kelt

My original quote? Let's take a look at my original quote,the one you chose to take issue with. No, my original quote was about the likelyhood of Maguire improving his game. Not about players, but specifically about Maguire. In fact, my reply to you was ENTIRELY and SOLEY about strikers.. not about ANY OTHER position. And here it is, since you clearly 'forgot'. I then went on to say that we'd been able to bring on a very small handful of defenders, but that we didn't have a track record of deveoping good midfielders, goalkeepers and attackers. THAT you chose to ignore, by then reiterating the names of the defenders I'd ALREADY mentioned, then adding Hart who to all intents and purposes was shite when he left us and showed improvement when he returned. Defenders like Diamond and Anderson improved at Pittodrie. McNaughton I also conceded, but the fact is that he had stagnated at Pittodrie, and now that he's left he's on the fringes of international football, which is again a testimony to how innefective our coaching is. But nice try.

Seems I was wrong about Mackie. From Dons Mad

I've already pointed out that physically they will inevitably improve. They may even improve slightly in skill, but I'm talking about developing a player. Take Mackie. He still smacks his shots over the bar when he's clear, he still knocks the ball at the goalkeeper. He hasn't developed any little tricks, his composure hasn't improved in all the time I've seen him. When he came into the team his one thing was his pace. Here we are about 7 seasons later and what's his one attribute? His pace. He's been taught nothing. I use Mackie as an example because he's our longest serving striker, and as such is a reasonably benchmark by which to measure our training techniques. Or lack of. They probably improve to a certain extent, particularly physically. I remember when Jess and Booth broke through, Jess in particular had these little stick legs. A couple of seasons later and he had muscles on his legs like any other SPL player. My concern is that we don't have a competent coaching staff, and if our players ARE learning anything to develop their game on the skills side of things, I'm not aware of it. Still waiting for you to get me up to speed with the success stories our forwards coaches can point to that might, somehow, point to me being wrong about the likelyhood of Maguire developing to any measurable extent, btw.

You keep forgetting my point. I'll remind you. He didn't improve at Aberdeen, regardless of whether he was brought 'through the ranks'. He was still pish, and no-one was particularly bothered when he was released. In fact the general consencus, when we heard he was returning, was "Crap". When he came back we discovered he was better than when he left. Again, you seem to be trying to make my point something other than it is. Has Young improved? In what respect? Yes? how? How old was he when he played there? There's going to be an improvement in physical ability just by way of getting older and packing on muscles. What areas has there been a noticeable improvement in Considine? Ah, so he was played out of position? So how did that help him improve his game? As a winger, his supposed main role, he consistently refused to take his man on. Any team with decent coaches would surely have worked to develop that, no? I'm not saying no-one comes 'through the ranks'. we have a youth squad and sooner or later some of them will be released or given a role in the first team. That doesn't mean they're improving significantly. It means we have a paper thin squad. I'm saying, just to highlight my point for the 100th or so time, that we have no track record of developing so called 'talent'. Not since the likes of Booth, Jess, Robertson or Glass. And certainly a very, very poor track record in developing our strikers, again we were told that Bird, Prunty, Mike and especially Craig were all very promising youngsters. Then there was Bagshaw who was supposedly repeatedly played out of position in the reserves. Not sure how that improves the game of a youngster who's trying to learn his trade. In fact it might be fair to say that because we have no idea how to develop these players they end up going backwards. Indeed, that IS all. And a defender. And someone I'd already mentioned. One of a very few players that we have developed to any significant degree in recent years.

Hart was let go because he was pish. He came back a better player. The other 3 I'd already mentioned. Is average at best. See Considine Is atrocious and hasn't improved his game at all. And in all his time at Aberdeen was never coached to do one of the two things you look for in a winger.. go past his man. They're not only not the best players in the world, they're mediocre at best, sans those I already mentioned. That's correct. by pointing out that Aberdeen, as a club, has a track record of in no way improving the game of their players to any noticeable degree, I've demonstrated that my comment was realistic. I'd say that unless he proves himself to be the exception to the rule.. yes it is, and yes it will be.

