New stadium thread

[manc_don]

The X40 goes from the park and ride to Merkland Road and has 21 cars parked at it during a game.

 

It was replying to the cost of buying the land.

 

But it's old farm land and it's out of town.  Kings Links will be quite pricey due to proximity to the city centre.

[jess]

But it's old farm land and it's out of town.  Kings Links will be quite pricey due to proximity to the city centre.

 

Aye but will 4 times as much in such a supposedly great location cost the same? I don't know I'm asking.

[Garlogie_Granite]

Aye but will 4 times as much in such a supposedly great location cost the same? I don't know I'm asking.

Kingsford is brownfield, it's landfill, it's never used as arable land, it's cheap.

 

kings Links doesnt just have land, it has a large driving range to be bought out and demolition costs, plus the huge cost of stabilising the sand base.

[Garlogie_Granite]

The X40 goes from the park and ride to Merkland Road and has 21 cars parked at it during a game.

I had no idea, I shun buses.

[Edinburghdon]

The last survey put over half going to bars or restaurants before a game and I've not seen how this is accounted for or replaced at Kingsford. And we're talking 4000 more taking a bus with walkers turning to bus, bus to mostly two buses and driving to a bus. It's all unattractive stuff. The ghost town park and rides show that anyone with a car isn't going to do this or why aren't those in westhill and kingswells etc doing this now when the option is there. Anyone on a bus only would want it from basically their street to the ground as there is now, which is very underused as it is.

 

It wouldn't stop you going to a bar before the game though would it? The people in the city centre can still go to the same bars as before the only difference is having to take a bus rather than walk to the game, admittedly it'd mean leaving earlier but it certainly doesnt stop it completely. It also doesn't stop people using the existing bars in Westhill/Kingswells nor the planned fan bar. That's before the possibility of additional bars opening in the area once the demand is there (bit of an assumption but not a huge stretch of the imagination).

 

You're also basing the number of buses required on current routes, do you really think that additional routes from elsewhere in the city wont be put on once there's a demand for it? The bus companies arent stupid, if there's a demand for routes and it'll make them money then they'll soon provide additional routes. It's naive to think otherwise. Again I totally get it'll be a change to current habits, one which may not be as convenient but i really don't think its the disaster some are making out. It'll also be more convenient for just as many from other areas.

 

No idea why the kingswells park and ride isnt used currently, I know other park and rides are used fairly regularly though so it is something that works well. There's no reason this cant work on a larger scale once it is required.

 

I was surprised there's only 20 ten people boxes in the plans when the RDS and main have a lot more and all the lounge and seat options. I was really expecting them to go most of the way around or two levels with skyboxes and the like that other stadiums of the same cost have and what I assumed Milne was most impressed by at Groningen.

Maybe so, but there's more to the hospitality than just the boxes, I'm fairly certain when you compare the boxes/lounges at pittodrie to the boxes/lounges at kingsford you'll see there's a big increase and kingsford has been designed in a way to improve efficiency with regards to hospitality catering etc.

 

 

The land at kingsford is 4 times the size of the golf centre and cricket pitch.

 

 

Do you have any info on the cost of that land? Or the difference taking into account the additional site preparation required as mentioned by Tom_widdows? Or buying/relocating the driving range? Is the site at kings links also big enough for training facilities too? If not you'll be looking at additional cost of buying more land, site prep etc. Your £4 million estimate soon increases massively. I do agree it'd be a preferable site if it was a. possible and b. cost effective. I can't say I've seen any evidence of that so far though...

 

 

Regarding the TA there's 12 bus services dispersing in all directions on King Street and Golf Road according to the Pittodrie houses application. There are walking links and then buses to every corner of the world from union street which is half the distance of to Kingswells park and ride. Got the train as well. It passes every part of sustainability. The AWPR is also supposed to take heaps of traffic out of the city centre.

 

If there's a TA been done to show all this and includes the volume of people using it with regards to a stadium then fair enough, I'd be amazed if it passes given the time taken to clear traffic after games.  With it being a new assessment you cant just get away with saying it'll be no worse than currently, which is pretty bad any time we have a decent sized crowd.

