Superstar Tradesman Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Vidal, Mair, Seve (who is very much a CH now) and Foster. Not that hard, is it? So Vidal is a player now is he? Why has Mulgrew dropped out? Shouldn't we be playing a settled side? Etc, etc....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyBiscuit Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 So Vidal is a player now is he? Why has Mulgrew dropped out? Shouldn't we be playing a settled side? Etc, etc....... Excuse me? Who said he wasn't a player? Playing him in his correct position would be a fucking start, no? Yeah, Mulgrew too, so we actually had options to play a back four. EDIT: Pretty hard to play a settled side when we have injuries and suspensions, no? Fucking idiots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Tradesman Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 I'm just showing how easy it is to pick holes after a game or look for reasons to suit an ill informed agenda. We lost one game to Falkirk, 1-0, the first since nineteen-oatcake, after a long unbeaten run. Yet some people think it's the end of the world. Big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyBiscuit Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 I'm just showing how easy it is to pick holes after a game or look for reasons to suit an ill informed agenda. We lost one game to Falkirk, 1-0, the first since nineteen-oatcake, after a long unbeaten run. Yet some people think it's the end of the world. Big deal. Are you trying to say I have an ill-informed agenda? I refer you to this post: I don't agree that we "were very much punching above our weight". If that's the case, we wouldn't have got a result against them last season and had several good results against the huns in recent seasons. I fully admit of course that in the grand scheme of things Celtic will beat us more than we beat them but I think terming our victory as "very much punching above our weight" does our players a dis-service and gives too much credit to a comparitively very poor Celtic side. I said on here at the weekend that we'll now probably go and beat Hearts at Tynie next week such has been our ability to bounce back under JC after a setback like Saturday's. But, there does have to come a point where he shows more faith in his side. We are a better side than Falkirk, of that there is no doubt so let them worry about us. If we start the game in our usual formation and they're dominating, then change it then. I know on this site we are generally opposed to the JMG'ers, but that doesn't mean we can't say the guy got it wrong on Saturday. We all make mistakes, there's no shame in admitting it. We are susceptible to these sort of results, I fully understand that, but there does come a point that for the sake of our progression they have to be ironed out. We have been doing really well, but we always have to be aiming for better. By the sounds of it, most of our players just didn't turn up on Saturday and that isn't JC's fault and shows how inconsistent our players can be. But give them a chance, play a consistent formation which will only help them find the required level of consistency over the long term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Tradesman Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 My posts wasn't aimed at you or anyone in particular but you seem to have taken a bite. JC has came out in the papers and admitted he got it wrong and it was his tactics to blame for the loss. What else can he do but learn from that? Every week we seem to be breaking records under JC. Last week we were beaten by Falkirk for the first time in decades, the week before it was a Celtic hoo-doo that got smashed, then there are the Huns who went a whole season without beating us at home and then there's Queens Park and Queen of the South. Some good, some terrible. But those will be broken or forgotten about sooner or later. I'm happy to look at the league table and see we're up there challenging for Europe again and I fully expect to be come the end of the season. Amazing really when you consider the "tinkering", "tombola", "players being played in the wrong position", "not playing a settled side", "strange formations", "buffoonery"………….. repeat for the next few seasons until you can finally say "I told you so". (again BB, this isn't aimed directly at yourself) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyBiscuit Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 My posts wasn't aimed at you or anyone in particular but you seem to have taken a bite. JC has came out in the papers and admitted he got it wrong and it was his tactics to blame for the loss. What else can he do but learn from that? But this is why people are upset. It has been shown in the past that when he goes with 3 at the back we generally do not do well at all. Mistakes are fine as long as we learn from them, but he doesn't seem to learn that we can not play three at the back. So what makes you think that he's going to learn from it this time, when he's not learned from it several times before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CtS Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Jimmy must go. Mackie must go. Foster must go. Clangers must go. Young, Mair and Duff must go. Willie Miller must go. Stewart Milne must go. Pittodrie must go. Fuck it, AFC must go, then I can go and support a proper club that win every week. Like Manchester United. I think some people (again not aimed at you