tom_widdows

Lets see now. A club in the 3rd largest city in Scotland which on several occasions a season can bring in crowds of 20000 even when they are losing should cut their capacity thereby reducing arguably their largest potential income stream I would love to seem them (or indeed any other business) approach potential sponsers/ funders with that business plan. If there was ever an example of Scottish lack of ambition. RDS The only 'modern' stand in the stadium but it was built before UEFA started their bullshit pitch size regulations. To allow for European matches to be played the pitch had to be lengthened which fucked up the sight lines from the Upper Tier so from certain seats you struggle to see the goal line. South Stand Im 6ft 4 and yet there is only one occasion I can remember seeing a player take a corner from the South stand/ RDS corner flag. That was the first ever 'away' spl match against Caley Thistle when I took the opportunity to watch the Dons from the away section. In my younger days I couldn't see about 1/4 of the pitch thanks to the segregation fences. It is also rapidly becoming a death trap (see my post about stadium design about 40 pages ago) Merkland Supporting pillars, shallow angle and as with the south stand if you sit in the front rows you get neck-ache having to look up due to the height of the pitch and the drainage profile. Circulation is not quite as bad as the South stand but it is still poor Main Front section is the only place you get a decent view but you also get very wet. Rear section - pillar central Designed for the days when wood & asbestos were the materials of choice and people were apparently max 5ft5. Only the RDL has the unrestricted views of a modern stadium. The small away supports are due to Pittodries facilities? Well having sat in the away section I can see why. 1/3 of it is uncovered, there is no windshield from the north Sea elements, the fence blocks your view of the south/ merkland corner flag and there are barely any catering facilities or enough toilets. There is also the 'Aberdeen is miles away' mentality. Perth is OK, Dundee at a push but that last 60miles? no chance What other teams forums are actually discussing the new Dons stadium any more than 'i see the sheep are trying to move'? Please provide links to these discussions as I am actually interested to see their thoughts and also the people saying they wont go because of having to use a shuttle bus. What is a myth? That trying to understand the PA announcements from the centre of the pitch is extremely difficult? That noise from one stand is barely audible from another due to the open nature of the ground? White Hart Lane (before they started dismantling it) springs to mind. Totally enclosed and steep angles having the fans pretty much on top of the players. The low roof with no open corners contained and circulated the noise and you didn't need a sell out crowd or everyone singing to build the atmosphere. Modern stadiums design includes acoustics, something which was not considered 115 years ago when the main stand was built, or when they bolted seats and quick roof over the south stand. So you are indeed correct. Staying at pittodrie will mean NOTHING changes No the answer is YOU have decided they wont. Where does it say the ticket prices will increase? How do you know that this ultra modern stadium wont allow the club to charge £22 per ticket which includes a free ticket on the shuttle bus. How do you know that the ticket prices may increase to say £25 but you get a 'free' snack & drink & shuttle bus ticket with it? A disaster will be when the Safety certificate for the Main Stand is revoked. A disaster will be when the Capacity of the South Stand is cut in order to obtain the safety certificate or eventually closing altogether when inadequte pre war foundations finally lose their battle with the sandy soil. Do you know how much it costs to underpin or even replace foundations? These are genuine threats and no matter how much money the club spends on maintenance there will come a time wont be able to get around the ever evolving health & safety regulations. Here's a case for moving stadium To redevelop pittodrie the following costs/losses will arise 1) No immediate capital from selling pittodrie to developers. 2) Loans taken out to pay for the re-building of 3 stands. The new stands will have to allow for future pitch expansion (UEFA did it once, they can easily do it again) modern emergency access, crowd circulation, toilet & catering facilties, corporate. The foundations for these new stands will be more expensive due to the sandy soil. The club will need to approach investors, funders, banks etc with a business model that shows they are cutting their potential income streams to do all this thereby making it harder for them to pay the loans off quickly. This does not give them a strong footing for getting a good deal. Nothing quite like a high interest long term loan to cripple you. 3) Losing one stand at a time means the lower capacity stadium starts immediately. If the South stand goes first the capacity immediately drops to 12000. Having to accommodate away fans means home support seats are cut even further. The new south stand will be significantly smaller (it cant be any taller than existing without potential legal challenges and it must comply with modern stadia regs) so lets say it ended up being 4000 seats. The next stand you lose is the Merkland and its replacement's capacity will be about half of the existing (about 1500). Then the Main stand goes and once again new stand will have a capacity about 50% of the existing possible even less if they try to maintain corporate facility levels. Lower fan potential = less ticket money, less potential merchandise sales, less money from catering, less money from pitch side sponsors= less playing budget and so on 4) Still got to build those training facilities somewhere Evidence of this please? And by evidence I mean an actual masterplan of the site which would allow a proper budget cost to be calculated and not just a figure picked out of the air by builder. All I have ever seen for this Kings Links stadium was a couple of artists impressions so if you have access to a fully master-planned scheme like the ones for Loriston or Kingsford please either post it here or PM me as I genuinely want to see it. Did that £42million allow for compensating/ relocating the Golf course/ driving range? Did it include the car-parking, road upgrades, flood defences (yes that's right), complicated ground preparation and foundation design, training facilites? I've heard builders say they could build a house for £120k only for this to almost double when the planning drawings are complete and then rise again once the Structural Engineer gets involved.