 

Which is one of the big points that gets missed. Depending on who I'm gan to the fitba with, they're either North of the City, West End of the city, the city centre or BOD (fariver the fuck that is). It's easy to converge on the city centre and pick up on the way if required. If there's a 3 person limit on cars, then that's a huge turn off for me as I wouldn't be able to comply. I don't suppose I'm the only one who meets others arriving in different vehicles/buses etc from different locations. I'm assuming they couldn't police this at Arnhall, and so in turn the parking for X number of cars with 3 people becomes ever more unrealistic.

 

 

I may have missed it but where has it been said that people need to have 3 in their car in order to drive to the site? Cant really see that being enforceable given the club wont control all parking options. Fair enough if it is going to be an enforced rule, I agree that'd be a ballache.

 

Anyway, ED you mention the (un)likelihood of people not going because of a small change in journey. I think that hugely underestimates the modern individual. A recent study I read by Microsoft and Google on the likelihood of websites being a success stated that by slowing a website down by 250milliseconds it will be abandoned over time. Convenience is paramount, that's how we've designed our society today (I'm not saying that's a good thing). Grown men actually go to the shops instead of the fitba today. It's fucked up, but out of sight out of mind  Pittodrie will have to buck a few trends in order to get more folks through the door in a sustained fashion.

 

Don't get me wrong, some people may well decide its too inconvenient getting to the stadium (pretty sure the inconvenience is being exaggerated though but that's just my opinion.

 

Anyone that lives in or near those areas and drives to Pittodrie, why aren't they taking the bus or driving to a park and ride and taking the bus? For the same reason, nobody is going to do the equivalent to westhill and it's pie in the sky. Relying on 6000 to 10000 doing that is madness and not a small change to get used to.

 

Regarding attitudes towards bus travel, I do it all the time and hate it because it's uncomfortable. Someone sitting next to you on a Stagecoach is very uncomfortable. Buses at full capacity going from Union Street up Queen's Road (...) is horrendous.

 

No idea about kingswells but I know for a fact the park and rides elsewhere are used by fans outwith the city to park at and get the bus to the stadium, it seems to work well and the buses seem pretty quick and regular.

 

One final point, whats so different in taking a bus at capacity from union street to kingsford and taking a bus at capacity from king street to union street/further? Not a lot... The buses are frequently at capacity (or close to it) on route back to the city centre after games. all you're doing is adding a bit to the journey, which given half the journey will be dual carriageway rather than a gridlocked King Street will offset the increased distance somewhat I'd imagine.

[100% Anti Kingsford]

I have no intention of getting involved much further in pathetic virtual/cyber arguments about 'not being a AFC fan' and being 'a member of No Kingsford Campaign' or being 'Charlie somebody'.

 

Ignorant, childish, very untrue, infantile garbage but very typical of football forums.

 

Nobody seems to appreciate that Kingsford, its not about land being available or deliverable.  The site is not accessible by foot, cars and bicycles and contravenes just about every single planning statute and regulation going.

 

You can't just build something as 'we need a new stadium' and this land is available. Does not work that way. 

 

What else do the locals on here need to appreciate this?

 

Kingsford is a 'punt' and the club have (again) messed up its plans for a new stadium and let down McInnes and the players.  Amateurish, slipshod, rushed and a total fantasy of a submission.

 

Its one thing childish cretins on here getting all nippy as to my views just cause you do not agree with their own cliquey in house virtual agenda and house rules but it's another thing the club facing up to the fact that their planning and transport assessment is a big steaming pile of horse crap and have gone into a sulk about it.

 

June 20th I will be back on here and having a laugh as our clubs 'vision' goes down the tiolet........

 

 

[RicoS321]

I have no intention of getting involved much further in pathetic virtual/cyber arguments about 'not being a AFC fan' and being 'a member of No Kingsford Campaign' or being 'Charlie somebody'.

 

Ignorant, childish, very untrue, infantile garbage but very typical of football forums.

 

Its one thing childish cretins on here getting all nippy as to my views just cause you do not agree with their own cliquey in house virtual agenda and house rules but it's another thing the club facing up to the fact that their planning and transport assessment is a big steaming pile of horse crap and have gone into a sulk about it.

 

June 20th I will be back on here and having a laugh as our clubs 'vision' goes down the tiolet........

 

I have a question.