particularly BB) need to have a wee think about why they support Aberdeen at all. One bad result, regardless of who's "fault" it was, will not break our season. We get on with it, look forward to the next game, and hope for a better result against Hearts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggy89 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 My posts wasn't aimed at you or anyone in particular but you seem to have taken a bite. JC has came out in the papers and admitted he got it wrong and it was his tactics to blame for the loss. What else can he do but learn from that? Every week we seem to be breaking records under JC. Last week we were beaten by Falkirk for the first time in decades, the week before it was a Celtic hoo-doo that got smashed, then there are the Huns who went a whole season without beating us at home and then there's Queens Park and Queen of the South. Some good, some terrible. But those will be broken or forgotten about sooner or later. I'm happy to look at the league table and see we're up there challenging for Europe again and I fully expect to be come the end of the season. Amazing really when you consider the "tinkering", "tombola", "players being played in the wrong position", "not playing a settled side", "strange formations", "buffoonery"………….. repeat for the next few seasons until you can finally say "I told you so". (again BB, this isn't aimed directly at yourself) I don't think the folk who complain about players playing out of position, the team adopting different formations, have to "repeat for the next few seasons until you can finally say I told you so", they are proved correct every time there is a performance like last Saturday. Incidently I disagree with the comments regarding Aluko playing out of position, he is the one player we have, that IMO, can play anywhere across the midfield and up front. Young players will have dips in form. The worrying thing for me is he's not being rested to counteract this and worse is being played through an injury (and folk blame the medical staff at the club for our players endless injuries). And yeah people make mistakes and have off days, this is the first time I have heard Jimmy admit to any in the public domain (probably a good job Andy Considine wasn't playing ). I hope he realises what the mistakes are and rectifies them. Self awareness and an inability to admit to mistakes (in the past) seem to be his downfall and are certainly the two main things that irk me about him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Tradesman Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 But this is why people are upset. It has been shown in the past that when he goes with 3 at the back we generally do not do well at all. Mistakes are fine as long as we learn from them, but he doesn't seem to learn that we can not play three at the back. So what makes you think that he's going to learn from it this time, when he's not learned from it several times before? Ach, dinna give me that, I still touch paint that's got a 'Wet Paint' sign over it and have been doing that since I was a kid. You don't give up driving just because you fail your first test do you? Circumstances may change, variables come into play, you might have an off day and then there's lady luck as well. JC may well have tried and failed with 3 at the back but depending on the opposition or injuries it may well have worked. But like you said, it hasn't been very successful and he's came out to the papers and actually said these exact words which makes me think the message has sunk in this time. Had it worked, no doubt he'd have been "lucky". The man is doing a good job, it's just a shame some people can't see this and enjoy the rollercoaster ride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CtS Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 And regardless of tactics, if we'd taken our chances on Saturday we would have won the game despite being very poor over all. Keep the faith lads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntbear Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Considering the lack of investment in recent times from up above, Jimmy has done well to make us solid challengers for 3rd spot. I don't really consider this the time to be panicking and sacking people... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilbobaggins Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Considering the lack of investment in recent times from up above, Jimmy has done well to make us solid challengers for 3rd spot. I don't really consider this the time to be panicking and sacking people... 100% agree with this. I think he should be at least allowed to see out his contract to give him a chance of winning us something. The only thing to change that would be him being poached or being sacked for being in 9 or 10th place after, say, February. However, if he doesn't win us a cup or get us to a cup final in the duration of his current contract I think we should all shake hands and look elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoney Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Lack of investment? tell me another manager who has jimmys budget to work with......outside hearts and the OF - he spent the most money in the summer too outwith those clubs? spending more then twice as much as what united, and the other teams are around us. Always said calderwoods first couple of seasons were nothing short of exceptional - even our 6th place under him was an