Remaining Elfsborg fixtures.

[tlg1903]

I'm probably going to watch a fair few of these (well, have on my second screen whilst I play football manager anyway) and given some of you might be interested I thought I would post my thoughts on them here.  

home to Kalmar this eve, 6pm KO.

Edited April 22 by tlg1903

[RicoS321]

He's already downed tools, doesn't give a fuck. He's Aberdeen through and through now, just going through the motions with those Swedish losers.

[BigAl]

8 hours ago, tlg1903 said:

I'm probably going to watch a fair few of these (well, have on my second screen whilst I play football manager anyway) and given some of you might be interested I thought I would post my thoughts on them here.  

home to Kalmar this eve, 6pm KO.

Goal down already.

 

8 hours ago, RicoS321 said:

He's already downed tools, doesn't give a fuck. He's Aberdeen through and through now, just going through the motions with those Swedish losers.

Think Rico has called it 

 

 

[BigAl]

Jimmy can obviously deliver a half time team talk 

One each, two minutes into second half 

[OrlandoDon]

Lost 2-1. Hopefully they hire their new guy asap and send jimmy to us early. Makes sense to both parties.

[RicoS321]

This guy's shite. Should go for Lennon.

[tlg1903]

I couldn't find a stream of this one in the end on Kodi, hopefully can find one Tom eve

[BigAl]

Jesus Christ

 

We've employed a total fraudster

Elfsborg currently 3-2;down with fifteen minutes to go and heading for a relegation scrap.

Jimmy's is going to feel right at home here 

[BigAl]

Jimmy out

4-2 down

 

[OrlandoDon]

44 minutes ago, BigAl said:

Jimmy out

4-2 down

 

Told you John Hughes was a better option despite poorer English.

[Panda]

Won 2-0 tonight. That'll shut up the weegie press.

[Panda]

Gonna take a lot of getting used to for many Aberdeen fans, this giving up possession but being able to counter and be clinical (although our average possession this season has been about 46%).

Won 2-0 with 33% possession. 

[tlg1903]

Forgot they were playing Malmo today but managed to find a stream.  Currently 1 up at  home at HT.   My very early impressions after watching the ten minutes before half time are as follows.  Elfsborg are a very direct side, not in a long ball merchant way, just when they get possession they don't fanny about.  I Initially thought they were playing a 433 but it was just because the camera was cutting out the right winger.  They actually look to be playing a 442 that turns into a 424 the moment they get possession.   Couldn't tell you what the goal was like as h/t analysis is about 2 minutes long (they like their ads in Sweden) and i missed the one replay they showed. Edit, just saw it there.  Decent turn and ping from the edge of the box 

Stats are interesting as well and similar to the above post by panda.  Safe to say Jimmy T ain't a fan of Tika Taka.  As for how well such an approach will be appreciated by the pittodrie faithful?  If he wins enough I'm sure it will be fine but i would add high possession stats and entertaining football are not mutually exclusive.  

[OrlandoDon]

One of the comments burrows (I think) made was that he plays a style that suits our league.  For the level of league and the players we can afford, tika taca is going to be tough to do. Sounds like he plays a counter type of game, eg get forward asap, but not just blooter it long and hope.

while not my preference of style of play, I’d suggest it’s realistic to our league and what we can afford??

[RicoS321]

30 minutes ago, OrlandoDon said:

One of the comments burrows (I think) made was that he plays a style that suits our league.  For the level of league and the players we can afford, tika taca is going to be tough to do. Sounds like he plays a counter type of game, eg get forward asap, but not just blooter it long and hope.

while not my preference of style of play, I’d suggest it’s realistic to our league and what we can afford??

It's what Robson tried and failed to do. It works well against good teams, but we're not going to be sacrificing 70% of the possession against County or Killie at home. It doesn't take long for teams to figure out a team's style either. You need to have at least two ways of playing in the SPFL (unless you're a Livingston or Hamilton or whoever). I agree that passing out from the back falls down massively when we recruit a hoofer at the back because that's what we can afford.

[Panda]

Two thoughts.

One, after a poor run, Jimmy Thelin has just handed the Swedish league leaders their arse.

