Right, thoughts?

My money's on the statue of Fergie.

3 minutes ago, Panda said:

Which he got criticised for, explained it was normal in Germany, but took heed and took a step back.

This is a literal example of being damned if you do and damned if you don't.

By all accounts his remit over summer was to sell players, which he did and apparently got good money for the departures.

He didn't cover himself in glory with the manager search, but mainly because he held on for Horneland. If Horneland had taken the job, who knows how the season would have panned out and how Lutz would be looked on.

Other than that, not really sure what the criticism of Lutz is. He's not taking part in training sessions and isn't picking the team, so his influence there is minimal. Signings - he's helped with some names he knows (namely Geiger - a bit of a coup at the time - and the two German goalkeepers). But Darren Mowbray has been head of recruitment since March, so are we blaming Lutz for the majority of the summer signings?

Lutz has been instrumental in getting some of the younger players signed up on new contracts.

Meanwhile John McGlynn just signs young players and puts them in the starting XI and has zero budget and none of this apparatus and his team looks a lot more like an Aberdeen team than ours does. Falkirk don't need to 'convince' b/c they're not playing has beens and jobbers ahead of youth. Ethan Ross used to be our player is Mahou better than him? Olusanya? Wasn't Cormack Park supposed to be about creating a first team youth pipeline and instead of that we sign Obi Wan, Chris Cadden and Brad Lyons. Lutz probably does have to have the gift of the gab to convince youth players to extend their contracts when journeymen jobbers are clogging up their route to the first team, but he's also signing on the dotted line for those jobbers as well.

9 minutes ago, PatrickM said:

Yeah, OK. To me this just sounds like corporate doublespeak and waffle. He's ultimately responsible, he should be side by side with the manager, not using the manager as a human shield when all the salient questions land in his lap. What did Robinson actually have to say: 'it wasn't good enough' and then when it came to the accountability piece 'I'll keep fighting (i.e. my contract says if I resign I don't get severance pay)' and 'we lacked confidence'. Why not just roll out an AI chatbot to do that?

This corporate structure I can see it works when what's clearly out of the manager's hands lands in the lap of the DoF, I can't see it working when the manager is trundled out as a pinata, he's on a hiding to nothing anyway so he just parrots the talking points and eats shit to collect his £250k cheque from the Chairman, and the DoF is on a private WhatsApp group asking what the going market hourly rate is to shovel shit.

To me the way you're framing this is that fans get this sort of performative circus of accountability when the 'real' accountability happens in emails and on WhatsApp between people we will never meet and to whom our club is just an interesting statistic for sports betting.

I don't think I've ever seen a director of football appear after the match when the manager is still in position. I'm sure you'll be able to give me an example? Robinson owns this debacle almost entirely. Those that put him in charge second. Lutz's inability to make a shite situation (employing Robinson) better isn't great, but it's not an egregious error.

3 minutes ago, PatrickM said:

Meanwhile John McGlynn just signs young players and puts them in the starting XI and has zero budget and none of this apparatus and his team looks a lot more like an Aberdeen team than ours does. Falkirk don't need to 'convince' b/c they're not playing has beens and jobbers ahead of youth. Ethan Ross used to be our player is Mahou better than him? Olusanya? Wasn't Cormack Park supposed to be about creating a first team youth pipeline and instead of that we sign Obi Wan, Chris Cadden and Brad Lyons. Lutz probably does have to have the gift of the gab to convince youth players to extend their contracts when journeymen jobbers are clogging up their route to the first team, but he's also signing on the dotted line for those jobbers as well.

John McGlynn is a very good coach. Robinson isn't.

13 minutes ago, Panda said:

Which he got criticised for, explained it was normal in Germany, but took heed and took a step back.

This is a literal example of being damned if you do and damned if you don't.

By all accounts his remit over summer was to sell players, which he did and apparently got good money for the departures.

He didn't cover himself in glory with the manager search, but mainly because he held on for Horneland. If Horneland had taken the job, who knows how the season would have panned out and how Lutz would be looked on.

Other than that, not really sure what the criticism of Lutz is. He's not taking part in training sessions and isn't picking the team, so his influence there is minimal. Signings - he's helped with some names he knows (namely Geiger - a bit of a coup at the time - and the two German goalkeepers). But Darren Mowbray has been head of recruitment since March, so are we blaming Lutz for the majority of the summer signings?

Lutz has been instrumental in getting some of the younger players signed up on new contracts.

My understanding is that he is sporting director and since he has been appointed he has overseen nothing short of an omnishambles in both the men’s and women’s teams.

15 minutes ago, Kowalski said:

My understanding is that he is sporting director and since he has been appointed he has overseen nothing short of an omnishambles in both the men’s and women’s teams.