achievement considering we were still playing really good football, infact up untill november 2006 the job he was doing was amazing...................then the calderwood from dunfermline appeared and started all the jiggery pockery, a better manager would have had us closer to second that season, not scraping for europe which should have been wrapped up in january. In my opinion had another manager came in last season and built on jimmys (early) good work we would be a lot better off. Until we bring in a better manager AFC will continue to plod along accepting anything higher then 7th and cup semi finals as an achievement. The only argument anyone can provide against this is.........would you like to go back to relegation contenders again gafaw gafaw well whos to say thats going to happen? There are managers in this league (infact 8 of them) working with budgets much much lower then ours and achieving the same things, some achieving more - look at the list of cup finalist and cup winners over the past 8 years. Why arnt aberdeen on that last and why havnt we won a trophy in 14 years? You wont have to look to far for the answer to that question. The way the old firm were playing against us last season if we had reached a cup final (which we should have at least one of them anyway) we would have had some chance probably even won it, after going to celtic and beating them at parkhead, rangers with one eye on the eufa cup..........big chance missed - probably the best we are going to have. But thats niether here nor there of course - east fife on saturday, the journey begins again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CtS Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 I still haven't heard any JMG'ers come up with a name for this "better" manager. And as for the other 8 in the spl, there's not one of them I'd choose over Jimmy Calderwood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoney Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Not even levein who despite having calderwoods budget is doing a far better job. Look at uniteds record in the cups since he became the manager. He also did a very good job at hearts (not saying he didnt have a good budget at hearts) but i would have more trust in players a manager like lavein would take to the club then calderwood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CtS Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 OK, Levein is maybe on a par with Jimmy but his sides have still won the same as us - fuck all. His record against us is impressive but we have consistently finished above Utd in the league during Calderwoods time here. I couldn't agree that he's doing a "far better job". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoney Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Ok maybe a slight exageration - but considering the differance in budgets i think lavein has done a better job, granted he has won the same as jimmy (i.e. feck all) but at least they have had the chance - we have had not yet - and its getting frustrating knowing how good a team we have here and how well we can play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Tradesman Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Always said calderwoods first couple of seasons were nothing short of exceptional - even our 6th place under him was an achievement considering we were still playing really good football, infact up untill november 2006 the job he was doing was amazing I must have missed this post. ...................then the calderwood from dunfermline appeared and started all the jiggery pockery, a better manager would have had us closer to second that season, not scraping for europe which should have been wrapped up in january. So a good manager would have taken a team from 6th to wrapping Europe up by Xmas? Even your beloved Sir Alex couldn’t turn round United that quickly. In fact, I’d be surprised if anyone in our league other than the O.F. has ever wrapped up Europe by January. In my opinion had another manager came in last season and built on jimmys (early) good work we would be a lot better off. Whimsical. Until we bring in a better manager AFC will continue to plod along accepting anything higher then 7th and cup semi finals as an achievement. Who is accepting ‘better than 7th’? Even those you term as the JIG squad is fully expecting us to be third placed this season after being run all the way by that technical legend of managerial wizardry - Harry Potter. The only argument anyone can provide against this is.........would you like to go back to relegation contenders again gafaw gafaw well whos to say thats going to happen? There are managers in this league (infact 8 of them) working with budgets much much lower then ours and achieving the same things, some achieving more - look at the list of cup finalist and cup winners over the past 8 years. Money doesn’t guarantee success. Just because we have a pocket full of coppers more than some of the other teams in the league, it doesn’t mean we should be light years ahead of them. Mark Hughes has gazillions to spend yet he’s struggling, Harry Rednapp is going all out with the cheque book and he’s staring at relegation, Eddie Thompson was throwing cash at United and it got him nowhere and then there’s Hibs who are making millions from selling their players each season. We’re running a tight ship and to suggest we’re throwing large sums of money at the football side of things is ridiculous! Why arnt aberdeen on that last and