glasgow sheep Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 http://www.football-finances.org.uk/spl/turnover.htm NB: The Hearts figures are for 2007 season as the club is late, and being fined, for the late filing of their 2008 results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kowalski Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 Looks like we've done okay, but does this mean Killie are spending more on wages than us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harcus Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 Looks like we've done okay, but does this mean Killie are spending more on wages than us? as a % of their income, it would seem yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glasgow sheep Posted April 11, 2009 Author Share Posted April 11, 2009 as a % of their income, it would seem yes. From the first graph it would seem they are paying more cash as I think it is displayed as a % of all SPL wages!! The third graph represents the wages/income ratio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kowalski Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 From the first graph it would seem they are paying more cash as I think it is displayed as a % of all SPL wages!! That's how I read it too. Interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glasgow sheep Posted April 11, 2009 Author Share Posted April 11, 2009 Went back to the website and had a look at the Killie section: There is though a fundamental difference in the way Killie are set up compared to the other sides in the SPL. A third of the money coming in to the club is from The Park Hotel. If this was not included then Killie slip back into being well below Aberdeen, and closer to Dundee United. This may be what their natural position is, and anything better or worse is down to the ability of the management and players. The wages figure for Kilmarnock is different from all other SPL clubs because of the huge number of people employed in the hotel. Assuming that the hotel employs a lot of people on lower wages compared to the amount the players are paid make both the total, and the ratio difficult to analyse. The wages ratio shows that wages seem to be under control, but with the hotel included this is not really a reliable measure. The total wages are not that high though. Hibs have a higher wage bill, Falkirk and Dundee United have wages of between £2m and £3m which is probably what Kilmarnock's non-hotel wages come to. The graph below shows the number of staff employed by Kilmarnock. This has been fairly flat. The split for 2007 shows there were 164 "Hotel" staff, 64 "Football" staff, 16 "Commercial" staff and 5 Admin.. As a comparison Dundee United have 55 players/coaches and 28 others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_widdows Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 Makes you wonder just how much debt hibs used to have? 4.4m for Scott brown 1.6m for O Connor 2m for Whittaker and yet they still have the same debt as us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glasgow sheep Posted April 11, 2009 Author Share Posted April 11, 2009 Makes you wonder just how much debt hibs used to have? 4.4m for Scott brown 1.6m for O Connor 2m for Whittaker and yet they still have the same debt as us? except they don't Aberdeen £9.0M http://www.football-finances.org.uk/aberdeen/debt2.htm Hibs £6.8M http://www.football-finances.org.uk/hibs/debts.htm But yeah they must have been in a hell of a debt given they made £9M from selling their car park according to that link, never mind player sales Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jute Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 except they don't Aberdeen £9.0M http://www.football-finances.org.uk/aberdeen/debt2.htm Hibs £6.8M http://www.football-finances.org.uk/hibs/debts.htm But yeah they must have been in a hell of a debt given they made £9M from selling their car park according to that link, never mind player sales Did they not use that cash to build their training facility? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc_don Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 SPL clubs hold summit to plot course through economic crisis Published Date: 15 April 2009 By Mike Aitken SCOTLAND'S leading football clubs have held a summit to discuss how they can best cope with the challenge of the recession. The Scotsman has learned that representatives of the Scottish Premier League met in Edinburgh to share ideas and listen to expert advice – from organisations including Deloitte and the English Football League – on dealing with the unprecedented downturn in the economy. Although Rangers and Celtic operate in a different commercial world from Hamilton and Falkirk, all 12 members of the SPL understand that as unemployment rises and those in work face concerns over job security, discretionary spending on leisure activities such as following football looks certain to be curtailed for all Scottish clubs next season. How to deal with a possible drop in season ticket sales, falling income from merchandise and the likelihood of swingeing cuts in corporate spending were among the topics addressed at the meeting organised by the SPL. Greig Mailer, the marketing manager for the SPL, said the pooling of ideas as the Scottish game faces up to the harsh reality of a changed economic landscape was an important aspect of the league's remit. "One of the responsibilities of the SPL is to give clubs a platform to discuss and share new ideas," he said. "That's something we do on a regular basis and the recent meeting at Easter Road seemed to go down well." There were presentations in Edinburgh from a number of specialist business organisations, including Deloitte, one of the world's largest financial advisers, on how to move forward, as well as input from the Football League on improving the matchday experience. The vulnerability of football clubs which carry sizeable debts and don't have the cushion of the kind of lavish TV deals enjoyed by their counterparts in England means that no club in Scotland can take the credit crunch lightly. With the threat of insolvency already looming over several Scottish clubs, the SPL acted to take up the cudgels for its members and ensure no-one has their head buried in the sand when it comes to facing up to the fall in consumer confidence. One issue on which all the clubs agreed was that offering free admission to children could diminish the value of their brand. This didn't mean they wouldn't look at cut-price deals for youngsters, but clubs were concerned about the negative repercussions attached to giving away their product. There were also concerns that unsupervised free admission for kids could cause match day problems. It was significant when Hearts announced their season ticket prices for next season yesterday that rather than offer free admission to juniors they came up with an innovative scheme which prices entry for Under-12s at just £1 per game. The £19 season ticket for juveniles is only available in conjunction with the purchase of an adult season ticket. Each adult ticket holder can buy two season passes for the Under-12s, thereby making it possible for more families with young children to attend games together. The issue of season ticket pricing in a recession is a sensitive one, and some of Hearts' prices for 2009/10 are lower than they were this season. A seat in the Gold Zone is down from £385 to £340, while a Silver Zone pass is reduced from £335 to £295. Only the cheapest option, in the Bronze Zone, shows a small increase from £250 to £260. There will also be a free membership