Bigger crowds - Who knows? Should the team suddenly win the league and go back to the days of Fergie them perhaps distance is no object. Knowing you wont get frostbite or soaking wet while straining to see past a fence, supporting pillar, or some random who wont sit down from a seat which is either bolted down to a former terrace or a plastic replacement for one first installed before the first world war and having the option to buy snacks & drinks prepared in modern facilities. Suddenly the £21-25.00 per ticket doesnt seem quite so bad. Bigger away crowds? - EH? Are you a Kilmarnock board member or one of Doncaster & Reagans cronies? AFCs priority is to their own fans and the business model is thankfully not based on getting 4 OF away crowds a season. I presume you are aware the club cut the OF allocations a couple of seasons back so they now get the same as everyone else. More Atmosphere Created/ more unwelcoming cauldron? - A purpose built fully enclosed arena as opposed to a mishmash of stands of different heights one of which isn't even fully covered. Yeah I can see why you are having trouble understanding this You want to find out about the acoustics of Pittodrie, take a trip into the middle of the pitch on a match day and try to see if you can understand to the PA announcements. You may think you are in a cauldron of noise in the RDS whilst your mate sat in the Main stand thinks its so quiet they can choose to listen to an arguing couple 6 rows behind them. Ticket Prices? - No one knows the answer to this. Supply and demand will have a factor as will club expenses. Anyone claiming the new stadium automatically equals more expensive tickets with the evidence currently available is scaremongering. Increasing maintenance costs for a wooden/ possibly asbestos ridden main stand and a sinking/cracking south stand on the other hand. Winning more at home? - Home teams generally win more often at home because bugger me if they don't play at their HOME stadium more than the AWAY team. However a shit home team on the other hand 17 years ago we finished bottom of the league and only won 10 of 23 competitive home games (only 6 league games) and lost 6-0 & 5-1 (twice) to everyone's favourite glasgow teams. Did anyone blame Pittodrie for that? Would it have happened in a modern stadium with modern training facilities? Maybes aye, Maybes naw. Is anyone suggesting Pittodrie is the main factor in this seasons home form? There is being negative and there is basically trolling. Coming on here and just laughing or slagging the clubs attempts to get a better stadium rather than pointing out actual alternatives falls into the latter. And don't re-start the broken record of 'pittodrie can easily be redeveloped to a modern 20000 capacity stadium' unless you can prove you work or have ever worked for the likes of Arup, Miller partnership, Herzog & De Meuron, Foster Associates or Populous. Do that and the floor shall be open for your presentation.

Getting in her before Manc (Glory hunter that I am) Strikers: Rooney 18 Stockley 6 Burns 1 Storey 1 Midfielders: McGinn 14 McLean 5 Hayes 8 Maddison 2 Pawlett 3 Christie 2 Jack 2 Defenders: Considine 7 Logan 4 O'Connor 2 Taylor 2 Shinnie 2

Looked like he wanted to cry at the final whistle. Nice Birthday present for himself

I'm sure John Halliday is desperately awaiting your application to join his team so you can show them how its done

Planners can blindly reject if they want but that would lead to an appeal by AFC. If the appeal went far enough the whole thing could be taken out of the Council's hands depending on the arguments. The Council will not want that as they lose a large chunk of their control (Take a quick look at what happened around Codona's Amusement Park) My opinion is as previously stated. HFM & AFC will continue negotiations with the Planners until enough details are submitted/ changes made to allow a conditional planning consent to be issued. Large chunk of the conditions will have 'no work may begin on site until <insert condition response> is agreed and approved in writing by ACC. Other Conditions will basically say 'you are not allowed to use certain materials, exceed approved noise levels at certain times and so on One the Planning stage is over there is still the little matter of Building Standards approval to negotiate which will cover a large chunk of the 'Technical' details people are crying out for. Of course Building standards drawings are not open to the public so anyone wanting to see them would need to wait until they have been approved and then make an appointment with the council.

