Arena Community Stadium

 

A community stadium development (Arena) for AberdeenCity could be built near Loirston Loch, Cove.

 

Reports published today reveal partners investigating the possibility of creating a stadium and associated facilities in Aberdeen have made significant progress.

 

The Arena Project Team formed jointly by Aberdeen City Council and Aberdeen Football Club will present an Outline Business Case for a stadium and ask Councillors to promote Loirston as the preferred site for development.

 

Members will also be asked to give the green light for further development work on the Arena project and back in principle a joint venture as a means of delivery.

 

If built, the Arena would become home to Aberdeen Football Club, a proposed venture partner as well as lead tenant. Officers recommend a 22,000-seat stadium, potentially rising to 30,000 seats, depending on the availability of financial support from the Scottish Government.

 

Officers say sports and leisure developments, such as a community stadium, can play a major role in the successful future of both the city and region.

 

In her report to next week's Council meeting, Head of Planning and Infrastructure, Margaret Bochel, writes: "Development of the Arena Community Stadium will ensure that Aberdeen is acknowledged as a competitive, dynamic and vibrant place to live and work.

 

"The stadium could provide the opportunity to deliver objectives in the Regeneration Strategy, such as developing priority social, economic and environmental projects.

 

"Such a facility would be a major addition to the infrastructure of the city, helping increase participation in sport and encouraging a healthy lifestyle across all sectors of the community."

 

The report will go before Council on December 19.

 

Aberdeen FC's social, economic and cultural role

 

The benefits Aberdeen enjoys as a result of being home to a top division professional football club cannot be underestimated.

 

An economic impact analysis completed in 2006 determined that Aberdeen FC contributes at least £6 million per year to the local economy. The club also supports a total of 350 full time equivalent jobs.

 

Meanwhile, the Dons' community programme is recognised as the best in Scotland - having won the Community Club of the year award every year it has been judged.

 

Shell, Aberdeen City, Aberdeenshire and Moray Councils, The Scottish Football Association, Grampian Fire and Rescue Service, npower, Macdonalds and the Food Standards Agency all support the programme, demonstrating an existing successful partnership between the club, business and the public sector.

 

Pittodrie Stadium

 

Redevelopment of Pittodrie Stadium to meet future needs is not viable.

 

The pitch width and run off areas currently do not meet UEFA standards and the pitch fails to comply with International Rugby Board specifications, meaning it cannot host regular full internationals.

 

As the ground is landlocked, with the exception of the Richard Donald Stand, the best way these issues could be accommodated at the present stadium is to redevelop the Main and South stands to a smaller footprint. These stands, along with the Merkland Road end, are all in relatively poor condition and will require to be completely redeveloped over the next 5?8 years.

 

Taking all of the above into account, there would be a substantial reduction in the stadium's capacity and a major impact on corporate facilities and accommodation, reducing the club's capacity to generate revenue.

 

As the city has no alternative stadium available to Aberdeen Football Club, redevelopment would either take a number of years or require the club to play matches at a remote location - most likely Dundee or Inverness.

 

No European matches could be played within the City during this period of redevelopment and would have to be played in Central Scotland.

 

Eventually, Pittodrie would be left with a capacity of around 15,000, achieved at a cost of around £15million to the club.

 

This would preclude Aberdeen and the region from any involvement in hosting major European and international matches and the city would rule itself out of participating in the hosting of competitions such as the Rugby World Cup or the European Football Championship.

 

A redeveloped Pittodrie would also be unable to accommodate community facilities that would be a significant part of any new stadium.

 

Community Stadium model

 

A community stadium is a partnership-funded initiative that integrates sports and community facilities into a single high quality venue.

 

It should be the home to as many sports clubs and organisations as possible and provide a sport focus for the region whilst maximising the use of accommodation under stands.

 

In Aberdeen, it is suggested that any community stadium could be combined with a football academy for the North East of Scotland and complement the Regional Community Sports facility currently under development at Linksfield.

 

The case for a community stadium in Aberdeen

 

Reports due before members note that the effects of new stadia - and, in particular, community stadia - in British cities have been universally positive, providing major economic and social regeneration opportunities.

 

As with many of these projects, the Arena in Aberdeen is proposed to be much more than a sporting facility. If built, it would raise the city's profile in the eyes of potential investors; link to regeneration strategies in terms of employment, health and fitness, and enhance commercial activity.

