Dunfermline v The Scottish Cup holders

[2stars]

3 hours ago, OrlandoDon said:

 He’s doing more damage than Jimmy, who was bad enough.

We are probably still paying Jimmy - maybe we should get him back - tell him that now he is re-energised to get a couple of wins like he did when he first came here then he can go home again

 

No I am not being serious 

[Mason89]

33 minutes ago, Panda said:

But when did this become a thing, that you can only appoint the right manager in summer?

Dundee United could sack Jim Goodwin on Monday and have a new man in place by the end of the week.

We need to get our fucking act together. We are playing like a team that doesn't have a manager, and have been doing so for over two months now. I was happy for the club to take their time to get the right man, but this is taking the piss. And no, the "unforeseen circumstances" around Horneland situation doesn't excuse it.

Sounds like you don’t trust the prawcess 

[RicoS321]

1 hour ago, The.Moog said:

You say on one hand, that it would be harsh on Leven to be sacked for that, then (correctly) call out a lot of basic fundamental errors he made last night - midfield setup etc.

Apart from the fact the club should have standards by which that type of result is unacceptable and has consequences (we don’t, but we should) it just underlines why he should be removed. He doesn’t know what he’s doing, and when his flawed game plan doesn’t work, he’s got no idea how to adjust and change it (neither did Thelin tbf, but he’s gone).

None of our basic failings as a football team have been improved by him and his coaching either - not one, that’s another reason.

Yes, Doc and the other new boy have an input (we assume) but Leven is in charge just now and the buck stops there.

Something needs to happen, and if its not the new manager being appointed this week, it should be Leven heading out the door…

It's harsh, because it's not his job. It's like asking Sarah from accounts to cover HR for Julie, who's on maternity leave, for a few months and then sacking Sarah because she accidentally paid someone the wrong amount. I don't think any of us know whether Leven is good at his actual role at the club or not. He should at least be given the opportunity to return to that role either now or once a new manager is in place should they wish to retain him. It's is very unfair to expect him to be good at the role of manager when it's not his job, or what he's being paid to do. That the club can't get their shite together for a replacement for Thelin is not Leven's fault, and he shouldn't be punished for it. 

 

1 hour ago, OrlandoDon said:

What’s the constant in the coaching staff since jimmy left, leven

Being a constant doesn't infer blame. The youth team staff have been fairly constant too, but they're not at fault, neither the admin staff. None of us have the slightest clue what Leven's day to day responsibilities were under Thelin or prior. It's possible to be good at being a coach and foil for a manager but be shite at tactics and taking responsibility. Plenty here seem to be suggesting that we sack Leven and promote a guy who fits exactly that description in Docherty. We're basically suggesting replacing one caretaker manager for another caretaker manager with the exact same skillset. 

Leven is a pish manager, but we've made and shat in that bed and we have to live with it until we can do the right thing and get a proper manager. Firing the guy that we've asked to do a favour for a few weeks isn't the answer to anything.

[OrlandoDon]

5 minutes ago, RicoS321 said:

It's harsh, because it's not his job. It's like asking Sarah from accounts to cover HR for Julie, who's on maternity leave, for a few months and then sacking Sarah because she accidentally paid someone the wrong amount. I don't think any of us know whether Leven is good at his actual role at the club or not. He should at least be given the opportunity to return to that role either now or once a new manager is in place should they wish to retain him. It's is very unfair to expect him to be good at the role of manager when it's not his job, or what he's being paid to do. That the club can't get their shite together for a replacement for Thelin is not Leven's fault, and he shouldn't be punished for it. 

 

Being a constant doesn't infer blame. The youth team staff have been fairly constant too, but they're not at fault, neither the admin staff. None of us have the slightest clue what Leven's day to day responsibilities were under Thelin or prior. It's possible to be good at being a coach and foil for a manager but be shite at tactics and taking responsibility. Plenty here seem to be suggesting that we sack Leven and promote a guy who fits exactly that description in Docherty. We're basically suggesting replacing one caretaker manager for another caretaker manager with the exact same skillset. 

Leven is a pish manager, but we've made and shat in that bed and we have to live with it until we can do the right thing and get a proper manager. Firing the guy that we've asked to do a favour for a few weeks isn't the answer to anything.

I think the way you are judging Sarah and Julie is totally unfair. But both may do a better job than leven at present.