I heard he tripped over his ain feet and the ball bounced in aff his face.

1-0 Aberdeen. Young 43 minutes. Awesome.

Like? We've had Zander and Russ.. both defenders. There's also been..... ? And from a forwards point of view there's been no-one since Booth and Jess. And that was so long ago they're both retired from the game. We don't produce keepers, midfielders or strikers, and we barely produce defenders with just Russ, Zander and McNaughton in recent years. The point was that you said my statement that he won't improve his game at Aberdeen was "..not a realistic statement" you haven't yet demonstrated why it's not a realistic statement.

It's entirely realistic. Our youth policy is pish, and whatever we do to 'coach' young attackers is completely ineffective. Look at the likes of Bird and Mike and Prunty and Craig... all brought in as 'exciting prospects', all failed miserably to do anything. Wyness and Mackie, Michie, brought through the ranks, Wyness left and Mackie is just as bad as he ever was. Michie ended up at Peterhead. Our best strikers in recent years have ALL been guys we've brought in from outside, rather than having improved their game at Aberdeen. Zeroali, Stavrum, Miller. I can't think of any young forward that has come to Aberdeen and improved his game. none that weren't the finished article and flourished at Pittodrie to become a good player. but hey, if you know different then let us hear about the successes.

I started following the Dons when Harper's career was winding down, and like yourself I've seen a huge number of strikers come and go. Mackie is probably in my top 5 worst strikers I've seen play in an Aberdeen shirt. Granted my views of him, and the team, are limited owing to my being on another continent, but I get to see a good few games on Redweb or, failing that, on some Chinese Channel using SOPCast and PPMate. And, unless Mackie only plays shite in the games I see, but plays great in the games I don't see, then I'd put him just behind the likes of Bird, Mike or Zdrilic as the player I'd least like to see trying to score our goals. The single most important thing a striker can do, and even if it's the ONLY thing he can do, is have an eye for goal and have the composure to put the ball in the net when he gets the chance. Duncan Shearer is the perfect example of a striker. Mackie could outpace Shearer if Shearer was in a Ferrari and Barren had his feet tied together. Shearer wasn't the most skillful player ever, but he knew where he was supposed to be, when he was supposed to be there, and how to put the ball in the net when it caught up with him. Gillhaus was probably the best striker ever to wear a Red shirt, that I've seen. A Tim 'mate' of mine commented after a game at Pittodrie that 'We (The Tims) shit ourselves every time he got the ball, because we knew he was going to score'. Any time I see Mackie collect the ball I'm of the mind that we've just wasted our chance. He'd be amongst the first punted if I ever managed that side. There's be a lot of players punted immediately, but Mackie would be one of the first. He's just dreadful.

Exactly, BB. It's a piss-take. Not expecting them to hammer Peterheid 10-0, but I want to see that the players we have possess a little competitiveness, and a degree of self-respect. The excuse is that they're trying to get match fit and don't want to get injured. It's a pretty weak excuse. If they want to just stroll through a match without trying a fuck then there's enough players in the squad to play practice matches with an Aberdeen A and B team, without the need to charge Aberdeen supporters 12 quid to watch the players stand around doing fuck all in Peterheid. Playing Peterhead would surely be considered a semi-competitive game, and for that reason alone a 4-0 humping is disgraceful. I think it just shows the mentality of the players we have at the club... and that's not a winning mentality.

