to fire Goodwin & co. I highly suspect they’ve told him to bolt and make do with what we have as the league position is still salvageable. They won’t give 2 shiny fucks about a one-off game against Darvel, it makes little difference from a return on investment point of view. Having worked with lots of blue sky thinkers like Cormack, his statement reads like he’s just been given a complete arse kicking in the board meeting and he’s making a futile attempt to look like he’s in charge.
 

Some interesting analysis on Goodwin v Glass using data that I don’t understand and therefore must be super clever:

 

19 minutes ago, Slim said:

Some interesting analysis on Goodwin v Glass using data that I don’t understand and therefore must be super clever:

 

The thing is though, that I never ever felt like we'd take a beating under glass. We generally controlled the games. Just not in the right area a lot of the time.

If we're now going on a game-by-game basis, can we change the countdown clock at the top of this forum to read "Goodwin's Dons career".

34 minutes ago, Slim said:

Some interesting analysis on Goodwin v Glass using data that I don’t understand and therefore must be super clever:

 

Aye I'm a big fan of JJ, (I said JJ you cheeky bastards).  
 

What he says there show we should have stuck with Glass. I'm convinced it would have improved had he been given the summer transfer window.

The board appear to have realised a year later that they made a mistake, and are now thinking if they stick with Goodwin they won't be repeating that mistake.

I do think we're a defender or two away from having a good team. But we'll still fall short against well coached teams because Goodwin isn't good enough.

 

We are the SPFL version of Everton, aren’t we?

7 hours ago, Slim said:

Some interesting analysis on Goodwin v Glass using data that I don’t understand and therefore must be super clever:

 

On the plus side this means our goalkeeping must be quite good.

7 hours ago, Panda said:

Aye I'm a big fan of JJ, (I said JJ you cheeky bastards).  
 

What he says there show we should have stuck with Glass. I'm convinced it would have improved had he been given the summer transfer window.

The board appear to have realised a year later that they made a mistake, and are now thinking if they stick with Goodwin they won't be repeating that mistake.

I do think we're a defender or two away from having a good team. But we'll still fall short against well coached teams because Goodwin isn't good enough.

 

It doesn't really suggest we should have stayed with Glass in particular, but that we should stay with a manager (any manager) who is trying to force a certain style (entertaining, ken?) on a team. 

The stats back up what we've been saying all season really, that our approach to games is high risk and the personnel aren't up to implementing the plan. What JJ suggests, and I completely agree with, is that we simply can't afford the type of player that can do what we're asking (I don't think there's a manager that could get that out of any players we can afford either). It's extremely rare for us to find a player without a deficiency in one or more areas of their game that make the entire plan fall down unless we're up against inferior opponents. As I mentioned yesterday, Stewart is absolutely key to me in what we're trying to do and he's so far removed from having that ability to move the ball quickly and also operate high up and quick enough to cover. I find it extremely hard to believe that Stewart had better stats than David Bates in that regard, which suggests something completely flawed in our data collection between leagues. A visual check should have confirmed that he was a good penalty box defender. Ramadani is also key playing in front of the defence, especially when on his own, which he has been. He's clearly not good enough to cover for the two other midfielders in the 3-1-4-2 or 4-1-4-1 that we operated this season (plus bringing the worst out of Barron), he doesn't have the strength or speed to do such a difficult job. Our terrible expected goals against, without taking into account the score within games is not a particularly useful metric. The various games we've won at home by several goals all included a huge number of chances for the opposition - those are just games in which our high risk approach worked, and you could effectively discount those (when comparing to Glass I mean).

There are a couple of things that will make or break us for the rest of the season. Shinnie is a massive signing that will allow us to play with more intensity. We'll have to sacrifice the single holding midfielder and play two, which will also allow us to comfortably play a four. Stewart is actually crucial too. If we can't get a replacement this month (and I agree with the assessment that we shouldn't just sign anyone), he needs to stay fit and free from red cards. Perversely, we're still a significantly better defensive unit with him in the team than not (see Hertz game). It's another high risk approach, but I don't see another option at the moment. Finally, we need to make a decision on a front man to lead the line. For me it has to be the traditional number 9 in Miovski, with Duk replacing from the bench. None of the shoehorning a disinterested, lazy, unfit Duk into left of a three. He doesn't have the consistency or reliability required. Get proper wingers playing on their correct sides to hit the line and fire it in and let Miovski do what's required.