why havnt we won a trophy in 14 years? You wont have to look to far for the answer to that question. The way the old firm were playing against us last season if we had reached a cup final (which we should have at least one of them anyway) we would have had some chance probably even won it, after going to celtic and beating them at parkhead, rangers with one eye on the eufa cup..........big chance missed - probably the best we are going to have. Bad luck, simple as that. You've been knocking JC for not winning fuck all and saying his league placements and European exploits mean fuck all without anything to show for it but then you're applauding Levein for doing just that. We’re looking like a force again who should be challenging for Europe and should be getting to the later stages of cups each season. Of course there’s always going to be slip ups, nobody is ever going to win every game they play. But I’d far rather be edging closer to that each season than a flash in the pan cup win like the other teams in the league who do fuck all the season after a trip to Hampden. But thats niether here nor there of course - east fife on saturday, the journey begins again Quite possibly the most optimistic thing I’ve ever seen you write. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoney Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 I must have missed this post. Well do a search - i have always admitted that calderwoods first two and a half years were great for the club - and we were playing really really good football - why he stopped doing this is beyond me. If we went back to that i would be 100% behind calderwood. So a good manager would have taken a team from 6th to wrapping Europe up by Xmas? Even your beloved Sir Alex couldn’t turn round United that quickly. In fact, I’d be surprised if anyone in our league other than the O.F. has ever wrapped up Europe by January. We were playing well the season before, i said that didnt I? that even though we were 6th we were playing really well. We continued to play really well for the rest of 2006 until we seen the birth of the 6-4-0 away to rangers and the birth of the 4-5-1 at home games. Maybe we wernt good enough for 2nd pipe dream maybe, but hearts managed it - and we were a better team then hearts. Who is accepting ‘better than 7th’? Last season it was deemed ok when it looked like that was the highest we would finish Even those you term as the JIG squad is fully expecting us to be third placed this season after being run all the way by that technical legend of managerial wizardry - Harry Potter. Not saying levein is a "great" manager - but he is doing a great job, and he does have calderwoods tactics sussed. Money doesn’t guarantee success. Just because we have a pocket full of coppers more than some of the other teams in the league, it doesn’t mean we should be light years ahead of them. Mark Hughes has gazillions to spend yet he’s struggling, Harry Rednapp is going all out with the cheque book and he’s staring at relegation, Eddie Thompson was throwing cash at United and it got him nowhere and then there’s Hibs who are making millions from selling their players each season. We’re running a tight ship and to suggest we’re throwing large sums of money at the football side of things is ridiculous! Very true, a lot of hard work still has to go into it, but it is undoubtadly a massive advantage to be able to pay top class (on their day) players like smith, miller and (to a much lesser extent) severin the money that has kept them at aberdeen. All the afore mentioned teams have made a lot of money selling players, they can afford to do this, they have very good youth set ups (discluding united) and make a large amount of revenue from this. We cannot afford to keep spending double what other teams are just to be slightly ahead of them. Surely a better sollution would be to get another manager in and see what he can do with the extra money? Bad luck, simple as that. Queen of the south and united were not bad luck - just bad tactics, long has the argument been down to luck of the draw, yet we have only ever played the old firm once in the last few years? how easy do the the draws have to be in order for us to win a cup? You've been knocking JC for not winning fuck all and saying his league placements and European exploits mean fuck all without anything to show for it but then you're applauding Levein for doing just that. as above - not saying the league placings arnt impressive but after we finished 3rd and we made so called improvements to the team surely we should have run away with it last year? or at least reached a cup final? nobody was be-littling the european run, i said at the time if we had played the same way agains loko and pana as we did against copenhagen and bayern (i.e. actually attacked) we could have had a better placing in the group and avoided bayern - we showed we can compete with the best when we go at them. Didnt we? or did i just dream that? We’re looking like a force again who should be challenging for Europe and should be getting to the later stages of cups each season. Of course there’s always going to be slip ups, nobody is ever going to win every game they play. But I’d far rather be edging closer to that each season than a flash in the pan cup win like the other teams in the league who do fuck all the season after a trip to Hampden. I would rather finish 8th this season and win the scottish cup then finish 4th and get into europe that way - just my opinion like - would