Bit of a blast fae the past, but funny to think we were excited about this appointment. Wednesday, 11 December, 2002, 13:37 GMT Paterson named new Aberdeen boss Paterson (left) and Shearer take over at Pittodrie Aberdeen have appointed Steve Paterson and Duncan Shearer as their new managerial team. The pair were officially unveiled at a media conference at Pittodrie on Wednesday lunchtime. The current Inverness Caledonian Thistle manager and his assistant's move to Pittodrie had been Scottish football's worst-kept secret in recent days. After 48 hours of negotiations between all of the parties concerned, a compensation deal was agreed between the Dons and Caley Thistle, which includes a friendly between the sides. Is Paterson the right man? Dons chairman Stewart Milne said he was delighted to be welcoming "one of Scotland's brightest young managerial talents" to the club. Paterson admitted that it had been a wrench to leave Caley Thistle but said the move represented a chance to prove himself at a higher level. "To me Aberdeen is Scotland's third largest club and to have the chance to manage them is a huge opportunity," he added. Shearer, a hero as a player at the club, also said he had found it impossible to turn down the opportunity on offer. Caretaker manager Gardner Speirs and coach Drew Jarvie will be leaving Aberdeen, following Ebbe Skovdahl out the door. Steve and Duncan both like attacking football and will bring a positive attitude to this job Keith Wyness Aberdeen chief executive The First Division club must now turn their attention to a successor to Paterson, with Dundee United coach Maurice Malpas one of the names linked with the post. Gordon Dalziel at Ayr and Livingston coach John Robertson are other names being linked with the Highlanders. First-team affairs will be handled by director of football Graeme Bennett and coach John Docherty in the short term. The club had hoped to persuade Shearer to stay on to take over from Paterson once it became clear that the manager was on his way to Pittodrie. Caley Thistle released a statement on Wednesday thanking Paterson and Shearer for the commitment they had shown the club. The statement stated that the club had an idea of the type of man they wanted to replace Paterson and invited applications from people with managerial experience. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Aberdeen appoint Steve Paterson and Duncan Shearer as their new managerial team. Have the Dons have made the right choice? Inverness Caledonian Thistle management duo Paterson and Shearer have taken the reins at Pittodrie. The pair replace the departed Ebbe Skovdahl, leaving the future of caretaker manager Gardner Speirs in doubt. Former Dons player Shearer is already a popular figure with the fans, but Paterson will need to win them over with results. How do you think Paterson will fare in the Aberdeen hotseat? This debate is now closed. A selection of your e-mails appear below. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Good appointment, but Aberdeen need to sort out the malaise in the boardroom. The current regime has cut corners and invested badly for years, taking the club to new lows. Sacrificing managers doesn't change the real problems at Pittodrie. Milne and Donald need to come clean about the stadium, the club's financial position (and what they are doing about it) and what they intend to do about matters on the park. That said, I'll be there on Sunday, again... Steve Beagrie, Scotland I honestly never saw the problem with Ebbe. In a few years the young squad he was moulding would really be an exciting prospect, and it looked as if Ebbe had them all wanting to stay and not jump ship. Danny Paton, Belfast, Ireland What worries me is that the Aberdeen board are prepared to face paying up to £500,000 to pay off Ebbe et al as well as the compensation agreements. All this at a time when the club are supposed to be operating in a frugal manner. It's a farcical manoeuvre. Ewan Phipps, Scotland Paterson has achieved superb things with a very limited budget at Caley Thistle. He has created a good attacking team and I think is a great choice for Aberdeen. We will miss him in Inverness. Johnny Garden, Scotland What we have needed for five years. Now we have a dynamic team at the helm again let's build on the foundations left by Ebbe, Drew, Gardner and Stuart. Sandy Falconer, Hong Kong Good Luck Steve. You will be missed at Caley Thistle. Thanks for seven great years. Steve Grant, Scotland I hope that everything Steve Paterson does is not compared to Fergie. Aberdeen fans have to be realistic that beating Real and Bayern are very much in the past. I would be happy if we went to Glasgow and looked positive. Andrew Ballantyne, England Paterson and Shearer will be a fantastic management team Ewan, Scotland It's great that Skovdahl has finally gone. The club was going nowhere under his management. Paterson and Shearer will make the Dons a top-four team again with a chance in Europe. Graeme Paterson, Scotland Aberdeen should have gone for Paul Daniels, as only a magician can produce a successful side with zero resources. Paterson deserves a chance though to show what he can do at the highest level in Scotland. John Paul Forbes, Scotland Hmm. I wonder if they can bring the enthusiasm and pats on the back combination to get the remaining prima donnas at AFC to perform... Andrew B Davidson, Australia The board has taken their time but finally we've got the men to do the job. Paterson and Shearer will be a fantastic management team. Pele has proven himself at Huntly and Inverness CT and Big Dunc is a Dons legend. We might not have a great season as it's still Skovdahl's team but roll on 2003-2004!!! Ewan, Scotland I don't care as long as the Dons IMPROVE, I'm sick of taking stick from ex-pat Rangers and Celtic fans. George M, a lone Don, New Zealand As a Caley fan, I am sorry to see SP & DS go - however, you cannot deny them the opportunity to test themselves at a higher level. Good luck to you both and I hope Caley get a decent team in place shortly. Iain Stewart, England I am happy with the appointments and have a good feeling about the managerial change at Aberdeen. My only major concern is Stuart Milne, with comments like "establish Aberdeen as a major force in Scottish and European football" he