maverick sheep Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 it wasn't so much that martinez didn't know his best side i don't think. He was fucked by not having players capable of playing his system. Signing Beusejour transformed the team and they were able to start playing the way he wanted. At a team like pool he could attract some quality and build some great foundations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrant Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 I don't doubt that Martinez has the potential to be a great manager but I think this particular job has come that bit too soon for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyBiscuit Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 it wasn't so much that martinez didn't know his best side i don't think. He was fucked by not having players capable of playing his system. Signing Beusejour transformed the team and they were able to start playing the way he wanted. If you don't have the players to play your system effectively, you use a system that suits the players at your disposal. Anything else is pigheaded stubborness that could have seen his team relegated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TENEMENTFUNSTER Posted May 17, 2012 Author Share Posted May 17, 2012 Agree with BB and Tyrant about Martinez. Pulled a colossally bad season from the fire with several, admittedly excellent, results. 7 good games a season might get you a cup, thats what Dalglish got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlg1903 Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Don't really agree with the sentiment of this to be honest. His team were getting pumped every week for a long, long time and while it is remarkable they survived with a great run at the end of the season, it took him far too long to realise what his best side was and far more importantly, a very long time to realise what shape suits his side. I certainly don't think he's necessarily a bad manager per se, but I certainly don't think he's as great a manager as some make out. A very good manager would have halted their awful run of form way before he did. Also, had their season been reversed and they'd picked up the majority of their points in the first half of the season instead of the second, there isn't a chance he'd be high up that list. In fact, he may not even be on it at all. BB i have to disagree, they were never getting pumped every week. http://www.wiganlatics.co.uk/page/Fixtures/0,,10429,00.html If you look at their results they have scored in more than two thirds of their games this season. The thing with Martinez is that he has never changed his philosophy regardless off the league position. He's all about playing attractive stuff and even when they went on their losing streak he didn't cave and in quite a few games they were unlucky to lose. Yes the real turnaround came when the changed to a 3-4-3 but he deserves credit for that not a 'well he should have done it sooner' mentality. Also he maintained the dressing room admirably when so many results went against them, there is no point you could look at wigan through the season and think the players were not playing for him. It seems to me that a big part of the turnaround was getting maloney fit and playing well, he reveled in the responsibility of playmaker and most good things wigan did in the run in went through him. Overall i think a job like Liverpool is maybe a couple of seasons too soon for him but i do expect Martinez to go far in the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maverick sheep Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 The only thing it boils down to is that Martinez has achieved what he was tasked with every season he's been a manager. And given the teams we're talking about he's mainly been asked to work miracles. Whether you think it's too soon is really down to gut feeling. I personally think it's the perfect time for him to make the step up. Wigan would be fucked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madbadteacher Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Surely a dream team of "Saint Steven" Gerrard and Someone older to guide him? Gordon Strachan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyBiscuit Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 BB i have to disagree, they were never getting pumped every week. http://www.wiganlatics.co.uk/page/Fixtures/0,,10429,00.html If you look at their results they have scored in more than two thirds of their games this season. The thing with Martinez is that he has never changed his philosophy regardless off the league position. He's all about playing attractive stuff and even when they went on their losing streak he didn't cave and in quite a few games they were unlucky to lose. Yes the real turnaround came when the changed to a 3-4-3 but he deserves credit for that not a 'well he should have done it sooner' mentality. Also he maintained the dressing room admirably when so many results went against them, there is no point you could look at wigan through the season and think the players were not playing for him. It seems to me that a big part of the turnaround was getting maloney fit and playing well, he reveled in the responsibility of playmaker and most good things wigan did in the run in went through him. Overall i think a job like Liverpool is maybe a couple of seasons too soon for him but i do expect Martinez to go far in