[donsdaft]

No you won't

 

 

I'm pretty sure that is all sorted already

[manc_don]

I have no intention of getting involved much further in pathetic virtual/cyber arguments about 'not being a AFC fan' and being 'a member of No Kingsford Campaign' or being 'Charlie somebody'.

 

Ignorant, childish, very untrue, infantile garbage but very typical of football forums.

 

Nobody seems to appreciate that Kingsford, its not about land being available or deliverable.  The site is not accessible by foot, cars and bicycles and contravenes just about every single planning statute and regulation going.

 

You can't just build something as 'we need a new stadium' and this land is available. Does not work that way. 

 

What else do the locals on here need to appreciate this?

 

Kingsford is a 'punt' and the club have (again) messed up its plans for a new stadium and let down McInnes and the players.  Amateurish, slipshod, rushed and a total fantasy of a submission.

 

Its one thing childish cretins on here getting all nippy as to my views just cause you do not agree with their own cliquey in house virtual agenda and house rules but it's another thing the club facing up to the fact that their planning and transport assessment is a big steaming pile of horse crap and have gone into a sulk about it.

 

June 20th I will be back on here and having a laugh as our clubs 'vision' goes down the tiolet........

 

Ignoring all the bile in there, you've yet to back up your claims about alternative sites being offered by the council to the club.  I think you'll find we've been more than happy to engage with Jess who has coherent arguments which deserve responding to rather than erratic statements.  Take a moment, breathe and think before writing. And just as an FYI, I think you'll find a few of us are more than au fait with the planning and construction processes, especially of stadia.

 

Edit: I'd also like to add, not everyone on here is in the pro stadium camp, it's call debate.

[Edinburghdon]

I have no intention of getting involved much further in pathetic virtual/cyber arguments about 'not being a AFC fan' and being 'a member of No Kingsford Campaign' or being 'Charlie somebody'.

 

Ignorant, childish, very untrue, infantile garbage but very typical of football forums.

 

Nobody seems to appreciate that Kingsford, its not about land being available or deliverable.  The site is not accessible by foot, cars and bicycles and contravenes just about every single planning statute and regulation going.

 

You can't just build something as 'we need a new stadium' and this land is available. Does not work that way. 

 

What else do the locals on here need to appreciate this?

 

Kingsford is a 'punt' and the club have (again) messed up its plans for a new stadium and let down McInnes and the players.  Amateurish, slipshod, rushed and a total fantasy of a submission.

 

Its one thing childish cretins on here getting all nippy as to my views just cause you do not agree with their own cliquey in house virtual agenda and house rules but it's another thing the club facing up to the fact that their planning and transport assessment is a big steaming pile of horse crap and have gone into a sulk about it.

 

June 20th I will be back on here and having a laugh as our clubs 'vision' goes down the tiolet........

 

Welcome back!

 

Have I missed the childish virtual arguments? Must have been hidden in amongst all the genuine points and attempts to debate with you... same goes for saying you're not a dons fan. 

 

As far as I can tell there's only really been one person getting nippy, or gone into a sulk about any points raised. You might want to clear your head and read through the posts again as if anyone got nippy or gone in a huff due to points being challenged (with many considered and valid points  ) it's been you.  There's been various other posters on here that have raised negative points about the plan such as jess and they've been discussed pretty well on both sides from what I can see. to say anyone with an differing opinion is met with people being nippy is quite frankly bollocks. No offence or anything...

 

For what it's worth though it's already been pointed out that it is accessible by car, foot and bike... the scale of that accessibility isn't ideal but to say it's not accessible is untrue.

 

You say people don't appreciate that having land and needing a stadium Isn't reason to just build it. Read the thread again because I don't think anyone posting about this seriously does not know there's a process to be followed. There's been some really considered points put to you in this thread and they've all been ignored before your toys went out the pram. As Manc mentioned there's a few on here with first hand knowledge of the process relating to stadia too.

 

How are you getting on with letting us all know what land the club have been offered by the way? I've been on the edge of my seat for days now. Or does throwing your toys out of the pram the second anyone responds in a reasonable way to your points say it all?