has to be joking with the lack of cash. If he is that ambitious, "show me the money". Barry, England There will only be one time when Aberdeen are top of the SPL - at the start of the season Mark, Scotland I was exceptionally sad to see Ebbe go, and only hope that Paterson and Shearer can do the job. Personally, I would have preferred Rioch or Burley, as they are more experienced, but good luck Steve and Duncan. Keene Marin, Scotland Paterson has proved he is a winner so let's hope he can bring some silverware to Pittodrie once more. Definitely the right man for the job. Warren Grant, Scotland I refer to James Henderson, England. Aberdeen top of the SPL!? There will only be one time when Aberdeen are top of the SPL - at the start of the season when a ball hasn't been kicked!! I'll agree that Aberdeen are the third best team in Scotland but there's no way that Aberdeen will win the league while Rangers and Celtic are still playing in it. The new management team will do well, and they might even get the odd point off the Old Firm, but I don't think that any silverware will be returning to Aberdeen in the near future - if at all. It wouldn't even matter if Fergie came back. Mark, Scotland The new management team will restore pride and get the players playing attacking football. Gregor Suttie, Scotland Although I would have liked to see George Burley take the reigns at Pittodrie, I think Paterson and Shearer are the fans' favourites. Hopefully a young management team can bond with the young squad and see them fulfil their obvious potential. It is a must to hold onto Anderson, Maguire, and the Young brothers!! Craig, Scotland I see a number of parallels between Steve Paterson and Fergie Alan Robb, USA/Scotland George Burley would have been my top choice, but I think Paterson and Shearer can do the job. Aberdeen played so well against Rangers recently that there are enough signs of hope to see the Dons climbing back up the league and, who knows, maybe even challenging the Old Firm. Stuart Read, South Korea Brilliant appointment by Aberdeen. At last we will see the return of exiting football at Pittodrie! Craig Allardyce, Aberdeen Taking Shearer along for the ride too is a masterstroke! It will deflect attention away from Paterson if the early results don't go well as Shearer is still a hero at Pittodrie. The Dons just don't have the resources at the moment to get to where Paterson wants to go though. Martin Watt, Australia I started supporting the Dons a few months before Fergie took over in the '70s. I see a number of parallels between Steve Paterson and Fergie - here's hoping he can make us a team to be feared, rather than pitied, again. Alan Robb, USA/Scotland A great choice. A pair of enthusiastic, articulate, young guys with a track record of success on a low budget and an ability to get the best out of young players. What's more, they have a passion for attacking football and, more importantly, the club. Jim B, UK Definitely, at least we now have a manager who wont send a team out lay down and die at Parkhead, if Caley's Thistle 3-1 stunner is anything to go by. And about time too. Ian, Scotland Yes, I agree that the partnership of Paterson and Shearer will be a great one for Aberdeen FC and I look forward to seeing the Dons climb up the league to where they should be. Good luck to the new Northern Lights. Graeme Inglis, Scotland He has inherited a side very low on confidence Scotty C, Scotland 'Pele' will get the Dons back and ensure that Ebbe's legacy goes on! The building blocks are in place for the Dons to be back at the peak of Scottish football. And with so much financial and potential changes vis-a-vis the Auld Firm doing one, there is a chance we could be champions and dining at the top table in five years' time. Big Dunc can also show our shot-shy kids where the goals are! Scott Sneddon, Scotland I think Paterson and Shearer possess the right qualities to develop the foundations Ebbe Skovdahl has laid at Pittodrie. As sorry I was to see Ebbe leave, Paterson and Shearer were my favoured choice to take over. I think their attacking style will work well as we have a very good defensive pairing in Anderson and MacGuire. I wish them good luck. Ben Mullay, Scotland He is certainly going to need time as he has inherited a side very low on confidence. Hopefully big Dunc can get our strikers scoring goals again and Steve can take it from there. I think the majority of the fans are happy with the move and will look forward to a "positive" attitude when the Dons go to Glasgow. Scotty C, Scotland He is the right man for the job, but we have to accept there will not be changes overnight John, Hong Kong Paterson certainly has the pedigree of success within limited resources. And hopefully Shearer can help the strikers with their skills. Calum Thornton, UK Not sure about this one. Should have gone for a more experienced and charismatic manager such as Jim Jeffries. Scott Maylon, Scotland Most Aberdeen fans already know about Paterson and he was the most popular choice, so I see no reason why he would need to win over the fans. He will be given the time to turn things around. Paul Gray, UK It's taken Paterson a while to achieve the good things that are happening at Inverness now. I think he is the right man for the job, but we have to accept there will not be changes overnight. John, Hong Kong A young duo full of enthusiasim for the club will give players some fresh motivation and hopefully herald the start of a new era for the Dons! AndyR, Scotland Top young management team, just what the Reds need Alan Gordon, Scotland Paterson has an impressive record to date, and is probably the best man for the job at Aberdeen. On the negative side, this job has proved to be a poisoned chalice for every manager since Alex Ferguson left. Good luck to him. David Masson, Norway I would have liked to see George Burley take them to the top of the SPL or even better John Collins, but Paterson and Shearer should be the right combination for a little long-awaited success. Come on the Dons! James Henderson, England Top young management team, just what the Reds need. Alan Gordon, Scotland ----------------------------------------------------------- My favourite EMail... I see a number of parallels between Steve Paterson and Fergie Alan Robb, USA/Scotland