the game. Deary me man... 9 defeats on the bounce: Sat 10 15:00 A Manchester City PREM L 0-3 46,509 League Table Match Report Tue 13 20:00 A Crystal Palace LGCP L 1-2 7,649 Match Report Sat 17 15:00 A Everton PREM L 1-3 31,576 League Table Match Report Sat 24 15:00 H Tottenham PREM L 1-2 18,788 League Table Match Report October Sat 1 15:00 A Aston Villa PREM L 0-2 30,744 League Table Match Report Sat 15 15:00 H Bolton PREM L 1-3 17,261 League Table Match Report Sat 22 15:00 A Newcastle PREM L 0-1 48,321 League Table Match Report Sat 29 15:00 H Fulham PREM L 0-2 15,796 League Table Match Report November Sun 6 13:30 A Wolves PREM L 1-3 23,536 League Table Match Report and then... one victory in 13 Mon 26 15:00 A Man Utd PREM L 0-5 75,183 League Table Match Report Sat 31 15:00 A Stoke City PREM D 2-2 26,595 League Table Match Report January Tue 3 19:45 H Sunderland PREM L 1-4 15,871 League Table Match Report Sat 7 15:00 A Swindon Town FACP L 1-2 13,935 Match Report Mon 16 20:00 H Manchester City PREM L 0-1 16,026 League Table Match Report Sat 21 15:00 A QPR PREM L 1-3 16,002 League Table Match Report Tue 31 19:45 A Tottenham PREM L 1-3 35,801 League Table Match Report February Sat 4 15:00 H Everton PREM D 1-1 18,340 League Table Match Report Sat 11 15:00 A Bolton PREM W 2-1 23,450 League Table Match Report Sat 25 15:00 H Aston Villa PREM D 0-0 20,601 League Table Match Report March Sat 3 15:00 H Swansea City PREM L 0-2 19,001 League Table Match Report Sun 11 16:00 A Norwich City PREM D 1-1 26,653 League Table Match Report Sat 17 15:00 H WBA PREM D 1-1 21,379 League Table Match Report In anyone's book that is shite. They're not a recently promoted club, and i appreciate the lack of funds etc but that is not the sign of a great manager. Again, turn their season around and ask yourself if you'd be saying the same thing. Or even better... ask yourself if you'd be saying the same thing if it it happened to be the Dons he had those runs managing. Those runs prove his side has been more abysmal than anything else and he's the manager, that falls at his feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlg1903 Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Deary me man... 9 defeats on the bounce: and then... one victory in 13 In anyone's book that is shite. They're not a recently promoted club, and i appreciate the lack of funds etc but that is not the sign of a great manager. Again, turn their season around and ask yourself if you'd be saying the same thing. Or even better... ask yourself if you'd be saying the same thing if it it happened to be the Dons he had those runs managing. Those runs prove his side has been more abysmal than anything else and he's the manager, that falls at his feet. your points are fair i grant you, my point is that even though they lost those games most of them were pretty close therefore not pumped (i suppose we have may different definitions of what is pumped for me its losing by at least 3 clear goals). Secondly yes if you flipped the seasons results you would look at it differently. The big difference is the pressure is on a lot more at the end of a season as opposed to at the beginning. People are touting him because he handled said pressure really well and by not sacrificing his style of play either. As for if it was an aberdeen team on a run like that of course i would be asking questions but the clubs are very different in terms of stature vs league competing in. We are a big team in scotland and pay wages that entitle an expectation to finish in the top 5 at least. Wigan don't pay a lot in wages compared to virtually every other team in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyBiscuit Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 your points are fair i grant you, my point is that even though they lost those games most of them were pretty close therefore not pumped (i suppose we have may different definitions of what is pumped for me its losing by at least 3 clear goals). Semantics. I'd say losing 9 on the bounce is a collective pumping. No offence mate, but that sounds like an excuse offered up by the man in charge of The Dons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlg1903 Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Semantics. I'd say losing 9 on the bounce is a collective pumping. No offence mate, but that sounds like an excuse offered up by the man in charge of The Dons. none taken dude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kowalski Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Txiki Begiristain is seemingly Liverpool's new director of football. Surely to fuck Guardiola isn't going to Liverpool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maverick sheep Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Txiki Begiristain is seemingly Liverpool's new director of football. Surely to fuck Guardiola isn't going to Liverpool. No, but it would seem to guarantee that Mourinho won't be either. They've knocked back Steve Clark's offer of resignation apparently. Martinez/Clark combo would be a coaching dream team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyBiscuit Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 No, but it would seem to guarantee that Mourinho won't be either. They've knocked back Steve Clark's offer of resignation apparently. Martinez/Clark combo would be a coaching dream team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyBiscuit Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Aston