Jimmy Thelin

[TheDonbytheDee]

It depends on how involved he is in our recruitment.

If he has any say in identifying who we are bringing in, then questions have to be asked, as we are bringing in players clearly not suitable for our game and in a few cases just not good enough at all.

If he is given these players, with limited input from him and in turn doesn't rate them, then possibly we stick with him.

We can only hope that Lutz can help with sorting out recruitment and get the right players in to fit into Jimmy's preferred style.

You look at what the boy at Motherwell has done in a short time, with nothing like the resources Jimmy has, and seems to work fairly well with what he has available.

Not saying Motherwell are the best thing since sliced bread, but they do look a team with an identity and have been fairly consistent in their set up and approach to games.

He even has Paul McGinn now resembling a passable footballer.

I supposed I could have summed it up by saying, I'm f*cked if I ken.

 

[The.Moog]

Basically, Thelin doesn’t seem to know how to setup a team to get the best out of the players he’s got.

He doesn’t seem to know how to use his players, or play to their strengths (those that have any strengths that is)

There is no style, substance or identity to our team, tactics, formation & approach to games (what are the tactics?)

His substitutions usually make us worse, they are absolutely baffling.

He never makes in game adjustments to reflect the nature of the game or what’s going on. He won’t (or can’t) change his starting formation no matter what.

This is not a knee jerk reaction to another poor performance. None of this is new, its been the case for a year now.

In summary, I’m rapidly coming to the conclusion that he’s just not a very good manager, and just hasn’t got the ability to get us to where we are supposed to be going…

[RicoS321]

I don't think we'll find out how good a manager he is, as I think we'll sack him before we can find out. It's fucking simple stuff, you get the sporting director in, and then you spend the money. Thelin was appointed on the basis of having a recruitment team doing the work, while he managed the team. He's had to do the recruitment part, which he clearly can't do, but most importantly there is no devil's advocate in there questioning his motives and decision making. To not have a box to box midfielder in place (now relying on Aouchiche to do that, and he was okay last night), was criminal. To fill our team with project players and guys with zero SPFL experience also criminal. To re-sign Nisbet to play a role he can't play, and to sell Morris with no replacement. To have zero plan B. All errors in recruitment and squad building. 

I have a very strong suspicion that he is getting the best out of our players. Of course, a new manager bounce might temporarily add something, but it'd revert to the mean. We've signed a bunch of very average players, on top of those that were already average, or ageing. Our squad is gash. We need at least seven moved out in January. 

[Elgindon]

^^Agree with that,think our problems stem as much from expensive player mediocrity,(along with the existing),and a few good players past their best.Happy to give Jimmy the Jan window,but unless Lutz has some awesome targets lined up,got a hunch the unrest will arrive before a sustained performance turnaround. Hope not but...

Edited 10 hours ago by Elgindon

[RicoS321]

Just now, Elgindon said:

^^Agree with that,think our problems stem as much from expensive player mediocrity,(along with the existing),and a few good players past their best.Happy to give Jimmy the Jan window,but unless Lutz has some awesome targets lined up,got a hunch the unrest will arrive before a performance turnaround

I guess it's whether two or three targeted good players can bring the best out of the ones who are technically good footballers, but not quite good enough. Guys like Jensen work hard, and are comfortable on the ball. They'd be fine with a couple of strong midfielders for example. We've overloaded on safe, technical players, basically, but they do have their uses. One or two good signings could comfortably get us through to summer until we can recruit better, and clear out again. I'd like to see us revert to a back four once we get signings in, and play like we did when JT first joined (which is essentially what Motherwell are doing, and I suspect they'll get found out in the next round of fixtures too).

 

[wee toon red]

I don't think there's a formation that we could use that would solve our left side problem. We don't have a full back worthy of the name to play on that side and we're lacking a winger as well. Maybe Shinnie on the left of a four would be alright, be he wouldn't have much ahead of him so we'd still be pretty shite on that side. As @RicoS321 says, that's a squad-building issue. Likewise in the middle of the park, we just don't have the player(s) that we need to win the battle and control the game in there.

If Jimmy is responsible for that then it's a big worry, if he isn't then it's also a concern but perhaps one that has been addressed with Lutz's arrival. He said in his arrival interview that there are one or two positions we need to sort out and I'll be amazed if it isn't left back/left wing back and centre mid. If we're not blaming Jimmy for recruitment then I'm ok with him getting until the end of the season but it'll mean Lutz has a hell of a lot of work to do in January.

[OrlandoDon]

I suppose taking a step back, it’s possibly a recruitment issue more than a manager issue. Going back a few years, we had a number of players who were arguably one of the best in the league in their position.
we had Joe Lewis. Have we upgraded with mitov? 
We had Shay Logan, I’m good with lobban. 
we had McKenna, I think we have two good ones in Milne and kneuster. 
we had McLean, maybe that’s clarkson. But McLean had jack hayes and McGinn, we dont have that. If we had the pieces around clarkson I’d say he’d be as effective as McLean.
We had Christie or Maddison, our luxury item. Both were popular team players. Doesn’t sound like karlsson. 
we had Rooney, nothing special but a good goal scorer. But scored a ton because he had service and got chances. Harsh to judge nisbet or lazetic when the service is so shite. 
throw in a Ferguson young shinnie Rama miovski, even duk. 
Last year we even had morris and gueye, two mediocre players who contributed to the squad. We haven’t even replaced them.

you can have about half a team of average players. But you need that talent to bring the best out of a team. Who in our team would other teams want in their team?

karlsson is a luxury item we cannot afford right now. We need grafters, fighters, and team players to work to improve us. We don’t have the pieces around karlsson to make him a success. His tricks and flicks are fine with the right balance in a team. But we’re still closer to bottom of the league than top, and he’s not what we need right now. Much like clarkson, we don’t get the best out of karlsson because of the limitations around him, and you’re seeing people turn on him as a result.

my fear is we get offers for lobban and Milne in January.

