glasgowdon Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Muppets on the Hat still saying we need to get rid of Young and Foster despite them being our better players this year. Fuck sake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harcus Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Muppets on the Hat still saying we need to get rid of Young and Foster despite them being our better players this year. Fuck sake. It fits a 'Jimmy's dross' agenda, despite the team increasingly looking like 'McGhee's team' for the want of a better phrase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsr Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 What? Young is not a good football player, he's put in decent performances at times its true but a couple of fluke goals doesn't cover up the fact he's not good enough for anything other than mid table dross. Foster has improved but long term he's got lots of flaws in his game. It doesn't matter if its Jimmy or Mark's dross now as they both seem to rate them judging by public comments, either way the folk that slated those players are right! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edinburghdon Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Young was one of the only players to get pass marks last night, was heavily involved in our best and pretty much our only good move the whole night. He's been playing well and deserves his place much more than some others on show last night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggy89 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 How long is McGhee's contract, 2 years? It has to be left to run, not only because he is the incumbent and getting rid would mean throwing good money after bad, but because he has to be given a chance to sort HIS mess out. We're not going to be relegated and as was said countless times, before and after Calderwood's departure, it's a waste of money for a club so heavily in debt to throw money away sacking and hiring managers who have time on their contract to run, unless there is a significant risk of relegation. Yes I would like to see us win a cup but we are a middle of the road SPL club not significantly better or worse than most of our opposition when you add in to the mix teams of a lower standard going on a "cup run" the chances of winning a cup are average to minimal at best. Again, I've said it before the Hibs model is the one to follow, and I still believe that is what the board were trying to achieve in offering Jimmy the 3 year deal i.e. get some compo for when a Championship club came in for him following the Euro run. Maybe if we can get some cash money for some of our youngsters we can start to clear our debt because that is the only way we will ever get back to a level where we are able to compete, again. Maybe the board have seen in McGhee the ability to bring on the youngsters but not to spend on new players (another point I've raised on several occasion is McGhee poor track record with HIS signings). Then again Calderwood wasn't ever really allowed to spend either (when you look at the figures, according to soccerbase, Jimmy had a net transfer spend of -£555000). Regardless of the rights or wrongs of Jimmy's departure, Mcghee has to be given the length of his contract. If by June 2011 we have had another two season without a cup win and two successive bottom 6 finishes,but we have 2 or 3, 19 to 23 year olds with a couple of season left to run on their contracts who are generating interest of around £2-4 millon each. I'd guage McGhee's tenure to have been a success. As "we" on here argued at the time of Calderwood's departure there is no short term fix, it is will be a long drawn out process repairing the damage Milne's Chairmanship of the club has done. I say don't become a reactionary and lose sight of that now, but at the same time everyone has the right to criticize where it's due and we'll keep on with the "told you so(s)" they are the least we deserve. After-all we certainly don't have the team we deserve . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madbadteacher Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 For one, I don't mind if we miss the top six this season, especially if we get to Hampden. Rather that that stagger to 5th and be frustrated at missing out on Europe. It's fairly obvious to me that the team is being rebuilt.....just not as quick and as successfully as MMG wants, or us, but I am still optimistic we will be better for it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc_don Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 How long is McGhee's contract, 2 years? It has to be left to run, not only because he is the incumbent and getting rid would mean throwing good money after bad, but because he has to be given a chance to sort HIS mess out. We're not going to be relegated and as was said countless times, before and after Calderwood's departure, it's a waste of money for a club so heavily in debt to throw money away sacking and hiring managers who have time on their contract to run, unless there is a significant risk of relegation. Yes I would like to see us win a cup but we are a middle of the road SPL club not significantly better or worse than most of our opposition when you add in to the mix teams of a lower standard going on a "cup run" the chances of winning a cup are average to minimal at best. Again, I've said it before the Hibs model is the one to follow, and I still believe that is what the board were trying to achieve in offering Jimmy the 3 year deal i.e. get some compo for when a Championship club came in for him following the Euro run. Maybe if we can get some cash money for some of our youngsters we can start to clear our debt because that is the only way we will ever get back to a level where we are able to compete, again. Maybe the board have seen in McGhee the ability to bring on the youngsters but not to spend on new players (another point I've raised on several occasion is McGhee poor track record with HIS signings). Then again Calderwood wasn't ever really allowed to spend either (when you look at the figures, according to soccerbase, Jimmy had a