Villa are supposedly going for Solskjaer, Martinez given permission to talk to Liverpool (apologies if that's old) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maverick sheep Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 you feeling ok? Martinez laid the foundations for Swansea reaching the top-flight then kept a garbage Wigan team up for two years - as I said, has achieved what he's been tasked with in each season in management. He's got as much of a football brain as there is around. Clarke has been as good an assistant as the EPL has had, and is credited by Mourinho for much of Chelski's success. Though to be fair, what would he know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyBiscuit Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 you feeling ok? Martinez laid the foundations for Swansea reaching the top-flight then kept a garbage Wigan team up for two years - as I said, has achieved what he's been tasked with in each season in management. He's got as much of a football brain as there is around. Clarke has been as good an assistant as the EPL has had, and is credited by Mourinho for much of Chelski's success. Though to be fair, what would he know? Just the use of "Dream Team". Thought you were being ironic. I agree about Clarke, just think you took it a tad far there though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maverick sheep Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Just the use of "Dream Team". Thought you were being ironic. I agree about Clarke, just think you took it a tad far there though. Fair point. If I wasn't a miserable bastard so much of the time it wouldn't be so noticeable when football makes me jizz in my pants. My worry is that I might actually enjoy watching liverpool if they appoint Martinez (and bin the racist). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyBiscuit Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Fair point. If I wasn't a miserable bastard so much of the time it wouldn't be so noticeable when football makes me jizz in my pants. My worry is that I might actually enjoy watching liverpool if they appoint Martinez (and bin the racist). I think no matter who takes it, they've got a shit load of restructuring to do and that could take a couple of transfer windows... will they get the time and the money? They may also not be able to get top dollar for those they require to be binned due to the chronic performances this season... it's a tough job for whoever takes it. As I said re Martinez, I don't think he's a bad manager just think the jury should still be out, but if he takes the Liverpool job it's sad to say but his rep could go south rather quickly. Big gamble for club and manager at this stage I'd say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maverick sheep Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 I think no matter who takes it, they've got a shit load of restructuring to do and that could take a couple of transfer windows... will they get the time and the money? They may also not be able to get top dollar for those they require to be binned due to the chronic performances this season... it's a tough job for whoever takes it. As I said re Martinez, I don't think he's a bad manager just think the jury should still be out, but if he takes the Liverpool job it's sad to say but his rep could go south rather quickly. Big gamble for club and manager at this stage I'd say. Aye the need to rebuild and inability to do it for the various reasons is why liverpool have reminded me of aberdeen the last few years. that's mainly why I'd be surprised if an older manager took the job on. Martinez for eg could fail, then go back to the level he's at now and have time to rebuild his career. In terms of the club, the old wise head and the club legend were catastrophies (I'm still talking about pool...) and with the club languishing, the up-and-coming manager is maybe less of a gamble now than it would've been in other years. Solskjaer to villa would be interesting! guessing lambert will get it but it'd be nice to have ole kicking about. i reckon young coaches should be like young players. man u could loan ole out to manage someone on a 2 year deal, with a view to him taking over at old trafford... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CtS Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Just the use of "Dream Team". Thought you were being ironic. I agree about Clarke, just think you took it a tad far there though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jute Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Liverpool have approached Wigan for permission to speak to Martinez according to BBC this morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrant Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc_don Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Aston Villa are supposedly going for Solskjaer, Martinez given permission to talk to Liverpool (apologies if that's old) Liverpool have approached Wigan for permission to speak to Martinez according to BBC this morning. There an echo in here Jute? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrant Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Brendan Rodgers turns down the chance to speak to Liverpool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
️ Come on you Reds! ️
️ Come on you Reds! ️
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