The shambles was firmly in place before he started, in both teams. I doubt he has significant input into the women's team, and not do I think anyone would care if he did. I don't think you or I have any real idea where his remit starts and ends to pass judgement. I'm actually not sticking up for Lutz because I think he's good, I'm sticking up for him because it seems like people have just decided that they need to blame someone and he's the useful idiot. I'm not seeing anything at the club just now that can be firmly pinned on Lutz's door that he either didn't inherit (there was no recruitment director when he joined) or have foisted upon him (Robinson).

I think he's at fault for Aremu, Briedl, Muller and Klein, who appear to be signings that are suspiciously close to his previous contacts, but none of those are that terrible in the scheme of things.

31 minutes ago, RicoS321 said:

I don't think I've ever seen a director of football appear after the match when the manager is still in position. I'm sure you'll be able to give me an example? Robinson owns this debacle almost entirely. Those that put him in charge second. Lutz's inability to make a shite situation (employing Robinson) better isn't great, but it's not an egregious error.

Just goes to show how middle aged and out of touch with the modern corporate clown circus that is football these days I guess.

5 minutes ago, PatrickM said:

Just goes to show how middle aged and out of touch with the modern corporate clown circus that is football these days I guess.

I'm only going on what Cormack made fairly clear when he first joined. As far as I could tell, the idea was to have a few footballing "support" departments, and that the manager was not in charge of them. Personally, I've never understood the need for a recruitment director, but that's neither here nor there. I think it muddies the water slightly. The manager is in charge of all football on-the-park, and coaching issues, and is responsible for that in full. The sporting director ensures that we have a manager that sticks to a particular strategy and that players that are signed align with that strategy. He holds the manager to account and provides "devil's advocate" in the background, questioning why he's making certain decisions and always going back to the strategy and seeing how things are progressing in alignment with that. He talks to players and is generally close to the footballing side without being overbearing. He's there because of his football knowledge, which doesn't exist on the board, and for his availability (he's full time). He transcends the manager, so that we don't have the next guy coming in and ripping everything up to start from square one again.

Of course, it took Cormack six years to actually get a sporting director in, and then when he did, he overrode his decision on the manager (not without good reason, in fairness).

The reason for the sporting director is fairly straightforward and makes complete sense. McInnes left, and so did sport science and recruitment, where his favourite picks were in charge. I'm fairly certain similar will happen at Falkirk when McGlynn leaves. The problem that we have is that we either keep panicking and handing everything back to the manager to control (Thelin), or just not having the staff in place when a manager arrives on their reduced remit (every manager since Cormack arrived).

I haven't got a clue if Lutz is good at his job or not, but I would find it very strange if he was sacked on the basis of his entire job description being overridden by a panicked manager appointment by those above him.

Seems like the problem is a fundamental lack of accountability upstairs and the buck not stopping with anyone and when it does it's just an organisational shuffle. Sounds a lot like Wood Group or Petrofac.

Edited Sunday at 14:384 days by PatrickM

36 minutes ago, PatrickM said:

Seems like the problem is a fundamental lack of accountability upstairs and the buck not stopping with anyone and when it does it's just an organisational shuffle. Sounds a lot like Wood Group or Petrofac.

Yes, I think so. Whilst its not transparent, there's probably enough evidence since Cormack arrived that that is the case. If I'm not mistaken, Robinson aside, the next appointment will be the first where we've had recruitment, sporting director and CEO in place before making the appointment. A structure that Cormack suggested when he first arrived. If we think Lutz is shite, and that's something I'd hope those in the club know, then he needs to go ASAP, and a new appointment made before the next manager arrives. That could add a lot of time to the process.

McGlynn 3-0 up at the pink bus shelter well before half time.

We can’t even hope to get a draw there - ever.

Just saying…

Are Nena still on the go?

They managed to get a tune out of a large bunch of red balloons

14 minutes ago, The.Moog said:

McGlynn 3-0 up at the pink bus shelter well before half time.

We can’t even hope to get a draw there - ever.

Just saying…

4-0 now.

When have or would we ever get near doing anything like that.

And they replaced pretty much their entire first team in the summer as well…

1 minute ago, The.Moog said:

4-0 now.

When have or would we ever get near doing anything like that.

And they replaced pretty much their entire first team in the summer as well…

Aberdeen, Hearts and Celtic all sacking their managers on Monday and having a three-way scrap for McGlynn.

4 minutes ago, Panda said:

Aberdeen, Hearts and Celtic all sacking their managers on Monday and having a three-way scrap for McGlynn.