You can’t compare doc and leven, doc has been a successful assistant and head coach, knows more than leven from experience alone. Whether he’s an actually a better coach is debatable, but he’s been trusted in leadership roles which suggests a certain level of knowledge and ability. He’s also been in bottom six battles, more experienced and  tested than leven.

leven has been in charge for close to two months, he is the constant. We haven’t clearly improved or weakened because of the hiring of the other two. I think it’s fair to place blame on him for where we are at present. He hasn’t improved anything, arguably we’re worse as a result of his appointment. It’s an unfortunate situation, are you suggesting he gets demoted for doc but stays at the club? That would be an odd dynamic if he’s still involved in the first team. Or are you suggesting we stick and hope?

[dons8321]

3 hours ago, Bukta Bertie said:

Yes I get your point and agree with it but I was just emphasisjng how bad the pitch was.

Bobbly as f*ck. 

Yet Dunfermline managed to pass the ball to each other, managed to run at pace without losing control (unlike Olasanya), managed to take a first touch without the ball bouncing off for 4/5 yards (Nisbet and Olasanya who tried to take a ball on his chest from a throw-in and couldn't even manage that), managed to regularly move around the whole pitch without looking as though they were pulling a tractor.  

Plus we may have to get used to those type of pitches next season.

[Bukta Bertie]

5 minutes ago, dons8321 said:

Yet Dunfermline managed to pass the ball to each other, managed to run at pace without losing control (unlike Olasanya), managed to take a first touch without the ball bouncing off for 4/5 yards (Nisbet and Olasanya who tried to take a ball on his chest from a throw-in and couldn't even manage that), managed to regularly move around the whole pitch without looking as though they were pulling a tractor.  

Plus we may have to get used to those type of pitches next season.

I already said it was the same for both teams and wasn't an excuse.

As you were. 

[The.Moog]

With a terrible Tim Team getting through there - this cup is wide open.

If I was Falkirk, I’d be licking my lips at this.

Just makes our latest catastrophic cup tie clusterfuck look even worse, what an opportunity blown…

[The.Moog]

1 hour ago, RicoS321 said:

It's harsh, because it's not his job. It's like asking Sarah from accounts to cover HR for Julie, who's on maternity leave, for a few months and then sacking Sarah because she accidentally paid someone the wrong amount. I don't think any of us know whether Leven is good at his actual role at the club or not. He should at least be given the opportunity to return to that role either now or once a new manager is in place should they wish to retain him. It's is very unfair to expect him to be good at the role of manager when it's not his job, or what he's being paid to do. That the club can't get their shite together for a replacement for Thelin is not Leven's fault, and he shouldn't be punished for it. 

 

Being a constant doesn't infer blame. The youth team staff have been fairly constant too, but they're not at fault, neither the admin staff. None of us have the slightest clue what Leven's day to day responsibilities were under Thelin or prior. It's possible to be good at being a coach and foil for a manager but be shite at tactics and taking responsibility. Plenty here seem to be suggesting that we sack Leven and promote a guy who fits exactly that description in Docherty. We're basically suggesting replacing one caretaker manager for another caretaker manager with the exact same skillset. 

Leven is a pish manager, but we've made and shat in that bed and we have to live with it until we can do the right thing and get a proper manager. Firing the guy that we've asked to do a favour for a few weeks isn't the answer to anything.

Ok then, ignoring the fact HR & accounts have absolutely no overlap in skillset at all, forget the “manager” bit, lets look at him as a coach.

We’re dreadfully coached. Every facet of our game is terrible, can’t defend, second best in midfield, no width, create fuck all, don’t score etc etc.

All that was there before he was interim and was just a straight up coach, and are all still there now. Some of it might even be worse.

I liked his interview last night, honest, no sugar coating, told it like it is. I think he cares, certainly more than most of the players like. It was also basically an admission he doesn’t know how to fix it. He needs to go.

There needs to be consequences for that. On the pitch the likes of Milanovic should never be seen again, off the pitch Leven needs to go…

Edited yesterday at 16:52 by The.Moog

[Panda]

1 hour ago, OrlandoDon said:

He hasn’t improved anything, arguably we’re worse as a result of his appointment.

Whilst I don't think Leven should be considered long term, the decline isn't all down to him. Our recruitment across the season has been abysmal, and we are arguably weaker than we were at the start of the January window.

We've brought in a goalkeeper who doesn't look any better than Mitov.

Morrison is poor, McIntyre average.

Geiger so far has been more liability than an improvement on anyone. 

Aremu and Olusanya - we needed players to improve the first team, and instead we've two players to sit on the bench. 

Cameron the only signing I'd give plus marks to at the moment, and he's a loan signing from a rival club.

Going back to summer:-

Gueye been replaced by Yengi/lazetic.