[jess]

It wouldn't stop you going to a bar before the game though would it? The people in the city centre can still go to the same bars as before the only difference is having to take a bus rather than walk to the game, admittedly it'd mean leaving earlier but it certainly doesnt stop it completely. It also doesn't stop people using the existing bars in Westhill/Kingswells nor the planned fan bar. That's before the possibility of additional bars opening in the area once the demand is there (bit of an assumption but not a huge stretch of the imagination.

 

The other transport assessment points this out because if people do this and union street is still a meeting point the number of buses required from the city centre is beyond belief. It would also be adding a significant extra cost and is not a good experience.

 

You're also basing the number of buses required on current routes, do you really think that additional routes from elsewhere in the city wont be put on once there's a demand for it? The bus companies arent stupid, if there's a demand for routes and it'll make them money then they'll soon provide additional routes. It's naive to think otherwise. Again I totally get it'll be a change to current habits, one which may not be as convenient but i really don't think its the disaster some are making out. It'll also be more convenient for just as many from other areas.

 

I don't think so or the bus companies would have proposed it when the club discussed it with them. It appears to be unsustainable in terms of number of buses required to go to an out of town location.

 

Maybe so, but there's more to the hospitality than just the boxes, I'm fairly certain when you compare the boxes/lounges at pittodrie to the boxes/lounges at kingsford you'll see there's a big increase and kingsford has been designed in a way to improve efficiency with regards to hospitality catering etc.

 

There's a 50 club lounge, match sponsor's lounge and 4 hospitality suites. There's probably just more floor space than the RDS but so much of it is taken up with other things.

 

Do you have any info on the cost of that land? Or the difference taking into account the additional site preparation required as mentioned by Tom_widdows? Or buying/relocating the driving range? Is the site at kings links also big enough for training facilities too? If not you'll be looking at additional cost of buying more land, site prep etc. Your £4 million estimate soon increases massively. I do agree it'd be a preferable site if it was a. possible and b. cost effective though.

 

No it's blanked out of the business case. The golf centre's last available turnover is £1.5m and profit around £100,000. How much is the land at Kingsford and how much to maintain? Auchenhowie costs nearly £2m a year.

 

Why we haven't at least just bought land in the middle of nowhere for football pitches I don't know unless someone can explain.

 

I may have missed it but where has it been said that people need to have 3 in their car in order to drive to the site? Cant really see that being enforceable given the club wont control all parking options. Fair enough if it is going to be an enforced rule, I agree that'd be a ballache.

 

That's the number required for the parking spaces available firstly. And what ACC said would have to be enforced if they want to get away with using those numbers at the ground.

 

One final point, whats so different in taking a bus at capacity from union street to kingsford and taking a bus at capacity from king street to union street/further? Not a lot... The buses are frequently at capacity (or close to it) on route back to the city centre after games. all you're doing is adding a bit to the journey, which given half the journey will be dual carriageway rather than a gridlocked King Street will offset the increased distance somewhat I'd imagine.

 

One empties on the way. It takes about 35 minutes from union street to the dual carriageway.

[jess]

but it's another thing the club facing up to the fact that their planning and transport assessment is a big steaming pile of horse crap and have gone into a sulk about it.

 

Well, I agree there. 

[Edinburghdon]

The other transport assessment points this out because if people do this and union street is still a meeting point the number of buses required from the city centre is beyond belief. It would also be adding a significant extra cost and is not a good experience.

 

There's nothing to say union street has to be a meeting point for everyone though is there? Should there be additional routes put on to meet demand there's nothing stopping people travelling directly from dyce etc. Fair enough a lot of buses are required but we're lucky to have a rather large and successful bus company in the city, do you really think additional buses are a show stopper? The key is securing additional routes and additional buses during peak times.

 

I'll agree taking the bus isn't a great experience. But neither is walking in the pissing rain... it's hardly a terrible journey. I remember when I lived in Edinburgh, getting a bus across town to go to Easter road etc to see aberdeen took a bit of time and was often really busy for a large part of the journey but it wasn't too bad, with the right planning in place it's an inconvenience rather than a nightmare. It's hardly a significant cost either...

 

 

I don't think so or the bus companies would have proposed it when the club discussed it with them. It appears to be unsustainable in terms of number of buses required to go to an out of town location.

 

Do you know they've not proposed this? Do you genuinely believe the bus companies won't put on additional buses or routes if there's demand?