programme for Under-16s to be called 'Hearts Juniors'. This will have matchday and non-matchday elements with a focus online. As with all season-ticket schemes, only domestic league football is included in the price. No decision has yet been taken by Hearts, in the event of qualifying for next season's Europa League, whether they will play their home matches at Tynecastle or utilise a venue with a larger capacity such as Murrayfield. The club have consulted with supporters' groups on their preferences and over the next month to six weeks will reach a verdict which seeks to balance the wishes of their fans with commercial pressures. Tynecastle is not currently deemed suitable by Uefa, the organisers of European football, but the changes required to make the ground fit for purpose are not major and are related to press and hospitality facilities rather than the dimensions of the pitch. Have to say, Its a shame under 12's don't get in for free, but Hearts' idea of a 19pound season ticket with an adult one isn't a bad start. Don't think it will help their debt mind, but its not a bad idea in theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlg1903 Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Im not to adverse to letting kids in on the cheap, they are always going to want things like pies, drinks, crisps etc which will make the club a wee bit of money. Not going to wipe out the debt but the way i see it is that if you can get those kids in who wouldnt have been going at full price its more profitable than an empty seat. The downside is that the dross we are playing at the moment isnt exactly going to inspire them to come back regardless of how little it has cost them to get in. When it comes down to getting people through the gate during this financial crisis the product on the park becomes a lot more important than it was say a year ago. A drop in ticket prices across the board might be the only way to get people through the turnstyles unless performances improve drastically Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_min Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Im not to adverse to letting kids in on the cheap, they are always going to want things like pies, drinks, crisps etc which will make the club a wee bit of money. Not going to wipe out the debt but the way i see it is that if you can get those kids in who wouldnt have been going at full price its more profitable than an empty seat. The downside is that the dross we are playing at the moment isnt exactly going to inspire them to come back regardless of how little it has cost them to get in. When it comes down to getting people through the gate during this financial crisis the product on the park becomes a lot more important than it was say a year ago. A drop in ticket prices across the board might be the only way to get people through the turnstyles unless performances improve drastically Nope, we won't make a penny off that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glasgowdon Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Nope, we won't make a penny off that. But what if they buy a shirt out the shop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_min Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 But sell more and the club can surely negotiate a better deal with the outside caterers? Surely the club monitor sales at the pie stands? Don't they sell out of pies every game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlg1903 Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Nope, we won't make a penny off that. Why not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_min Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Why not? Cause we sold it all to a catering company. We make the same if we sell 1 pie or 1,500,002 pies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Cause we sold it all to a catering company. We make the same if we sell 1 pie or 1,500,002 pies. No we don't. If Aberdeen averaged crowds of 50'000 we could negotiate a better deal at the start of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc_don Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 No we don't. If Aberdeen averaged crowds of 50'000 we could negotiate a better deal at the start of the season. Of course we would renegotiate, but I think he's saying currently it is irrelevant as to how many pies they sold as we get a fixed sum from the caterers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlg1903 Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Of course we would renegotiate, but I think he's saying currently it is irrelevant as to how many pies they sold as we get a fixed sum from the caterers Interesting, i didnt know that. Doesnt sound the best the best of deals to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc_don Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Interesting, i didnt know that. Doesnt sound the best the best of deals to be honest. I suppose its to ensure we minimise losses directly affecting the club. I'm sure Ajja will correct me, but I just assume that its a guaranteed income, rain or shine thus aiding a financialy stable environment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlg1903 Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 I suppose its to ensure we minimise losses directly affecting the club. I'm sure Ajja will correct me, but I just assume that its a guaranteed income, rain or shine thus aiding a financialy stable environment. Aye thats unarguably a good thing but i would have thought it prudent to have a percentage of profit clause, especially for seasons like last year when we filled pittodrie a lot more than we have done in recent years. I appreciate its kinda having your cake and eating it though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajja Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 I suppose its to ensure we minimise losses directly affecting the club. I'm sure Ajja will correct me, but I just assume that its a guaranteed income, rain or shine thus aiding a financialy stable environment. Is this reference to my business acumen or my passion for the pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TENEMENTFUNSTER Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 From the first graph it would seem they are paying more cash as I think it is displayed as a % of all SPL wages!! The third graph represents the wages/income ratio I remember an article a while back about value for money from goalkeeprs, Combe was the second highest paid keeper on the list at about 4k and Langfield was on 1.5k. p/w. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc_don Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Is this reference to my business acumen or my passion for the pie Whatever floats your boat To be fair, you are known for both I do hope that AFC come up with some sort of incentive for season tickets this year. Whilst I won't be getting one, as I don't know where i'll be, but I imagine season tickets may take a slight dip due to financial constraints kicking in, and possibly the lack of promising signings. I have to commend Hearts for their pro-activity on the matter, and I understand HIVs have done something along those lines too? Getting the kids into Pittodrie is a priority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc_don Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 TV firm Setanta want to renegotiate their four-year £125m deal with the SPL, which is due to begin in 2010/11. (Scottish Sun) Can't be good news Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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