 

The Arena also has the potential to deliver high quality architecture, adding to the cultural richness of AberdeenCity and Shire.

 

Officers say design should be of the highest quality - providing a lasting legacy for the citizens of Aberdeen and a development the city can take pride in.

 

In short, the aspiration is to create a facility that is much more than simply a football stadium and can be developed as an educational, training, social, recreational, employment and community hub in use seven days a week for the benefit of the region.

 

The venue would play a major part in further establishing the City and Shire on the national and international map.

 

The results of a City Voice questionnaire revealed overwhelming public support for a community stadium in Aberdeen. Nearly three quarters of those asked were in favour of the project.

 

Delivery

 

The current proposal has been developed in partnership with Aberdeen Football Club, which has provided 50% of all funding. It is envisaged that a joint venture between the club and Council would deliver the Arena, via a stadium management company.

 

The Arena would be home to the Dons, who would act as lead tenant. The development would also provide the opportunity for approximately 150,000 sq ft (14,000 sq m) of floor space for rent, which could include office, retail, hotel, sports, leisure and community facilities.

 

The capitalised rental from these uses would contribute to the overall cost of construction.

 

Capacity

 

The capacity of any new stadium should be sufficient to meet market demand and also allow for future growth.It is also essential that any new stadium be capable of expansion or conversion to host international events.

 

With this in mind, the outline business case has been developed on the principle of a capacity of 22,000 - in line with the present capacity at Pittodrie.

 

However, it is also recommended that the Scottish Government be approached to determine the likelihood of Scotland hosting international competition in the future.

 

If, for example, Scotland were to launch a bid to host the 2016 European Championships, it is likely that a minimum capacity of 30,000 would be required to allow Aberdeen to participate.

 

As neither the City Council or Aberdeen FC could justify the cost associated with providing 8,000 additional seats; it is suggested partners approach the Scottish Government to determine whether there is a real ambition to host such events and discuss the likelihood of contributions to fund the additional infrastructure.

 

Costs

 

The Outline Business case suggests the project could cost in the region of £53 million at today's prices - with suggested Aberdeen City Council and Aberdeen Football Club contributions at £8 million each.

 

The remaining funding could be realised through stadium revenues, development and planning gain.

 

It must be stressed, however, that these figures are indicative only. Further detailed feasibility is required to ascertain the total level of investment required to deliver the Arena, including assessment of other users and potential partners.

 

Site

 

The Arena Project Team originally looked at four potential locations - at King's Links, Bridge of Don, CalderPark and Loirston.

 

The Outline Business Case eliminates the Bridge of Don site due to existing commitment, site capacity and access issues.The CalderPark site is also eliminated due to existing power lines and pylons running along the south side of the site.

 

The sites at King's Links and Loirston remain as options, with officers recommending Loirston following a detailed comparison of planning issues, site assessment, access and deliverability.

 

Commenting on the above, AFC's Managing Director Duncan Fraser said, "There has been a huge amount of work undertaken behind the scenes by the partners in the Arena initiative in recent times, particularly in the last six months and it's a true example of a partnership working towards the greater good of the City & Shire.

 

"Now that a preferred site has been identified and a vehicle to deliver the project outlined and funding options, the hard work now begins.

 

"We look forward to working closely with the Council and other key stakeholders over the coming period, during which time there will undoubtedly be difficult decisions to make and massive challenges to be met. However the end goal here must surely be to overcome any difficulties we face and deliver a community stadium that will showcase the area as the most forward thinking in the country."

Will the Dons make a contribution to the cost?

 

The club and council will each contribute a minimum of £8m each.

 

The remainder will be raised from supporting developments, such as a hotel and conference facilities, plus branding of the actual name of the stadium.

 

The Dons and council will also contribute £300,000 each to carry out a detailed feasibility study if they get the all clear on December 19.

 

Fair do's - must have got MY info fae Charlie Allan

 

I'm beginning to understand what it feels like to be a trump objector - us kings links proponents have been marginalised to the extent that our "mobile sand dune landscape" is a pint of tennents lager.

 

seriously though, in the bar last night I didn't speak to 1 person supportive of the idea of cove.