always take a cup win ahead of league placing. Quite possibly the most optimistic thing I’ve ever seen you write. Im always optimistic and im always positive - i believe this team is a lot better then what some fans give us credit for, i believe that the man at the helm doesnt get the best out of the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Tradesman Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Maybe we wernt good enough for 2nd pipe dream maybe, but hearts managed it - and we were a better team then hearts. Heart shipped in a bunch of internationalists who then were sold on for millions at a time. They're now millions in debt to the bank and that flash in the pan isn't something anyone should be aspiring to. Not saying levein is a "great" manager - but he is doing a great job, and he does have calderwoods tactics sussed. He's doing a great job of finishing below us each season and still not lifting any silverware. Levein's tactics of hoofing the ball up to big men at the front would have you falling asleep each Saturday and well you know it. I would rather finish 8th this season and win the scottish cup then finish 4th and get into europe that way - just my opinion like - would always take a cup win ahead of league placing. I'm greedy and ambitious, I want us to finish 3rd and win a cup. "It's fans like you that's willing to settle for mediocrity that's holding us back". I fully expect JC to take us to such a position but I'm just not expecting it to be an overnight thing like the JMG mob who want a quick fix. Im always optimistic and im always positive - i believe this team is a lot better then what some fans give us credit for, i believe that the man at the helm doesnt get the best out of the team. That team wouldn't be playing for Aberdeen if it wasn't for the man at the helm. Simple as that. The players rate him, pundits rate him, other managers rate him. It's about time you guys who are splitting the fanbase realise it. Let's start by not calling for his head every time we loose the odd game against Falkirk after a couple months on a run of wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TENEMENTFUNSTER Posted February 5, 2009 Author Share Posted February 5, 2009 Exactly ST, everybody seems to rate him except a very vocal minority of AFC fans. You know what they say about empty vessels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc_don Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 I think that my stance lies with both of you. Call it sitting on the fence if you will but I think both ST and Stoney (I feel dirty ). I fully acknowledge that the majority of the players at AFC currently would not have considered signing for the club without JC being at the helm, however there are a number of occassions he does seem to fails to get the best out of them on a consistent basis. We should be aiming for 3rd season in season out AND winning a trophy. I think its got to the stage whereby I would take an 7th place position to get a Scottish Cup. But I do not think that this squad wouldn't be able to achieve both 3rd AND a cup. We clearly have the squad to do this, they just need to apply themselves better. I do not buy this pish that JC spouts at times about his time coming to an end at the club. He is yet to achieve the winning of a trohpy. He has done great things for the club, and I am grateful for this, but he needs to win us a trophy, and then I will not begrudge him a move away from us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntbear Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Lack of investment? tell me another manager who has jimmys budget to work with......outside hearts and the OF - he spent the most money in the summer too outwith those clubs? spending more then twice as much as what united, and the other teams are around us. So Derek Riordan only cost Hibs 100k.....dream on! The argument is also f*cking stupid - it doesn't matter what we send in relation to other clubs - it's what we spend in relation to our takings, which last year >£1M - what did we spend - about £200k THAT is lack of investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAl Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Is this the same Harry Potter that had the arabs calling for his head on a platter after his teams run of somethingl ike one win in eighteen over the end of last season start of this season I accept he has turned his fortunes around BUT football is indeed a funny game and they can reverse around just as quick. Lets review the merits of Levein v Calderwood at the season end and not before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TENEMENTFUNSTER Posted February 5, 2009 Author Share Posted February 5, 2009 Is this the same Harry Potter that had the arabs calling for his head on a platter after his teams run of somethingl ike one win in eighteen over the end of last season start of this season I accept he has turned his fortunes around BUT football is indeed a funny game and they can reverse around just as quick. Lets review the merits of Levein v Calderwood at the season end and not before. That would not suit the "argument" though Al, the ever swirling, ever moving goalposts that Calderwood will never hit for these cunts. How often has Levein finished ahead of Calderwood since he took over at United?? I think Levein is a very good manager but would Leicester fans agree with that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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