We’ll come bottom of that league as well…

2 hours ago, RicoS321 said:

Yes, I think so. Whilst its not transparent, there's probably enough evidence since Cormack arrived that that is the case. If I'm not mistaken, Robinson aside, the next appointment will be the first where we've had recruitment, sporting director and CEO in place before making the appointment. A structure that Cormack suggested when he first arrived. If we think Lutz is shite, and that's something I'd hope those in the club know, then he needs to go ASAP, and a new appointment made before the next manager arrives. That could add a lot of time to the process.

• prawcess

8 hours ago, Kowalski said:

My understanding is that he is sporting director and since he has been appointed he has overseen nothing short of an omnishambles in both the men’s and women’s teams.

Who'd have thought that hiring someone guilty of match-fixing, stealing a penguin and losing his last job due to poor job performance, the biggest complaint being his choice of manager due to poor vetting, might be a poor choice and a bit of a chancer?

1 hour ago, Toe_poke said:

Who'd have thought that hiring someone guilty of match-fixing,

We was later cleared of all charges.

I’m constantly amazed by how much everyone seems to know about how good/bad/indifferent the various back room staff are. Is there a hidden camera in the Pittodrie boardroom?

Since Main Stand Moan left AbMad I don’t reckon we’ve had anyone with genuine inside knowledge. I could be wrong of course.

Either way, I’ve no idea whether Lutz is shite or not. But Robinson clearly is. Time to go.

1 hour ago, Panda said:

We was later cleared of all charges.

*He

Incriminating myself due to having fat thumbs 👀

2 hours ago, Panda said:

We was later cleared of all charges.

Really? I was under the impression he was found guilty, received jail time and was suspended by FIFA as a result of the conviction. Admittedly for corruption related to match-fixing, not for actually fixing any matches, but I don't see how he could be cleared of all that? Even if he got a dodgy pardon, it wouldn't change the fact that he was convicted of doing it.

4 hours ago, Toe_poke said:

Really? I was under the impression he was found guilty, received jail time and was suspended by FIFA as a result of the conviction. Admittedly for corruption related to match-fixing, not for actually fixing any matches, but I don't see how he could be cleared of all that? Even if he got a dodgy pardon, it wouldn't change the fact that he was convicted of doing it.

Lutz (the Penguin thief) Pfannenstiel was found guilty of match fixing and sentenced through a court hearing in Singapore in January 2001
He was sentenced to five months in prison and served 101 days in Queenstown Prison in Singapore before being released early for good behavior.

Posted this on the Robinson thread but it's probably more appropriate in here.

17 hours ago, Panda said:

Aberdeen, Hearts and Celtic all sacking their managers on Monday and having a three-way scrap for McGlynn.

Appoint St Mirren managers, get St Mirren (twice). Appointing the Falkirk manager would get us Falkirk, which would be better than just now but not nearly good enough for where we want to be. I'm fed up with the notion that someone doing well at a smaller club will do well here, despite them having little to no experience of the demands of a club like ours.

It's now or never.

All this aggravation ain't satisfactioning me.

32 minutes ago, wee toon red said:

Posted this on the Robinson thread but it's probably more appropriate in here.

Appoint St Mirren managers, get St Mirren (twice). Appointing the Falkirk manager would get us Falkirk, which would be better than just now but not nearly good enough for where we want to be. I'm fed up with the notion that someone doing well at a smaller club will do well here, despite them having little to no experience of the demands of a club like ours.

Except that's exactly how all managers progress in the game, and exactly what we'd be doing if we employed a manager from abroad.

McGlynn has been Hearts manager. He's also a good coach. The biggest impediment to him being successful would be time. It takes a while to implement his particular style, and there'd be plenty of mistakes along the way. I don't think McGlynn would get the patience that a foreign manager would get because of the attitude that he doesn't understand the demands or whatever. I think Robinson understands the demands of Aberdeen, he just isn't that good a coach.

To be honest, I think the whole "managers can't manage a big club" a bit of a myth. Robinson was at spurs, Bournemouth, Luton and an international player. The notion that he wouldn't have got some understanding of "big clubs" whilst there is a little unbelievable.

Goodwin and Robinson both stand out, to me, for their inflexibility and lack of tactical awareness. Their coaching appeared to rely on pragmatism, being difficult to beat and old school "get intae them" mentality, which can only take you so far. I suspect Goodwin has far more humility than Robinson and I wouldn't be surprised if he has developed as a manager between us and utd. McGlynn spent a lot of time after leaving hearts relearning the game, and spent a good bit of time with the Tims as scout (where I'm sure the "big club" thing might have raised its head). His approach to the game is significantly different, comfortable changing systems and working on actual passages of play that exploit weaknesses.

Regardless, I don't believe he'll be in the frame for our job, and I don't believe he'd want it.

I know he’s got the nightmare playing CV but he grew up an Aberdeen fan, didn’t he?

I kind of like the fact he’s a total oddball. Might be a good fit for us