 

I'm also sure I've read various bars in town have looked at running buses directly from bars, sure the pittodrie bar etc were mentioned. All would reduce reliance on cars, normal bus routes etc.

There's a 50 club lounge, match sponsor's lounge and 4 hospitality suites. There's probably just more floor space than the RDS but so much of it is taken up with other things.

 

Taken up with other things such as?

 

The club have already made a big point about the corporate facilities being greatly enhanced in both design and quantity, I don't see anything in the plans to suggest otherwise, apologies if I've missed something though...

 

No it's blanked out of the business case. The golf centre's last available turnover is £1.5m and profit around £100,000. How much is the land at Kingsford and how much to maintain? Auchenhowie costs nearly £2m a year.

 

So already it's obvious buying/relocating the driving range is going to be expensive even before the other factors previously mentioned are taken into account? No idea about maintaining the site at kingsford but it stands to reason that maintaining 1 site is cheaper than 2.

 

Why we haven't at least just bought land in the middle of nowhere for football pitches I don't know unless someone can explain.

 

I'd imagine it's because there's a planning process to follow, it'd be madness to buy land somewhere without knowing we can get planning. Suspect the club are realistic enough to realise having a separate site will increase costs massively.

 

viously mentioned are taken into account?

 

That's the number required for the parking spaces available firstly. And what ACC said would have to be enforced if they want to get away with using those numbers at the ground.

 

 

Ah ok, I'd genuinely missed that when I read the application documents, does it account for the smaller amount of on dteeet marking in the industrial estates? Or the use of the park and ride and shuttles from there? Because both would reduce reliance on the clubs parking. Same goes for the potential for agreements with other companies or prime 4 car parks in westhill? Small gains but it'll all improve things.

 

viously mentioned are taken into account?

 

One empties on the way. It takes about 35 minutes from union street to the dual carriageway.

 

Good point, I'll give you that one... I'd question 35 mins based on the last time I took the bus to westhill but I guess it can be close to that to westhill, don't agree about it taking that long to reach the dual carriageway. . It'd be less for football specials though for what it's worth.

 

 

[Edinburghdon]

Well, I agree there. 

 

Don't think anyone's claimed it's perfect, the potential for improvement is there though!

[Garlogie_Granite]

I have no intention of getting involved much further in pathetic virtual/cyber arguments about 'not being a AFC fan' and being 'a member of No Kingsford Campaign' or being 'Charlie somebody'..

 

My apologies, I recognise your style now, welcome to the forum Heather, you'll know me from our frequent emails of late. 

 

 

 

Nobody seems to appreciate that Kingsford, its not about land being available or deliverable.  The site is not accessible by foot, cars and bicycles and contravenes just about every single planning statute and regulation going.

Well, forgive me here, but having lived all my life in the area, there's a cycle lane, a pavement, and a fucking dual carriageway running right along the edge of the landfill field that is the site of the new stadium. Right up to the fence in that field. It couldn't be more accessible by all modes of transport as far as sites in the north east goes.

 

 

You can't just build something as 'we need a new stadium' and this land is available. Does not work that way. 

 

What else do the locals on here need to appreciate this?

"we", it's "we" when talking about "us", unless of course thats an unintended slip in your cunning disguise?

 

And yes "you" can just do that, it's what nearly every town in the country does, except Aberdeen, it's why even a financially crippled (in comparison) Dundee has been so innovative and forward looking, while Aberdeen has a well deserved reputation as NIMBY city.

 

 

 

 

June 20th I will be back on here and having a laugh as our clubs 'vision' goes down the tiolet........

Aye, some fan you eh? It's funny, you know so much about forums, and yet are nowhere on any of them until yesterday, when you signed up to vent your pro-W.A.N.K.S. and anti-Dons agenda, some would say that's suspicious, but not me, I'm sure you;re a fan really.

 

 

Anyway, about that "well known bit of land that ACC are donating", care to expand, because nobody knows anything about it?

[jess]

There's nothing to say union street has to be a meeting point for everyone though is there? Should there be additional routes put on to meet demand there's nothing stopping people travelling directly from dyce etc. Fair enough a lot of buses are required but we're lucky to have a rather large and successful bus company in the city, do you really think additional buses are a show stopper? The key is securing additional routes and additional buses during peak times.