Morris by Milanovic.

Despite the criticism he used to get, Jack Mackenzie would start for us just now. No-one of the level of Jamie McGrath has been brought in. Even Ester Sokler would be ahead of everyone bar Nisbet just now.

Promoting Tony Docherty would solve nothing. He's already at the club so his "experience" is already there. Him picking the team makes little difference because he still has the same group of players, and he's not good enough to get more out of them.

Get a new manager appointed now - whether he official starts in summer or not. Someone needs to be evaluating the squad and working with Lutz & Mowbray to identify what we need in summer, and we need it done early so we're not signing half our squad on transfer deadline day again.

[Bukta Bertie]

38 minutes ago, Panda said:

Whilst I don't think Leven should be considered long term, the decline isn't all down to him. Our recruitment across the season has been abysmal, and we are arguably weaker than we were at the start of the January window.

We've brought in a goalkeeper who doesn't look any better than Mitov.

Morrison is poor, McIntyre average.

Geiger so far has been more liability than an improvement on anyone. 

Aremu and Olusanya - we needed players to improve the first team, and instead we've two players to sit on the bench. 

Cameron the only signing I'd give plus marks to at the moment, and he's a loan signing from a rival club.

Going back to summer:-

Gueye been replaced by Yengi/lazetic.

Morris by Milanovic.

Despite the criticism he used to get, Jack Mackenzie would start for us just now. No-one of the level of Jamie McGrath has been brought in. Even Ester Sokler would be ahead of everyone bar Nisbet just now.

Promoting Tony Docherty would solve nothing. He's already at the club so his "experience" is already there. Him picking the team makes little difference because he still has the same group of players, and he's not good enough to get more out of them.

Get a new manager appointed now - whether he official starts in summer or not. Someone needs to be evaluating the squad and working with Lutz & Mowbray to identify what we need in summer, and we need it done early so we're not signing half our squad on transfer deadline day again.

Rushing to appoint what would almost certainly be a sub-standard manager now just because they're available is idiotic.

Docherty is experienced enough for the time being and he can be assisted by that guy who managed in Norway. Let them mind the shop until we get a man in summer. 

[Mason89]

The football monitoring board will have this all under control 

[OrlandoDon]

11 minutes ago, Panda said:

Whilst I don't think Leven should be considered long term, the decline isn't all down to him. Our recruitment across the season has been abysmal, and we are arguably weaker than we were at the start of the January window.

We've brought in a goalkeeper who doesn't look any better than Mitov.

Morrison is poor, McIntyre average.

Geiger so far has been more liability than an improvement on anyone. 

Aremu and Olusanya - we needed players to improve the first team, and instead we've two players to sit on the bench. 

Cameron the only signing I'd give plus marks to at the moment, and he's a loan signing from a rival club.

Going back to summer:-

Gueye been replaced by Yengi/lazetic.

Morris by Milanovic.

Despite the criticism he used to get, Jack Mackenzie would start for us just now. No-one of the level of Jamie McGrath has been brought in. Even Ester Sokler would be ahead of everyone bar Nisbet just now.

Promoting Tony Docherty would solve nothing. He's already at the club so his "experience" is already there. Him picking the team makes little difference because he still has the same group of players, and he's not good enough to get more out of them.

Get a new manager appointed now - whether he official starts in summer or not. Someone needs to be evaluating the squad and working with Lutz & Mowbray to identify what we need in summer, and we need it done early so we're not signing half our squad on transfer deadline day again.

100% agree it’s not purely leven, I’ve also commented a few times about recruitment. There’s other factors that haven’t helped, including injuries, suspension, even the weather! But are you suggesting we stick with the status quo right now?

once the club has a manager it will be announced, the sooner the better. But yesterday was a big fuck up by leven. We have ultimately no idea if doc would be better, but can he be any worse? He’s more experienced, and has led a team, that should count for something.
While doc is assistant, leven is the decision maker and main man. It makes a difference who is in control, has the final say, the motivation and leadership, the responsibility and respect from the players, so when you say it makes little difference, I think you are wrong. I’ve been both a head and assistant coach before, big difference if you are asst or head.
Man management is one of doc’s strengths, plus his experience, you don’t think he can get more out of this group?
nine big games, you trust leven with them?

[The.Moog]

The problem whatever happens (unless we make a permanent appointment this week) is we have an interim manager managing a bunch of interim players.

Most of them, even those not on loan, clearly don’t give a fuck about AFC. They’re hardly gonna give a fuck what an interim manager they’ll never see again in 2 months time says to them. I doubt they’ll give much of a fuck what a permanent manager says. Most know they are out of here at the end of May.