Just now, Panda said:

What he says there show we should have stuck with Glass. I'm convinced it would have improved had he been given the summer transfer window.

I do think we're a defender or two away from having a good team. 

 

Glass was hopeless and should have been sacked earlier than he was.  It was clear very early on he was nowhere near good enough to manage Aberdeen.

We are not going to be a good team just by signing a couple of defenders.   Watch back the game from Monday night.  The attitude was wrong.  No one fancied it.  No fight.  No desire.  No professional pride.  We'd just been beaten 5-0 by Hearts so you would think they would have gone out with a real point to prove.  There were a few times early on that our players basically pulled out of proper tackles.  Nobody looked bothered they were getting embarrassed by part time players.  There are no leaders.  I said it after the Rangers defeat at Ibrox and it was the case again in the home defeat a couple of weeks ago and the last couple of games, the team is mentally weak and has no bottle.  Can you imagine Scott Brown accepting defeat so easily if he had been there on Monday night? He would have been kicking players up in the air in the first 5 minutes. The Stewart situation epitomises this what this team is all about and I actually feel sorry for the lad.  I do wonder if there is a better player in there and things might have turned out differently if he had not been burdened by the stupid decision to make him team captain.     

 

Was out last night from 6pm until midnight at a Burns Supper with much alcohol involved so just getting around to catching up on this now.

To be honest when I got the first message telling me about this statement, my initial reaction was one of disbelieve, by the time the next came in from a different person I thought holy shit.

Regardless of what you think about whether the club should have kept him on or not, frankly I find the wording of it absolutely extraordinary and isn't exactly a ringing endorsement of belief in Goodwin's ability to turn things around but more like we know you're shite, just not shite enough yet for us to sack you. 

The phrase "dead man walking" has been used numerous times in the last few weeks and basically that's pretty much the jist of the statement. I'd love to be proved wrong and for Goodwin to do a Neilson and turn things around like he did when Farts fans were screaming for his head, but unfortunately I just don't think it is going to happen. If the last couple of games were the players fully supporting Goodwin and vice versa, god knows what depths we're going to sink to, when they throw in the towel 🤔 

50 minutes ago, wokinginashearerwonderland said:

Glass was hopeless and should have been sacked earlier than he was.  It was clear very early on he was nowhere near good enough to manage Aberdeen.

We are not going to be a good team just by signing a couple of defenders.   Watch back the game from Monday night.  The attitude was wrong.  No one fancied it.  No fight.  No desire.  No professional pride.  We'd just been beaten 5-0 by Hearts so you would think they would have gone out with a real point to prove.  There were a few times early on that our players basically pulled out of proper tackles.  Nobody looked bothered they were getting embarrassed by part time players.  There are no leaders.  I said it after the Rangers defeat at Ibrox and it was the case again in the home defeat a couple of weeks ago and the last couple of games, the team is mentally weak and has no bottle.  Can you imagine Scott Brown accepting defeat so easily if he had been there on Monday night? He would have been kicking players up in the air in the first 5 minutes. The Stewart situation epitomises this what this team is all about and I actually feel sorry for the lad.  I do wonder if there is a better player in there and things might have turned out differently if he had not been burdened by the stupid decision to make him team captain.     

I suspect Stewart offers a lot off the pitch and he seems to have a good attitude. I think it's his ability holding him back to be honest. In terms of Brown, it's a very good example. We were weak as anything while Brown was in the team latterly. The confidence a captain gives is through his performances first, attitude second and a player like Brown - who simply wasn't good enough anymore - walking around screaming has an equal affect to a Stewart. Shinnie was the man for the job against Darvel, but it seemed to me like Goodwin just didn't get the connection between bringing on a player with guts and determination to win a game, rather he thought he could win it by bringing on attacking flare alone (he thought we'd simply be too good). He assumed we didn't need a Shinnie-like player against inferior opponents, which was hugely misjudged. In fairness, Shinnie looked a little off the pace against hearts too, which I guess is understandable given he wasn't featuring every week previously. Shinnie is a proven leader that sets the tone, guys like Hayes, McRorie and Clarkson have the attitude too (McKenzie and Kennedy probably too, just lacking in ability again). Shinnie aside, we lack that player who is head and shoulders above the rest who doesn't need to shout the team through a game.

We don't have many leaders, but I'm not sure how much that would have helped on Monday. The role of a leader on the pitch is to motivate people and make sure everyone is following instructions but you need to have a gameplan first for that to make much difference.