I thought the arguments were about car-parking and bus services. Two things that have always been bones of contention in Aberdeen.

Section 75 up here is the same thing. My experience of it in Glasgow has always been with residential conversions of Listed Buildings in which there is no scope for providing a garden area for the future residents. As to whether the Section 75 payments are actually used to fund the public amenity/ green spaces it is supposed to.....

Off the ball mentioned the traffic issues and seemingly people were texting them about requesting a delay to the kick off but the officials at the game say there wasn't even a suggestion from the teams. The issues with the construction works on the major roads around Motherwell and Hamilton have been well documented for at least the last 6months (probably even longer) so anyone who was driving should have made allowances and planned to arrive in Motherwell much earlier. It may not be the nicest place in Scotland but sitting in a Starbucks or Costa beats sitting on the Raith Interchange. In saying that given the upper tier of the 'away' stand was closed it means the Arabs allocation was only 5,376 with St Mirrens being 5,873. Whether or not the upper tier was deliberately shut to make it a fair split St Mirrens allocation looked close to a sell out whilst there were big gaps in the United sections.

I feel the council planning are in a no win situation with this one. After the debacle of the newly elected council randomly reversing previously approved planning applications (including as I recall the training facility section at Loriston) and the mess that was Union Terrace gardens they will be under alot of pressure from the Press & Public to not be seen as denying the City something which many see as a positive move. However I sense approving the application will lead to legal challenges not too dis-similar to that used against the AWPR. I have only skimmed over the No Kingsford stadium FB group but for me it seems to fall into the trap so many people do when protesting something. Social media can be a powerful weapon when used correctly and I have seen groups like this before. There will be a hardcore few behind it but their online conduct will hinder them from getting people who are in the 'I don't want the <insert development here> built here but I have more pressing concerns in my life so I'm really not bothered' to really support them. Those are a key demographic when protesting anything. A few publicity shots in the press will not make up for the mess the objections turned into - Never ever get a standard letter, or tick-box list and get multiple people to sign it. It is too easy to be hi-jacked/ faked and will count against you. The same applies to those campaigning in favour. If you can get people to put their objections in their own words, the most powerful of which will still be the old fashioned formal letter then you will be taken more seriously. One letter signed on behalf of a group of people is better than the multiple copies of the same letter signed by different people I recently advised some people about how best to object to a new housing development. The development itself was not against any local plans and it was most likely going to be approved (council would have been hard pressed to reject it) so in that situation the key was not to get angry and demand it be rejected but to use local knowledge to highlight things the Developers/ Designers either may have ignored or had little to know chance of even knowing. The result was the application was approved but was hit with some seriously difficult & expensive conditions all of which would delay the project and potentially make it so expensive the developer may have to cancel it altogether. The locals were able to download a copy of the conditions along with the planning officers contact details so should the Developer try to cut any corners the alert would be raised sharpish and enforcement action taken. I will not be surprised if the decision is delayed well beyond the June 20th mark but I will be surprised if the Council issue an outright rejection. My money is on a few more months of negotiations followed by a conditional consent with a conditions list similar to what Tesco were hit with for their proposed Glasgow Harbour store (Now cancelled following their 'creative accounting' scandal).

I know its the 'diddy' cup final and its been given a shit kick-off time but I still think it is a sad sign that two of Scottish footballs reasonably big teams cannot muster up 13,742 fans between them. I went to the 2013 final with my QOS supporting mates and that was a sell out in both ends. Still don't understand why Fir Park is one of the preferred venues for this final. Good game so far - 1-1 (2 goals in the space of 1min)

http://www.thecanary.co/2017/03/24/no-one-wants-talk-scandal-dogging-comic-relief-done/