net transfer spend of -£555000). Regardless of the rights or wrongs of Jimmy's departure, Mcghee has to be given the length of his contract. If by June 2011 we have had another two season without a cup win and two successive bottom 6 finishes,but we have 2 or 3, 19 to 23 year olds with a couple of season left to run on their contracts who are generating interest of around £2-4 millon each. I'd guage McGhee's tenure to have been a success. As "we" on here argued at the time of Calderwood's departure there is no short term fix, it is will be a long drawn out process repairing the damage Milne's Chairmanship of the club has done. I say don't become a reactionary and lose sight of that now, but at the same time everyone has the right to criticize where it's due and we'll keep on with the "told you so(s)" they are the least we deserve. After-all we certainly don't have the team we deserve . Fantastic post Baggy We told you so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDU_64 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 What? Young is not a good football player, he's put in decent performances at times its true but a couple of fluke goals doesn't cover up the fact he's not good enough for anything other than mid table dross. Foster has improved but long term he's got lots of flaws in his game. We are mid table dross. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandaldinho Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 We are mid table dross. yes but WHO's dross Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDU_64 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 yes but WHO's dross Mark McGhee's! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilbobaggins Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Vast improvement is needed but we also need to circle the wagons. Let's support out manager guys, otherwise we are just huns with better teeth. And jobs. Except for Mini. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TENEMENTFUNSTER Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 I want McGhee to be a resounding success. No-one wants that more than I do. I wanted Alex Miller to be a success, Roy Aitken, Ebbe, Pele and JC. It's just not looking very good for that just now does it? But let's give him time. We can afford to blow a season as a training exercise can't we? In a "results business" we can afford to just let it slide can't we? I would hate to think folk wanted rid of McGhee at all at the moment but at the end of the season . . . . . One more thing, folk saying they'll forgive a shite league position for a cup final. For fuck sake. Looking at a bright side that doesn't even fucking exist yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Padre™ Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 I've said this time and time again, sacrificing our league position for a cup run is completely hollow. Look at united under Golac, a cup victory then relegation. Which competition gave a true indication of the team they had become under a poor manager? Strong league finishes are our bread and butter, cups are little more than a nice day in the sunshine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebus30 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Think he was always going to need a season to see how much he needed to change the team. As long as we make the top six and get through to at least the next round of the cup then I will be happy with the team for this season. Going on the last couple of performances, a top 6 place would be a nightmare turned into a dream come true .. . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rocket debris Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 Cue knee jerk reaction accusations... Not a knee jerk reaction thread, no? Thursday. McGhee is like a producer. He didn't cast or costume nor design the set. He didn't even write the script and doesn't own the theatre. As your first response said, the problems at AFC are beyond the producer. The fact that the problems are various yet repeating over a significant period of time should provide a clue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Padre™ Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 Not a knee jerk reaction thread, no? Thursday. McGhee is like a producer. He didn't cast or costume nor design the set. He didn't even write the script and doesn't own the theatre. As your first response said, the problems at AFC are beyond the producer. The fact that the problems are various yet repeating over a significant period of time should provide a clue. That's possibly the worst analogy, ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandaldinho Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 That's possibly the worst analogy, ever. spot on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capitalsharpie Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 My humble opinion is that it is too early to judge MM. MM has been in the press stating how frustrating it is for him to have a squad in which he doesnt have the depth for players to compete for places, thereby players stagnating in positions. I do however think that after a couple of transfer windows have been and gone, this situation will at least have started to be rectified. As we have chuff all cash for players, it has to be patients all round with this. Some of these poor performances by our senior players are beginning to make me wonder if a couple of them think that at some point they will be on thier way out. Im thinking about MM comments post league cup pumping at the start of the season here. To my mind, this is why JC brought in players like Duff. OK, not by any means a wonder player, but capable enough to challenge a few players in one or two positions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggy89 Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 Not a knee jerk reaction thread, no? Thursday. McGhee is like a producer. He didn't cast or costume nor design the set. He didn't even write the script and doesn't own the theatre. As your first response said, the problems at AFC are beyond the producer. The fact that the problems