 

I'll agree taking the bus isn't a great experience. But neither is walking in the pissing rain... it's hardly a terrible journey. I remember when I lived in Edinburgh, getting a bus across town to go to Easter road etc to see aberdeen took a bit of time and was often really busy for a large part of the journey but it wasn't too bad, with the right planning in place it's an inconvenience rather than a nightmare. It's hardly a significant cost either...

 

Do you know they've not proposed this? Do you genuinely believe the bus companies won't put on additional buses or routes if there's demand?

 

I'm also sure I've read various bars in town have looked at running buses directly from bars, sure the pittodrie bar etc were mentioned. All would reduce reliance on cars, normal bus routes etc.

Taken up with other things such as?

 

The club have already made a big point about the corporate facilities being greatly enhanced in both design and quantity, I don't see anything in the plans to suggest otherwise, apologies if I've missed something though...

So already it's obvious buying/relocating the driving range is going to be expensive even before the other factors previously mentioned are taken into account? No idea about maintaining the site at kingsford but it stands to reason that maintaining 1 site is cheaper than 2.

 

I'd imagine it's because there's a planning process to follow, it'd be madness to buy land somewhere without knowing we can get planning. Suspect the club are realistic enough to realise having a separate site will increase costs massively.

 

 

Ah ok, I'd genuinely missed that when I read the application documents, does it account for the smaller amount of on dteeet marking in the industrial estates? Or the use of the park and ride and shuttles from there? Because both would reduce reliance on the clubs parking. Same goes for the potential for agreements with other companies or prime 4 car parks in westhill? Small gains but it'll all improve things.

 

viously mentioned are taken into account?

Good point, I'll give you that one... I'd question 35 mins based on the last time I took the bus to westhill but I guess it can be close to that to westhill, don't agree about it taking that long to reach the dual carriageway. . It'd be less for football specials though for what it's worth.

 

I don't believe they did or could offer extra bus routes because I don't think it's feasible. Sending new buses to a location away from everything, stopping for hours and sending them back isn't what public ones can do and the TA says those limited plans already account for all public buses available.

 

By significant cost I mean it's about £6. Over a season is huge.

 

Football pitches - are there really any planning concerns for just pitches? What stops someone owning land growing grass in the shape of a pitch with white paint on it? I don't know

 

The parking has all been counted as 3 to a car next to the ground, in the park and ride and business parks which has obviously blown it apart, with only about 3000 total spaces.

[Edinburghdon]

I don't believe they did or could offer extra bus routes because I don't think it's feasible. Sending new buses to a location away from everything, stopping for hours and sending them back isn't what public ones can do and the TA says those limited plans already account for all public buses available.

 

By significant cost I mean it's about £6. Over a season is huge.

 

Football pitches - are there really any planning concerns for just pitches? What stops someone owning land growing grass in the shape of a pitch with white paint on it? I don't know

 

The parking has all been counted as 3 to a car next to the ground, in the park and ride and business parks which has obviously blown it apart, with only about 3000 total spaces.

 

Why would the buses have to stop for hours then send them back? That would be mad... do know for sure they haven't even discussed additional routes? Again that would seem to go against any kind of logic when it has the potential to make the bus companies a significant amount of money? Just surprises me that would be the case!

 

Appreciate £6 mounts up but surely a significant number of people from within the city already spend that money on buses seeing as it's not possible to walk from everywhere in Aberdeen to pittodrie?

 

Of course there's significant planning issues for adequate training facilities, it would have to be more than a couple of pitches...it's professional facilities we are talking about not an open patch of grass for a kick about. That's before factoring in changing, catering and other fitness/physio facilities.

 

Fair enough if the 3 per car will be enforced for the clubs parking, the park and ride and any businesses car parks, I geneuinely cant see that being enforceable or even reasonable. There's space to park along the roads at the business parks too which will help although appreciate not by much.  At the end of the day it just comes back to what I've said before... if they sort the TA out, make buses as convenient as possible then there will be enough parking & park and ride facilities for this to work. Which in the complete absence of a viable alternative is the best I reckon we can hope for.