Rest assured though I will go back there tonight and probably tomoro to canvass opinion to make sure, and if it means going on Sunday to make double sure of opinion I will - Ach, ye got me - I'm just interested in pints 

 

Yes but Jag, which bar were you in?  You can't conduct a straw poll of those from the Linksfield area, or indeed those who will find themselves considerably further from Cove than they are from the links, and expect a result that isn't biased towards the links.

 

Wherever the new stadium goes, some will be further away and some will be nearer, some will have more difficuties with the likes of problems caused by the AECC event lasdt night, and some will have less. That argument doesn't actually wash.

 

You have to look at overall, and overall there will be more room for better facilities, and better access at Cove than at the Links. You're biggest moan has been about pubs, without doubt there will be new pubs surrounding the venue, businessmen aren't stupid, they know when they can make a few quid, and when the council talk of "amneities" don't you think that pubs will be one of them?

 

Despite your "fuck Bolton" attitude, if you took any time to consider anything past the end of your nose, then you'd see the same arguments still going on there 10 years after it opened as we're seeing here, so it's highly relevant. The guys who used to walk to Burnden generally hate the Reebok. Why? Because now they can't walk it anymore and spill out of their local at 2.55 to get into the ground. But guess what, there are two brand new pubs built right beside the ground, as well as those that were already in the area, their only complaint realy is that they have been inconvenienced. Of course just as many, maybe more are now better off, especially those from further afield who drive, who can get right up to the ground to park.

Yes but Jag, which bar were you in?  You can't conduct a straw poll of those from the Linksfield area, or indeed those who will find themselves considerably further from Cove than they are from the links, and expect a result that isn't biased towards the links.

 

Wherever the new stadium goes, some will be further away and some will be nearer, some will have more difficuties with the likes of problems caused by the AECC event lasdt night, and some will have less. That argument doesn't actually wash.

 

You have to look at overall, and overall there will be more room for better facilities, and better access at Cove than at the Links. You're biggest moan has been about pubs, without doubt there will be new pubs surrounding the venue, businessmen aren't stupid, they know when they can make a few quid, and when the council talk of "amneities" don't you think that pubs will be one of them?

 

Despite your "fuck Bolton" attitude, if you took any time to consider anything past the end of your nose, then you'd see the same arguments still going on there 10 years after it opened as we're seeing here, so it's highly relevant. The guys who used to walk to Burnden generally hate the Reebok. Why? Because now they can't walk it anymore and spill out of their local at 2.55 to get into the ground. But guess what, there are two brand new pubs built right beside the ground, as well as those that were already in the area, their only complaint realy is that they have been inconvenienced. Of course just as many, maybe more are now better off, especially those from further afield who drive, who can get right up to the ground to park.

 

 

Aye, piss right aff wi yer "common sense" malarky! I'm wi' Jager on this one. One of the highlights of Pittodrie is spillin oot of the Pitt Bar at 2.57 and still makin it intime for the kickoff. And then leavin the match and arrivin back tae the pitt just intime tae see the highlights of Eugene Dadi leading his flock of sheep along the pittodrie pitch after humpin Ra Shellick!

 

I'm sure there will be new bars at the Cove site. But will they accomodate all the reprobates that the Pitt, Bobbin and Broadhill bars accept with open arms? Doubt it! The reprobates will get banned for fear of causing a bit of damage to the shiny new barstools and winkin at the shiny new barmaids.

fa's got that signature about moaning cunt faced aberdonians........never been more required than now.

 

 

You sure you moaning shite's dinna work for the cooncil planning department.  Remember people, change is not good.

Aye, not everybody has to agree with everybody else min! That's fit a discussion forum is for. I'm all for progress and all that. And I'm all for us relocating if need be. But Cove?? Better be a new train station in Cove, I tell ya. Can ye imagine Grumpian Transport shiftin several thousand fans fae Bridge Street tae Cove? Nah, didnae think so. The football club NEEDS to be within walkable distance of the city's main transport hubs, ie the bus and train stations. Pittodrie is kinda on the very edge of "reasonable walking distance" fae the bus and train stations. Cove is NOT! I refuse to believe that there is no other option at the beach. There's new developments happening all the time at the beach! Surely there's room somewhere for the city's MAIN football club ... a stadium that a tenth of the city's population visit every fortnight!! Surely!!!