We need to make a change cause we need to try something or we are in serious danger of going down, but fuck me what a mess we’re in…

[THFN1983]

Do we honestly think that anyone will take the fall for last nights debacle? Are we going to line up for our next fixture with the same coaching team or will the FMB act and demote Leven (they won't sack him) and have Doc or the other geezer in control?

Whether it's harsh or not there has to be something to showcase that certain performances and results wont be tolerated. If the players see non-action from the board etc. then they will know definitively that they can coast until the end of the season.

[Panda]

1 hour ago, OrlandoDon said:

 But are you suggesting we stick with the status quo right now?

No, I've said more than once - including in the post that you're replying to - that we need to get on with appointing a permanent manager.

1 hour ago, OrlandoDon said:

We have ultimately no idea if doc would be better, but can he be any worse? 

Yes, it is entirely possible that he could be worse.

And replacing a caretaker with another caretaker would be laughable.

Are you suggesting we sack Leven, in which case we now need another coach. Or do we swap him & Doc, which likely wouldn't be accepted by either party.

[Bukta Bertie]

1 minute ago, Panda said:

No, I've said more than once - including in the post that you're replying to - that we need to get on with appointing a permanent manager.

Yes, it is entirely possible that he could be worse.

And replacing a caretaker with another caretaker would be laughable.

Are you suggesting we sack Leven, in which case we now need another coach. Or do we swap him & Doc, which likely wouldn't be accepted by either party.

Absolutely we need to sack Leven. He's just presided over one of the biggest humiliations in the clubs history. That can't go unpunished.

He's a useless fat hun prick and he should have been thrown out of the club years ago.

Docherty steps into his shoes and he's got a ready made assistant in the new guy who arrived a few week ago. 

 

[OrlandoDon]

18 minutes ago, Panda said:

No, I've said more than once - including in the post that you're replying to - that we need to get on with appointing a permanent manager.

Yes, it is entirely possible that he could be worse.

And replacing a caretaker with another caretaker would be laughable.

Are you suggesting we sack Leven, in which case we now need another coach. Or do we swap him & Doc, which likely wouldn't be accepted by either party.

We all want a new permanent manager, I don’t think that’s the discussion. Pretty sure that happens in the summer, it’s the increasingly worrying period before that.

how could doc be worse? We’re playing terribly, don’t create chances, don’t score, can’t defend, gift goals, don’t look overly aggressive or competitive, and lose most games. And team selection is debatable. Law of averages, it would be quite hard to be worse.

i think the honorable thing to do is leven walks away, we make that happen. You certainly cannot swap. You have a convo and he steps aside. That leave doc and the new boy coaching/running the first team, do we really need three coaches for 9 games? Your laughable comment has little weight, we’re beyond laughable at the moment anyway, and we have a 9 game season. I don’t care if people laugh if it means winning games, even simply picking up points.

Edited 21 hours ago by OrlandoDon

[Panda]

1 hour ago, OrlandoDon said:

Pretty sure that happens in the summer,

But again, why does it need to happen in the summer? 

Why go to the lengths or rearranging the interim team, again, rather than appointing a new manager?

We were holding interviews in January. We've all but made public our interest in two men. And yet we're discussing if we should change the interim team because we don't think we can appoint a manager for another three months.

1 hour ago, OrlandoDon said:

how could doc be worse?

Because he won just twice in 13 games at Ross County, including a 6-0 defeat in his final game. 

Now, County have their issues (as do we) but there's no evidence there he is capable of doing any better than Leven with the current group of players.

"He's experienced". Aye, so is Mark McGhee.

[Bukta Bertie]

Just now, Panda said:

But again, why does it need to happen in the summer? 

Why go to the lengths or rearranging the interim team, again, rather than appointing a new manager?

We were holding interviews in January. We've all but made public our interest in two men. And yet we're discussing if we should change the interim team because we don't think we can appoint a manager for another three months.

Because he won just twice in 13 games at Ross County, including a 6-0 defeat in his final game. 

Now, County have their issues (as do we) but there's no evidence there he is capable of doing any better than Leven with the current group of players.

"He's experienced". Aye, so is Mark McGhee.

You're just not getting it. 

It's not to do with whether Docherty is better than Leven.

It's about sacking people for being in charge of events that are entirely unacceptable. 

Your unwavering defence of his is bordering on the suspicious.

[dons8321]

5 hours ago, Bukta Bertie said:

I already said it was the same for both teams and wasn't an excuse.