England-shire

I would rather the club had one base which the players could travel to and not then have to be bussed about (Less they have to move about the less likely they are to be injured in coach accidents), which they are trying to do but for some reason you seem to be against this even though the masterplan has '5 pitches and a pavilion' The average occupancy of a car is a lovely stat to throw about and what it shows is the over reliance modern day society has placed on them. The guidelines for building design, master-planning etc have lots of different ratios but if they scrapped them in favour of statistics taken based on a certain number of people, in a certain environment at a certain time then what you would end up with is the following -Small 1 (max 2) bedroom houses with 2 parking spaces as the Average household in Scotland is 2 people but they both own cars. - Large Warehouses with expansive delivery bays as online shopping is seemingly on the verge of replacing the traditional high street or retail park - Sports facilities being shut down as sports participation is declining. Basically a Conservative party wet dream. A wise man once said 'statistics are like mini-skirts, they look great but hide what is truley important' Is your stance in this debate to be 'everything is fine, it has been for decades, so improvement/ change is not required'?

There are lots of things which are the 'case all over the world' Lack of Education, Lack of Clean Drinking water, Lack of a safe place to live. There are charities and aid groups working round the clock to try and resolve this but should they stop because they are fighting against arguably the norm for more than half the planet? Actually implying the club should take a half-assed approach to providing facilities for their prized assets is one of the most depressing thing I've read on a Dons fans message board. It will be even more depressing if it actually came form someone who has a vested emotional interest in them IE a fan.

Just want to chuck in that the Standard parking requirement for stadia is Scotland (as adopted by ACC and numerous other councils) is 1 space per 15 seats + a transport assessment be it city centre, inner city, or the outskirts 20000 seat stadium therefore is only obliged to provide 1,334 parking spaces. Current proposal provides 1,598 which is 1 space per 12.5 seats. 5 people per car = 7,990 fans If parking capacity using other nearby facilities saw that increased to 3000 that would be 1 space per 7. up to 15,000 fans (more if people carriers are used) 92 coach parking spaces at 42-75 seats each = 3,864 - 6,900 fans Then you add in the people using public transport, being dropped off, cycling, or walking.

The Purpose of a Park & Ride system as I understand it is to allow people travelling from further afield to leave their car close to a city and travel the last few miles by bus/ train etc. It is not designed for people living next door to them to use as a car-park. I don't know how many people actually commute to the city using the A944 but it always seemed bizarre to me that they chose to build Park & Rides there when it seemed to me they should be built off the A90 & A96 (Can't comment on the Road to Peterhead but is it fair to call Portlethen a Park & Ride?) Perhaps it was some sort of incredible foresight by the Local Councils that someday there might be a large entertainment complex of some sort built in the area There is also the stigma attached to bus travel in so many Western nations, a snobbery if you will that it is for the poor or the elderly and using it is some sort of admission that you are 'not as good as the rest of us'. Kick that into touch and you save yourself a fortune. For me an example of a good bus network is Edinburgh (I only visit though so I will concede to any locals who have more experience) and I do have to wonder if making the centre extremely car-unfriendly has had something to do with that. ACC on the other hand never seem to follow through with their plans to encourage public transport/ pedestrians/ Cyclists. Continuing to build/ extend shopping malls with large car-parks rather than looking at re-opening railway stations at say Cove, Kittybrewster, Bucksburn etc shows where the city is headed.

. An extremely high sand content requiring some very careful thought by structural engineers to ensure the stands would not sink, not just under their own mass but also the additional weight of up to 20,000 moving objects. The stadium would essentially need to become a giant 'raft' I believe the RDS cost circa £4.5million back in 1992/93 and I reckon a fair chunk of that was to get the foundations right. The golf course/ driving range etc are also close to sea level with the beach concourse acting as a flood barrier. A few years back the club had to dig up the entire pitch and fix the drainage as there were issues with the existing run being affected by the tides. The closer you get to the sea the more complicated the ground and foul drainage will become as do installing new services such as power, water, telephone etc. Re-routing an existing road is one thing. Re-routing and upgrading to the required standard for a 20000 seat stadium is another. Anyway I've seen a few mentions of the Council offering alternative sites. If this is to continue I want to see actual evidence particularly given the dodgy goings on that ACC have been accused of in terms of land sales over the last 20 years.