[Garlogie_Granite]

 

 

Appreciate £6 mounts up but surely a significant number of people from within the city already spend that money on buses seeing as it's not possible to walk from everywhere in Aberdeen to pittodrie?

It's a nonsensical argument ED, it's assuming that for every fan being possibly inconvenienced, there is no-one who will be advantaged. It's been the argument behind nearly every anti-mover since this possibility first emerged, and has been adopted by the W.A.N.K.S latterly.

 

What it surely willfully ignores, is those who are now convenienced by this change, I'm one such recipient, as a country loon, I've never held a ST, I don't make every game, and one of the reasons is the horrible location of Pittodrie, some days you just don't want to go through toon and suffer the search for a parking spot, and then the fight to get back across King Street to get home again afterwards (especially midweek games as I'm an early riser). Move to Kingsford and I will proudly buy my first ever season ticket, hell, I'll be first in the bloody queue!

 

Large areas of Aberdeen will find getting to Kingsford much easier than getting to Pittodrie, and everyone in the country will, everyone, bar none, from the south you take the AWPR and never hit the city, from the north you hit the AWPR at Balmedie and never hit the city, from the A96 you get onto the AWPR at Craibstone and never have to suffer the slog along Auchmill Rd & Great Northern Rd, and from Deeside/Donside, you get to Westhill, and stop, the end, sheer bliss.

 

So yes, personally I'm a huge beneficiary, but trust me, if I thought it would hurt the club, I'd be fully against this, because the last thing we need after 19 years of decline, is for the subsequent three years of resurgence to go backwards due to the building of a white elephant. But I don't believe it will be, I honestly believe that building somewhere that has great transport access will address Aberdeen's long standing sore - why cant we get the crowds that our success at various stages merits? - and that's because Pittodrie has always been in the wrong place.

[jess]

Why would the buses have to stop for hours then send them back? That would be mad... do know for sure they haven't even discussed additional routes? Again that would seem to go against any kind of logic when it has the potential to make the bus companies a significant amount of money? Just surprises me that would be the case!

 

Appreciate £6 mounts up but surely a significant number of people from within the city already spend that money on buses seeing as it's not possible to walk from everywhere in Aberdeen to pittodrie?

 

Of course there's significant planning issues for adequate training facilities, it would have to be more than a couple of pitches...it's professional facilities we are talking about not an open patch of grass for a kick about. That's before factoring in changing, catering and other fitness/physio facilities.

 

Fair enough if the 3 per car will be enforced for the clubs parking, the park and ride and any businesses car parks, I geneuinely cant see that being enforceable or even reasonable. There's space to park along the roads at the business parks too which will help.

 

What is the other option for the buses? They're not sending them on routes they're not required on and in the time available.

 

Furthest stagecoach return in the city is £3.25.

 

The places they've used for years are barely professional either and what I'm basing on what I can't believe we can't have done in years out in the sticks. What are we looking at for this?

 

[Garlogie_Granite]

 

 

The places they've used for years are barely professional either

 

 

That's the bloody point ffs!  :hammer: :hammer: >

[jess]

It's a nonsensical argument ED, it's assuming that for every fan being possibly inconvenienced, there is no-one who will be advantaged. It's been the argument behind nearly every anti-mover since this possibility first emerged, and has been adopted by the W.A.N.K.S latterly.

 

What it surely willfully ignores, is those who are now convenienced by this change, I'm one such recipient, as a country loon, I've never held a ST, I don't make every game, and one of the reasons is the horrible location of Pittodrie, some days you just don't want to go through toon and suffer the search for a parking spot, and then the fight to get back across King Street to get home again afterwards (especially midweek games as I'm an early riser). Move to Kingsford and I will proudly buy my first ever season ticket, hell, I'll be first in the bloody queue!

 

Large areas of Aberdeen will find getting to Kingsford much easier than getting to Pittodrie, and everyone in the country will, everyone, bar none, from the south you take the AWPR and never hit the city, from the north you hit the AWPR at Balmedie and never hit the city, from the A96 you get onto the AWPR at Craibstone and never have to suffer the slog along Auchmill Rd & Great Northern Rd, and from Deeside/Donside, you get to Westhill, and stop, the end, sheer bliss.