I happen to agree that (bar Miller) Lovell was our best (most natural) striker. However, in order to score goals you need to be on the field in the first place. The return we got from Lovell in terms of goals and performances was utter garbage, hence no qualms about not carrying him any longer.

I can see the gutless fucks that are the other teams in the SPL agreeing to this. Only club that might resist is Hearts... but our own club? They'll take the full length in the arse.

I also happen to be one realistic cunt.

The shape of things to come. If Duff and his buddies can't beat Peter-fucking-heid on a level playing field (pre-season when both teams are supposedly trying to get match fit) then this is a sad indictment of their ability. 4-0 means either the players we have are terminally shite (and in Duff's case this is absolutely correct) or they just didn't try a leg, and have no qualms about getting raped by a team of posties and as such have less self-respect than the homeless weegies that beg for money on Union Street. I don't want to hear a word of apology from this cunt. What I want is for him, and a number of his buddies, to get the fuck out of the club, permanently. And he can take Bossu with him, because neither are even the standard of player I would have in my reserve squad. Save your apologies, Duff. You're pish and I expect no more from you than being part of a team that either hasn't the ability or self respect to try against Peterheid. The people who should be apologising are Milne, Miller and Calderwood for bringing shite like you to the club in the first place.

He's not the guy who picked a peck of pickled peppers, is he?

This is no news at all. The club still has no new stadium. The club has no money to build a new stadium. The council isn't going to build the club a new stadium. There are no investors waiting to build us a new stadium. At this point all the feasibility studies in the word aren't going to make a pot of money appear with which to fund a new stadium. So the club can underwrite the cost of this feasibility study if it wants... doesn't make one fuck of a difference. One thing the club is good at is talking about what it's going to do. Another thing the club is good at is not doing what it was talking about doing.