https://goo.gl/maps/qmudFHAkENP2 Oxford United

If this new stadium scenario ends up being anything like the bullshit Bristol City & Bristol Rovers have been through then the club may as well shut themselves down. But a quick Summary Ashton Gate Redevelopment cost is £45million+ Stadium boundary is clear of all primary streets so fans disperse onto private land/ carparks. City actually has space to build on. Approx 50% of the land immediately around it is relatively new commercial property none of which are accessed via any of the land surrounding the stadium. Retail park owners don't tend to kick up a fuss about having 20000 plus people showing up on their doorsteps especially when its an existing situation. Residential property around the stadium is either old terraced housing separated from the stadium boundary by back gardens (on one side the rear gardens are quite large too) or old tower blocks which I hazard a bet will be inline for demolition soon. Stadium redevelopment will not affect their existing accesses/ servicing so provided Bristol City don't screw up the 'daylighting' issues there is little reason for objection. Compare the aerial photos of both stadiums (Old Ashton Gate & Existing Pittodrie)

Another Arab defeat. Record for last 10 games is now 6 points from a possible 30 with 3 straight defeats. Should Morton turnover Falkirk tonight they will 7 points behind hibs with a game in hand.

Depends if they still have that lady who suggested they scrap the bypass in favour of a tunnel under the City as it would reduce the chances of the road being blocked by snow.

It was something the previous YES campaign failed to fully address. The key to the next referendum is not to ride on the apparent wave of pro independence but to make serious efforts to convince people that whilst change will initially be hard it will be good in the long term. In the case of the central belt bias suggestion I think its along these lines 'well we are being let down by both London & Edinburgh at the moment but at least we know where we stand. Take London out of the equation and we will just be let down by Edinburgh but we don't have a clue about X,Y&Z....lets just stay put. As I saw it the NO campaign in 2014 were not made to work hard enough as they had the away goals advantage that is there are so many people for which change and uncertainty are scarey they will be more inclined to keep the status quo. The undecideds are therefore easier to influence with 'project' fear'. I hope that should it come around the YES camp tone down the populist US presidential style effort, keep celebrity endorsements to a minimum and come out with genuine honest proposals along the lines of: 'Look this is our proposal for x Y & Z. We have researched this and we think this is a viable option but should it not work we have contingency plans to make sure we don't fall off the cliff. Yes it will be hard, of course it will be, we are taking control of everything and it will take time to work out the bugs but we are confident your life and future generations lives will be better as a consequence.' I was pleased to hear an interview with one of the team hired to work out potential economic models for an independent Scotland in which he admitted the 2014 plan was a tad optimistic and they were now basing their plans on any oil income being a bonus rather than a key element. The more uncertainty you can remove the better your case Get the ball rolling now (if indeed it has not been running since September 2014) while Mrs May is sounding off and the Section 30 is still to be agreed.

The Duelling of the A9 is a good thing but once you get past Inverness there are quite significant issues. Take Wester Ross for example where younger populations are on a serious decline. Both Ullapool High School & Gairloch High School are set to drop to 4.5day weeks and there are so many houses for sale yet no one is buying as there is no work. Ludicrously the prices aren't dropping either. The Locals I know are fed up with Visit Scotland boasting about the North Coast 500 yet covering up that tourist income has actually declined whilst traffic has increased. Only the Petrol stations have seen a rise in income as people now take their camper-vans rather than chose to stay in hotels & B&Bs or drive the whole thing in 2-3 days rather than hanging around for a week like they used to. many of them make sure they stock up in the Inverness tesco before they cross the Kessock Bridge rather than rely on the small local stores or restuarants. BEAR are responsible for the A9 section of the NC500 so it gets maintained however the rest of it falls into the remit of Highland Council so if you are planning on driving from say Loch Carron to Ullapool you'd better invest in a serious 4x4. The 10 year freeze on Council tax certainly hasn't helped and the former SNP led coaltion council did themselves no favours with their attempts to shut down rural services for minimal savings which eventually resulted in the Independents taking control when the Lib Dems quit. You can build all the Hydro plants & wind farms you like in the Highlands but with technological improvements they bring minimal employment to the areas and if the tourist trade continues to decline the recent resurgence of the term 'Highland Clearances' may become a reality For the YES campaign to get a real foothold in the highlands (not just Inverness) they have to start showing that an independent Scottish Government is actually interested in the people that live and work there rather than the tourists who turn up for the weekend. This is however probably moot point as the Highlands, Eileen Star, Orkney & Shetland only accounted for 6% of the total votes cast in the 2014 referendum so it I suspect it is unlikely either side of the campaign will really be too concerned about what they think.