 

Even Dyce would be better served than Cove. At least Dyce has a rail link! And there's plenty of space in Dyce to build a stadium!

My biggest concern isn't pubs - fuck sake.

A primary concern is to do with the selloff of ALL concrete assets - and being left with nothing except contracts - but this will remove the debt burden.

Other concerns, what if the council want to have a gig on at the new stadium because they'll make more money from that - Robbie Williams at Hampden anyone?

If you think traffic is bad now - just wait until all the new hooses are built  at porty.

Yes I'll be inconvenienced if it moves to cove - but I'll be inconvenienced more if our club goes down the pan because we can't get an overdraft because we own NOTHING to back it up.  Aye, sure - run it as a profit making company - businesses can still hit problems, especially football.

 

I should probably also mention that in the past year I have had offers in on three houses in cove but have been unsuccessfull and am still actively looking for a house in cove... but then you don't know me and just assume all i think aboot is drinkin up the pitt bar

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but aren't we putting up £8m towards the cost? Therefore we will own a substantial part, plus I presume we will be part financing another portion through new debt?

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but aren't we putting up £8m towards the cost? Therefore we will own a substantial part, plus I presume we will be part financing another portion through new debt?

 

No we are not, that would be unacceptable to me.

Aye, not everybody has to agree with everybody else min! That's fit a discussion forum is for. I'm all for progress and all that. And I'm all for us relocating if need be. But Cove?? Better be a new train station in Cove, I tell ya. Can ye imagine Grumpian Transport shiftin several thousand fans fae Bridge Street tae Cove? Nah, didnae think so. The football club NEEDS to be within walkable distance of the city's main transport hubs, ie the bus and train stations. Pittodrie is kinda on the very edge of "reasonable walking distance" fae the bus and train stations. Cove is NOT! I refuse to believe that there is no other option at the beach. There's new developments happening all the time at the beach! Surely there's room somewhere for the city's MAIN football club ... a stadium that a tenth of the city's population visit every fortnight!! Surely!!!

 

Even Dyce would be better served than Cove. At least Dyce has a rail link! And there's plenty of space in Dyce to build a stadium!

Dyce would be better for sure, although would make it tough for the away coaches. BTW, it's less than 1/20th of the city's population, and I would guess that at least 50% of the crowd are non-city based anyway, many of whom come from the north.

We're putting up £8m. But we're hoping to net £20m from the sale of Pittodrie. Excuse me, but last time I checked, Pittodrie was valued at around £7m. Where the fuck is this huge valuation coming from? Is that how much Stewart Milne Group is willing to pay the club for the land that Pittodrie is on just now? (no, I'm not accusing Milne of moving the club so he can build houses. I've actually never believed that nugget of theory for a minute. If he wanted Pittodrie's ground, he would've moved us by now)

... and I would guess that at least 50% of the crowd are non-city based anyway, many of whom come from the north

 

Yet another reason we shouldn't relocate to a suburb on the southern side of the city!!!

when's the alleged WPR going to be finished?

when's the stadium alleged to be finished?

 

so this would remove all traffic from the north from entering the city, alleviate congestion in an urban area every other saturday, allow for more effective policing as there are fewer little lanes, allow for better training facilities so hopefully the club can progress in producing talent and become a better selling club and hence operate in a profit, clear all current debt (and it's not just the land - how many people would be willing to pay ten quid for a square foot of 'toddrie turf? or a brick?), blah blah.

 

Stay where we are, I don't want to use any form of transport other than walking unless a monorail is built like in the Simpsons.  Anyone got Lyle Langley's phone number??

I cant see easy access for away supporters (or home supporters for that matter) being very high on the councils list of priorities.  The site that's chosen will be the one that makes best financial sense, nothing more, nothing less.

The site that's chosen will be the one that makes best financial sense, nothing more, nothing less.

 

And therein lies your answer. The financial sense from a football point of view requires paying punters to be able to reach said stadium. If they cannae reach it, the money ain't gonna magically float fae their pockets into the coffers of said stadium ... or Arena as they are calling it.

Yet another reason we shouldn't relocate to a suburb on the southern side of the city!!!

 

Aye but the WPR should be finished by the time the stadium is ready.  Thats bound to be one of the main reasons they are looking at Cove.