Well, if he can get goals for some other team he'll be doing a fuckload more than he did for us. Strikers that rarely score are ten a penny, and we've already got that with Maguire and Mackie.. no need to have Lovell inna. Rated him when he signed, but he's done sweet fuck all. Can't see us missing him. The likes of Mair, Duff and Bossu need to follow him out the door.

He'd probably be better off at a club with professional facilities and a good youth development system. Hibs would be a fantastic place for him to learn his trade. He's got little to no chance of improving his game at a club like Aberdeen, so what you see is more or less what you're going to get. Agreed he's young, and he's at a stage where players begin to pack on some muscle, but if he wants to develop as a player he's at the wrong club. Did himself no favours signing a 3 year deal with us.

Saturday, 4 August, 2001, 17:58 GMT 18:58 UK Hearts edge out Aberdeen Hearts 1-0 Aberdeen A 20th minute strike from Hearts captain Colin Cameron was enough to earn the points for the Tynecastle side. Aberdeen ran them close and can consider themselves a little unfortunate not to have earned a draw. Aberdeen put the Hearts defence under pressure early on and won a free-kick outside the box when Scott Severin went in late on Derek Young. The resulting kick found its way to Ben Thornley but his effort was blocked by the Hearts defence. Hearts skipper Colin Cameron had a long range effort after 10 minutes following good work from Fulton and Mahe but the midfielder failed to find the target. Cameron's luck was in 10 minutes later, however, when he thundered Hearts into the lead from just inside the box after a McKenna knock down. Hearts were buoyed by Cameron's strike and began to knock the ball around purposefully. However Aberdeen still posed a threat and after 26 minutes Tomaschek was forced to head over his own bar after another good delivery from Thornley. A mistake by Severin then gave Derek Young a chance to shoot but Antti Niemi saved well. Eight minutes before the break Steve Fulton engineered an opening for himself with a tremendous run at the Dons defence but his shot hit the side netting. On the stroke of half-time, Gary Wales squandered a glorious chance to extend Hearts' lead, volleying over the top from close range after a knockdown from McKenna. Hearts slowed the game down in the second half but Aberdeen attempted to keep up the pressure in their search for an equaliser. Bisconti found Darren Young on the edge of the box and although the young forward turned well, his shot from 18 yard was easily taken by Niemi. There was a scare for the Dons in the 67th minute when goalkeeper David Preece conceded a corner after failing to clutch an in-swinging cross from Hearts' substitute McSwegan. Cameron almost snatched a spectacular second for Hearts seven minutes from time. He reacted quickly to a punched clearance from Dons goalkeeper David Preece and attempted a speculative bicycle kick which flew just over the bar. Three minutes later the Hearts captain had a more conventional opportunity to secure their win, but skewed the ball badly wide after eluding the Dons defence. Aberdeen put a lot of effort into the game but ultimately were unable to breach the Hearts defence. Hearts: Niemi, Severin, Mahe, Webster, Boyack, Tomaschek, Cameron, McKenna, Fulton, Wales, Adam. Subs: Aberdeen: Preece, Guntveit, McGuire, Whyte, McNaughton, Darren Young, Mackie, Bisconti, McAllister, Derek Young, Thornley. Subs: Esson, Rutkiewicz, Solberg, Tiernan, Bett. Referee: Bobby Orr

My opinion exactly. And a release clause with a longer term contract does nothing to change that. Oh, and...

A longer deal with a release clause shouldn't be out of the question. Hibs manage to persuade their youngsters to stay with the promise of release if a reasonable fee is met. Even a 150k release clause isn't too much to ask...

Out of the blue we sign, what looks like, a pretty talented player. http://www.afc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/News/clubNewsDetail/0,,10284~1344638,00.html He looks like he gets his eyebrows done, and he'll no doubt be growing that hair out so he can get frosted tips like his new ladyboy teammates. A two year deal seems to be just asking for him to leave on a freebie though. Typical.

Not criticising Calderwood, I'm criticising the club. Calderwood doesn't write the cheques or refuse to meet transfer demands. That would be our board. And regardless of Calderwood's success, the CLUB has displayed the same ineptitude over transfers for the last decade. You need to read for content before you start with the rolling eyes, Sparky.