Edited 7 hours ago by OrlandoDon

[OrlandoDon]

I struggle with the fact we have no real style of play. We’re a horrible watch. When Thelin first came here I felt we were a clear counter attack team. We had identity. We’d win the ball deep, hit a forward, and you’d see pace from our midfield supporting and attacking, and we had width. That’s how we played during our positive run. Since teams figured that out and sat more we’ve struggled with no clear style or identity.

I also think the inverted winger shit has done more damage than good. I’ve seen inverted wingers work, and work really well. But it doesn’t for us.  

We’re a 3-4-2-1 team by default. Because we are crap and had to go to a back 5 for the most part, not because it’s what we want to do. Because we were so weak in midfield a got over run.

so, shit recruitment has led to a poor squad and imbalanced team. Is jimmy a bad coach or just a coach struggling with a very limited squad.

[TheDonbytheDee]

22 minutes ago, OrlandoDon said:

throw in a Ferguson young shinnie Rama miovski, even duk. 

 

Who? Can't remember him  

[TheDonbytheDee]

2 minutes ago, OrlandoDon said:

 

Is jimmy a bad coach or just a coach struggling with a very limited squad.

That is a good question.

I wasn't at the game last night, but by all accounts were decent in the first half and then fell away in the second half, going by what I have read here and elsewhere.

It was the same against Hearts and numerous other games this season, that I have been at. One good or decent half, and then we disappear. Substitutions kill any sort of momentum we may have, or usually just makes us look worse.

Has Jimmy pissed off a lot of our players and the whole squad is suffering. Does he lack man management skills.  

I am sure player and squad limitation issues are to blame for some of it, but the manager is rightly under scrutiny from a lot of fans and has to take his share of the blame.

It's not just as though it has been this season, we have been consistently poor for just over a year now.

 

 

[RicoS321]

1 hour ago, wee toon red said:

As @RicoS321 says, that's a squad-building issue. Likewise in the middle of the park, we just don't have the player(s) that we need to win the battle and control the game in there.

If Jimmy is responsible for that then it's a big worry, if he isn't then it's also a concern but perhaps one that has been addressed with Lutz's arrival

JT is responsible for the signings. However, whoever gave him responsibility for the signings is the one at fault! McInnes would get bogged down in transfers too, and insist on pish like Tansey because of a couple of good games against us. It's completely understandable, because when you have so many responsibilities, you either have too much focus on one area, or not enough. A sporting director should be there to ask the guys in recruitment and management the sort of question a child might, because often people will struggle to explain their workings. They can force a manager or scout to pull back from looking at the individual player, and address how they fit the wider whole. That clearly wasn't done in any of the windows since McInnes left (and definitely wasn't whilst he was here), and I think it has cost managers their jobs, and will probably cost JT his. If Thelin fails, it's because we've created the conditions for him to do so, just as we did with Glass, Goodwin and Robson. They all might have failed anyway but they've been setup to increase the chances. Hopefully the penguin fucker is sitting down with Thelin and asking him what he's actually trying to do. Managers seem to get lost at times, and running back through what they're trying to achieve and how might just help them think their way out of the slump.

[Nordicus]

manager is totally  useless

we win the odd game by a mixture of good fortune & the law of averages

how much are we wastin on   Yengi wages  & the variety of other duds at the club

[Elgindon]

7 hours ago, RicoS321 said:

I guess it's whether two or three targeted good players can bring the best out of the ones who are technically good footballers, but not quite good enough. Guys like Jensen work hard, and are comfortable on the ball. They'd be fine with a couple of strong midfielders for example. We've overloaded on safe, technical players, basically, but they do have their uses. One or two good signings could comfortably get us through to summer until we can recruit better, and clear out again. I'd like to see us revert to a back four once we get signings in, and play like we did when JT first joined (which is essentially what Motherwell are doing, and I suspect they'll get found out in the next round of fixtures too).

 

True,Robson and Flood for eg lifted a pretty dull side at that time.Now that we appear to have a proper recruitment man in place, lets see what he can muster in Jan before we right abdy off

[OrlandoDon]

23 minutes ago, Elgindon said:

True,Robson and Flood for eg lifted a pretty dull side at that time.Now that we appear to have a proper recruitment man in place, lets see what he can muster in Jan before we right abdy off

Three signings are essential. Left mid, right mid, two legit wide players, and a Rama center mid. Add the legit center mid and we might get the most out of Clarkson. The more I think about it, he’s not too different from Kenny McLean, and is he can thrive in the SPL, do not see why Clarkson can’t. Play karlsson at 10 in a free role rather than out wide.