Aye but the WPR should be finished by the time the stadium is ready.  Thats bound to be one of the main reasons they are looking at Cove.

I would think almost certainly. Then even those from the North wil get there quicker than they get to Todders.

Dyce would be better for sure, although would make it tough for the away coaches. BTW, it's less than 1/20th of the city's population, and I would guess that at least 50% of the crowd are non-city based anyway, many of whom come from the north.

 

50% of the crowd non city folk ?

 

I cannot believe someone has mentioned Dyce as a venue for any new stadium. Travelling out that road is a nightmare at the best of times, events at any stadium out there would make it even more of a nightmare.

 

Since the topic of a new stadium came up I have always mentioned Cove as a prime site. No more parking nightmares, space for development and if they can get their fingers out and get a station in Cove then it could be fantastic.

50% of the crowd non city folk ?

 

 

 

I would say at least 50% are non city folk. Probably more.

 

Dyce would suit me as that would cut out the traffic coming from the North.

Dyce is ok for me, it is the final destination for the Edinburgh train 

I really don't think we will lose 1000s of folk by moving to Cove.  The current fan base consists of pretty hard core fans most weeks as everyone else has was scared off by Miller, Aitken, Miller, Ebbe and Pele.  These fans in the main will still go to Cove.  There may be a handful of stubborn old fools who refuse to go, but this handful will be replaced by another handful of folk attracted by decent facilities.

 

The only thing that will change the numbers coming through the gate is the product on the park.

Rebuilding Pittodrie is not viable. Clearly afc and the council think Cove has more  potential for developing as many revenue streams as possible, and if that is the case then I'll go with that.

 

This proposal will be passed next week.  Then we can see what the detailed study comes up with

Clearly afc and the council think Cove has more  potential for developing as many revenue streams as possible, and if that is the case then I'll go with that.

 

That's just a red herring.

 

Where are AFC going to get more cash to build more 'things' for the other revenue streams after ploughing all their money into the stadium and clearing the debt?

That's just a red herring.

 

Where are AFC going to get more cash to build more 'things' for the other revenue streams after ploughing all their money into the stadium and clearing the debt?

presumably facilities will be incorporated into the development that afc can utilise to increase revenue

50% of the crowd non city folk ?

As EPK says, probably more. I'd be surprised if it was substantially less.

As EPK says, probably more. I'd be surprised if it was substantially less.

 

I remember the thread on here (before the crash) and only 30-40% of users stayed in the City

presumably facilities will be incorporated into the development that afc can utilise to increase revenue

 

First off don't presume anything.  Unless it's written in stone that AFC will have facilities there to increase revenue then I'd say we'll get the use of it on match days and whenever we're training.  Any other time it'll be the Council's stadium and they'll be looking to coin it in.

 

Anyway, what would these other revenue streams be?  People keep posting things like "gyms, hotels, shops, etc" but who exactly is going to run a hotel there?

 

The Council? 

 

AFC? 

 

If anything they may have office space or units within the stadium to rent out or perhaps conference rooms you could hire for meetings or courses but do you honestly think AFC would see any of that money?

First off don't presume anything.  Unless it's written in stone that AFC will have facilities there to increase revenue then I'd say we'll get the use of it on match days and whenever we're training.  Any other time it'll be the Council's stadium and they'll be looking to coin it in.

 

Anyway, what would these other revenue streams be?  People keep posting things like "gyms, hotels, shops, etc" but who exactly is going to run a hotel there?

 

The Council? 

 

AFC? 

 

If anything they may have office space or units within the stadium to rent out or perhaps conference rooms you could hire for meetings or courses but do you honestly think AFC would see any of that money?

1. The hotel. It will be run by a hotel chain, the Reebok hotel is run by De Vere's, they will pay rental for the space, and being so close to Altens and the A90 it will have plenty takers for the lease.

 

2. Other revenue will be more or less shared, why would the council get all the "other" revenue when it is a JV with equal capital input?

 

You're right we shouldn't assume, but any assumptions should be logical, you're simply trying to spin this into as negative as possible for AFC, I don't know why you would do that?

 

Also consider that AFC is run by experienced businessmen, whereas the cooncil is not, maybe, just maybe, the Dons will get the better end of any imbalance when they come down to splitting who gets what share of what?