are various yet repeating over a significant period of time should provide a clue. As Padre says a poor analogy made even poorer because half of it is crap. If I can attempt to follow you; So McGhee is "like" a producer, OK. So, on to the cast (I'm guessing the players), four of the members are his, Ifil, Fyvie (we all know Jimmy would never have played him ), Patterson and MacLean. The last two were put in without so much as a "rehearsal". Not sure what you're on about with the costume? I'm going to guess design the set is the formation, well that's McGhee's, unless we're suggesting Jimmy came in the dressing room before hand and told the players to play differently? The script?, well, McGhee has had 7 months now to adapt the script to his liking and get the cast to learn it. Surely not too much to ask from an average fitba manager let alone the messiah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggy89 Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 My humble opinion is that it is too early to judge MM. MM has been in the press stating how frustrating it is for him to have a squad in which he doesnt have the depth for players to compete for places, thereby players stagnating in positions. I do however think that after a couple of transfer windows have been and gone, this situation will at least have started to be rectified. As we have chuff all cash for players, it has to be patients all round with this. Some of these poor performances by our senior players are beginning to make me wonder if a couple of them think that at some point they will be on thier way out. Im thinking about MM comments post league cup pumping at the start of the season here. To my mind, this is why JC brought in players like Duff. OK, not by any means a wonder player, but capable enough to challenge a few players in one or two positions. This isn't the EPL it's the SPL where are the funds coming from to pay for two potential first choice players for each position. He'd be as well moaning in the press that he hasn't got the funds to sign Ronaldo and Messi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rocket debris Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 As Padre says a poor analogy made even poorer because half of it is crap. If I can attempt to follow you; So McGhee is "like" a producer, OK. So, on to the cast (I'm guessing the players), four of the members are his, Ifil, Fyvie (we all know Jimmy would never have played him ), Patterson and MacLean. The last two were put in without so much as a "rehearsal". Not sure what you're on about with the costume? I'm going to guess design the set is the formation, well that's McGhee's, unless we're suggesting Jimmy came in the dressing room before hand and told the players to play differently? The script?, well, McGhee has had 7 months now to adapt the script to his liking and get the cast to learn it. Surely not too much to ask from an average fitba manager let alone the messiah. So obsessed with protecting your coffee morning mentality, you miss the point completely. It doesn't matter if it's MM or JC if the script doesn't work or the theatre-owner doesn't give a fuck. I never said MM was the messiah. You make shit up. But to start a thread blaming McGhee for our present predicament is not knee jerk, it's being blind. It's not working. Blaming MM or JC is stupid, like you lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggy89 Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 So obsessed with protecting your coffee morning mentality, you miss the point completely. It doesn't matter if it's MM or JC if the script doesn't work or the theatre-owner doesn't give a fuck. I never said MM was the messiah. You make shit up. But to start a thread blaming McGhee for our present predicament is not knee jerk, it's being blind. It's not working. Blaming MM or JC is stupid, like you lot. All this ^^ does is highlight the ineffectualness, of your metaphor. As usual you are the only person able to decipher your rambling nonsense. And what the fuck is a coffee morning and what is it's mentality?? I agree, if you care to read the thread in full, that to blame McGhee for the altogether mess is folly, but by the same token blaming JC for it last season was equally folly. Only problem now is that same mess is seven hundred odd thousand pounds bigger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rocket debris Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 All this ^^ does is highlight the ineffectualness, of your metaphor. As usual you are the only person able to decipher your rambling nonsense. And what the fuck is a coffee morning and what is it's mentality?? I agree, if you care to read the thread in full, that to blame McGhee for the altogether mess is folly, but by the same token blaming JC for it last season was equally folly. Only problem now is that same mess is seven hundred odd thousand pounds bigger. Try not to look intelligent by using alternative vocabulary. The ineffectualness of your thinking is patent. Hey, how about this for an idea? Debate the problems. It's all the manager's fault is it? Look at the history. Look at the trends. Think outside your thimble-sized box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_min Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 Try not to look intelligent by using alternative vocabulary. The ineffectualness of your thinking is patent. Hello irony. How are you feeling today? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TENEMENTFUNSTER Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 Try not to look intelligent by using alternative vocabulary. The ineffectualness of your thinking is patent. Hey, how about this for an idea? Debate the problems. It's all the manager's fault is it? Look at the history. Look at the trends. Think outside your thimble-sized box. I think the manager has a lot of the blame and responsibility now. I think the chairman shoulders most of the responsibility historically. Though I suspect your history may not stretch that far back somehow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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