 

So yes, personally I'm a huge beneficiary, but trust me, if I thought it would hurt the club, I'd be fully against this, because the last thing we need after 19 years of decline, is for the subsequent three years of resurgence to go backwards due to the building of a white elephant. But I don't believe it will be, I honestly believe that building somewhere that has great transport access will address Aberdeen's long standing sore - why cant we get the crowds that our success at various stages merits? - and that's because Pittodrie has always been in the wrong place.

 

Surely you're more concerned about it being harder for a huge percentage of current crowds and season ticket holders or what's the thinking there? For you not being in the city is a good thing and for over half it's part of the day.

[Edinburghdon]

What is the other option for the buses? They're not sending them on routes they're not required on and in the time available.

 

Furthest stagecoach return in the city is £3.25.

 

The places they've used for years are barely professional either and what I'm basing on what I can't believe we can't have done in years out in the sticks. What are we looking at for this?

 

 

How about any sensible solution that is even slightly efficient? Like multiple trips with buses? They could even serve other routes during the match. They don't need to be sitting around doing nothing though!

 

Ok so £3.25 is the furthest return, who's to say football specials won't be priced similarly? You're falling into the trap of taking an unknown and assuming the worst case.

 

The whole point of getting training facilities is making sure they're fit for purpose? Are you really suggesting they should just scrape together something that's not fit for purpose and no better than the shocking facilities they currently have?! 

[tom_widdows]

Just want to chuck in that the Standard parking requirement for stadia is Scotland (as adopted by ACC and numerous other councils) is 1 space per 15 seats + a transport assessment be it city centre, inner city, or the  outskirts

 

20000 seat stadium therefore is only obliged to provide 1,334 parking spaces. Current proposal provides 1,598 which is 1 space per 12.5 seats.

5 people per car = 7,990 fans

 

If parking capacity using other nearby facilities saw that increased to 3000 that would be 1 space per 7.

up to 15,000 fans (more if people carriers are used)

 

92 coach parking spaces at 42-75 seats each = 3,864 - 6,900 fans

 

Then you add in the people using public transport, being dropped off, cycling, or walking.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Garlogie_Granite]

Surely you're more concerned about it being harder for a huge percentage of current crowds and season ticket holders or what's the thinking there? For you not being in the city is a good thing and for over half it's part of the day.

You didnt even read and think there did you?

 

Only a small percentage of the current half of our fanbase will be disadvantaged. We're starting from a point where 50% (all the tuechters) will be better off.

 

Then many of the other 50% will be better off travel wise or no difference, think Dyce, Bucksburn, Sheddocksley, Mastrick, Northfield, Hazelhead,  Culter, Cults, Milltimber, Bieldside, Garthdee, Cove.

 

So yes, those in central Aberdeen, Seaton, Linksfield, Tilly, Bridge of Don, yes those guys will be worse off, they've had it good forever, they have no devine right to be able to (almost) walk to every home game.

 

Let's assume all of the former groups still go - because why wouldnt they now when it's easier to get to?

 

Let's also assume that most of the latter group still go - because they're dons fans, but there will be a drop off.

 

Now where does the gain come - from all over the hinterland,because like me, those who do actually have a decent commute to make to get to "Pittodrie" will suddenly have a much reduced travel, whereas those on the king st area (the "worst affected") will have the massive 6 mile journey to make that they previously didn't. The upside is massive, the downside is small.

 

Best location was Bellfield, but the Kingswells NIMBYs blew that up 15 years ago, don't let the Westhill W.A.N.K.S. do the same!!!

 

 

 

[jess]

How about any sensible solution that is even slightly efficient? Like multiple trips with buses? They could even serve other routes during the match. They don't need to be sitting around doing nothing though!

 

Ok so £3.25 is the furthest return, who's to say football specials won't be priced similarly? You're falling into the trap of taking an unknown and assuming the worst case.

 

The whole point of getting training facilities is making sure they're fit for purpose? Are you really suggesting they should just scrape together something that's not fit for purpose and no better than the shocking facilities they currently have?! 

 

If the updated transport information confirms anything other than the current bus and price arrangements as now I'll accept I'm being blind to a business case here. 

 

The point of training facilities is they don't have guaranteed pitches to use at the moment. I've not seen McInnes or anyone complain about anything else.

 

Just having a pitch and pavilion is the case all over the world.