A lot of our passages of play on Monday ended with Stewart trying to launch raking passes to nobody, McCrorie tanking it down the wing like a rampaging water buffalo, or something similarly daft that any manager worth their salt would have told them in no uncertain terms not to do. The movement from our attacking players was non-existent at times. Duncan looked lively but was trying to win the game by himself. All of this while we were supposedly trying to build from the back and dominate possession.

That's the way teams play when they aren't receiving clear instructions from the manager and they're just trying to wing it. If we want to dominate games then there needs to be a coherent system/strategy in place where everyone understands their role. The leadership on the pitch stuff comes after that but it's not a substitute for it.

1 hour ago, sancho_panza said:

We don't have many leaders, but I'm not sure how much that would have helped on Monday. The role of a leader on the pitch is to motivate people and make sure everyone is following instructions but you need to have a gameplan first for that to make much difference.

A lot of our passages of play on Monday ended with Stewart trying to launch raking passes to nobody, McCrorie tanking it down the wing like a rampaging water buffalo, or something similarly daft that any manager worth their salt would have told them in no uncertain terms not to do. The movement from our attacking players was non-existent at times. Duncan looked lively but was trying to win the game by himself. All of this while we were supposedly trying to build from the back and dominate possession.

That's the way teams play when they aren't receiving clear instructions from the manager and they're just trying to wing it. If we want to dominate games then there needs to be a coherent system/strategy in place where everyone understands their role. The leadership on the pitch stuff comes after that but it's not a substitute for it.

sancho_panza, we were playing Darvel not AC Milan. It was not about a game plan on Monday it was 100% about attitude.  It was a game that the manager should have been able to just leave the players to get on with it without even needing a team talk.  No exaggeration to say that our reserve team should be beating Darvel, they are part time players training a couple of times a week.  A leader on the pitch would have made a massive difference.  Falkirk will thrash them in the next round.  

The whole "the team needs a leader". It needs leaders, plural.

Scott Brown got criticised last season for somehow not being able to motivate everyone around him. But one man can't motivate a whole team. See Willie Miller the captain v Willie Miller the manager.

We have a young team, but that's no excuse, they're not all teenagers. McCrorie I think showed why he isn't captain material yet - he was motivated, but he also goes into a bit of a sulk when it's not going well, his body language is wrong. Being fired up and being able to motivate those around you are two different things.

Stewart didn't want the ball, was scared in possession. I was stood next to where he essentially was positioned  in the second half. The Darvel fans were shouting "you're shite Stewart" every time he got the ball and you could see it was getting to him.

The confidence in the team is not there. 

What the fuck seriously. We weren’t that bad pre World Cup, then we had a month to train with pretty much the entire squad. How did this go so badly???

Gone

31 minutes ago, OrlandoDon said:

What the fuck seriously. We weren’t that bad pre World Cup, then we had a month to train with pretty much the entire squad. How did this go so badly???

Turns out Roos actually was "vital to Aberdeen's strategy".

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/sport/football/aberdeen-fc/4713421/kelle-roos-vital-to-aberdeens-strategy-of-playing-out-from-the-back-says-boss-jim-goodwin/

47 minutes ago, OrlandoDon said:

What the fuck seriously. We weren’t that bad pre World Cup, then we had a month to train with pretty much the entire squad. How did this go so badly???

I’d love to know what went wrong in Atlanta. 

10 minutes ago, manc_don said:

I’d love to know what went wrong in Atlanta. 

Hemmin, what happens in Atlanta, stays in Atlanta.

Should have been sacked after the hun game at pittodrie where we were 2-1 up against the scum in the dying seconds of the match and some how lost 2-3. Glad he has gone but the problems still remain.

6 minutes ago, orion_1885 said:

Should have been sacked after the hun game at pittodrie where we were 2-1 up against the scum in the dying seconds of the match and some how lost 2-3. Glad he has gone but the problems still remain.

That certainly seemed to be the point at which the rot started. I'm not sure it's prudent to bin the manager at the first unacceptable capitulation! There's always a bit of a period where you have to have the shite show, just to be sure. Darvel should have done it, of course, even hearts.

He should have been emptied after Hearts. Borderline incompetence he was given another two games after that. 

He should have been sacked after Dundee United 4-0 in all honesty. Was obvious that day he couldn't cut it.

10 minutes ago, Panda said:

He should have been sacked after Dundee United 4-0 in all honesty. Was obvious that day he couldn't cut it.

100% agree.