As you were. 

You did say it was the same for both sides, you didn't explain why the team in the division below us could pass and move and run whilst we couldn't on the same "bobbly" pitch do the same. 

 

6 hours ago, OrlandoDon said:

I think the way you are judging Sarah and Julie is totally unfair. But both may do a better job than leven at present.

You can’t compare doc and leven, doc has been a successful assistant and head coach, knows more than leven from experience alone. Whether he’s an actually a better coach is debatable, but he’s been trusted in leadership roles which suggests a certain level of knowledge and ability. He’s also been in bottom six battles, more experienced and  tested than leven.

leven has been in charge for close to two months, he is the constant. We haven’t clearly improved or weakened because of the hiring of the other two. I think it’s fair to place blame on him for where we are at present. He hasn’t improved anything, arguably we’re worse as a result of his appointment. It’s an unfortunate situation, are you suggesting he gets demoted for doc but stays at the club? That would be an odd dynamic if he’s still involved in the first team. Or are you suggesting we stick and hope?

 

[OrlandoDon]

15 minutes ago, Panda said:

But again, why does it need to happen in the summer? 

Why go to the lengths or rearranging the interim team, again, rather than appointing a new manager?

We were holding interviews in January. We've all but made public our interest in two men. And yet we're discussing if we should change the interim team because we don't think we can appoint a manager for another three months.

Because he won just twice in 13 games at Ross County, including a 6-0 defeat in his final game. 

Now, County have their issues (as do we) but there's no evidence there he is capable of doing any better than Leven with the current group of players.

"He's experienced". Aye, so is Mark McGhee.

It doesn’t need to happen in the summer, I just think it will. I’d certainly prefer a legit permanent hire now, I just don’t see it.

just because doc failed in other places does mean he can’t coach and lead. McGhee is a good example too, was awful with us but had success elsewhere, hence he was also considered for the Celtic job. It’s not working for leven and every game counts. I just sense doc is the better leader for us right now, right now is key, and it’s a pretty seamless and quick transition.

[Panda]

3 hours ago, OrlandoDon said:

 

just because doc failed in other places does mean he can’t coach and lead.

But there's no evidence he's capable, so why make such a drastic change and hang our hopes on a guy that has just had a disastrous spell at Ross County?

We'd actually be better bringing Neil fucking Warnock back.

3 hours ago, OrlandoDon said:

McGhee is a good example too, was awful with us but had success elsewhere, hence he was also considered for the Celtic job.

I'm beginning to worry about you. Aberdeen have broken you.

[Blow.Up.Sheep]

was trying to let the emotions calm the fuk down before saying anything about this game, but 2 days later and I still cannot get my head round how timid and weak a performance that was all over the park, our cup defence out lie a damp fkn squib, beyond shambolic.
Total fkn clearout top to fkn bottom and hopefully that start this week, with wankstain Cormack walking away and taking his penguin thief mate with him. (cormack has made some pathetic appointments during his time, but this appointment, is taking the fukin piss) 

I know i was laughed at and slagged all over the place when said that we should have appointed Neil Lennon to replace McInnes. I am not saying we would be league and european champions if we had done that back then, but we would most certianly not be in the dreadful sinking shit show that we are currently in the middle of if we had.

I am nae saying we should appoint Lennon now (that ship has sailed long ago) but fk me Cormack has to man up grow a set of balls and admit that is pretty much responsible single handedly for this fukin circus.
 

Nobody but fkn nobody in red shirt on that pitch on Saturday night should get their fukin wages this month, fukin charlatans the lot of them.

[Blow.Up.Sheep]

On 08/03/2026 at 02:45, Mentorred said:

Absolute dross, players are useless the people running the club are clueless, the coaching team really clueless and clearly like Jimmy don’t know who the best 11 are.  Cup,upsets happen but that was unacceptable tonight, that was a total domination by a championship team who showed mercy in the end by heading for the corner flags instead of going for a fourth 

I don't think anyone anywhere can actually class the result as a cup upset, it was always on the cards and not a surprise at all.

But yes you are you spot, it was pretty fkn sad from a dons standpoint that towards the end Dunfermline actually did show some mercy by heading to the corner flags.

 

Dunfermline if they continued to go for it towards the end could have easily won that tie 4 or 5 zip (easily)

Cormack and fkn mates should sit down and let that sobering thought sink in for a minute 

[Panda]

6 hours ago, Blow.Up.Sheep said:

I don't think anyone anywhere can actually class the result as a cup upset,

I can, I was upset.