Two, how the hell did he manage to hand them their arse with just 19% possession? What is this sorcery?

[tlg1903]

10 hours ago, Panda said:

Two thoughts.

One, after a poor run, Jimmy Thelin has just handed the Swedish league leaders their arse.

Two, how the hell did he manage to hand them their arse with just 19% possession? What is this sorcery?

This was the most interesting thing, I watched all of the second half and Elfsborg were well worth their win.  I would go as far as to say that despite their low possession there wasn't many points that they didn't look completely in control of the game.  Malmo are clearly used to having lots of the ball and Elfsborg would let them have it in their own half (unless trying to regain just lost possession) but once into Elfsborgs half they kinda herd them into specific areas then pounce on them and invariably take the ball.  Then they break.  And every time they break with purpose, players flood forward and within a few seconds a lot of the time the defenders are facing their goal and panicking. 

One of the most notable things was there was a couple of passages of play where they had just taken the ball and they had be very tidy with it not to lose it again straight away.  In other words don't let the low possession stat make you think Elfsborg can't pass the ball and keep it, they absolutely can and I'm sure could play a possession strategy if they so wished.  The fact they don't wish to is what makes this such a very interesting setup and I genuinely can't recall seeing anything quite like it before.   After watching that game I am now quite glad Thelin isn't coming till June, you could not come into a team midseason and try and implement this way of playing.  It could also be argued the league cup group stage could provide a useful testing ground to what is going to be a drastic change in strategy for the first team.  

 

[RicoS321]

4 hours ago, tlg1903 said:

This was the most interesting thing, I watched all of the second half and Elfsborg were well worth their win.  I would go as far as to say that despite their low possession there wasn't many points that they didn't look completely in control of the game.  Malmo are clearly used to having lots of the ball and Elfsborg would let them have it in their own half (unless trying to regain just lost possession) but once into Elfsborgs half they kinda herd them into specific areas then pounce on them and invariably take the ball.  Then they break.  And every time they break with purpose, players flood forward and within a few seconds a lot of the time the defenders are facing their goal and panicking. 

One of the most notable things was there was a couple of passages of play where they had just taken the ball and they had be very tidy with it not to lose it again straight away.  In other words don't let the low possession stat make you think Elfsborg can't pass the ball and keep it, they absolutely can and I'm sure could play a possession strategy if they so wished.  The fact they don't wish to is what makes this such a very interesting setup and I genuinely can't recall seeing anything quite like it before.   After watching that game I am now quite glad Thelin isn't coming till June, you could not come into a team midseason and try and implement this way of playing.  It could also be argued the league cup group stage could provide a useful testing ground to what is going to be a drastic change in strategy for the first team.  

 

But it is, definitely, what Robson was attempting (and largely failing) to do. Your description of the game could be used to describe our performance against the Huns at Ibrox earlier in the season for example. We had 29% possession, but 14 shots on goal with 6 on target, dominated them and nobody could deny we deserved our win. Shinnie was immense in that game, and the chasing down of the ball was generally centred around him firing in, but with the rest actually backing him up (as opposed to the Flood-esque chasing shadows that we've often seen as the rest remain in shape). Of course, that game was largely against the norm for a couple of reasons. The first is that we didn't have the personnel to do that - as soon as you add an unpredictable Duk to the mix, you're screwed for example. The second is that for 70% of our games, we'll be up against a team that sits deep and allows us possession, and we'll need a separate strategy for those games (where Duk of two seasons ago would be immense). 

Either way, we're maybe four or five players short for the Thelin approach. I imagine guys like Sokler might be useful, Shinnie definitely, but we'll need far more intensity from McGrath for example and at least another midfielder that's willing to cover a lot of ground. Our biggest problem will be when we get injuries or suspension and have to delve deeper into our squad. There's basically nothing there that will fulfil the energy gap. Polvara would need to really buckle down in preseason to improve his yardage, for example, and then he would be feeling aggrieved if not in the first eleven. That said, the different approaches and intensity required will work to our advantage in maintaining squad harmony. I can imagine a few players needing a rest, and that option will be available as we change tactics depending on opponent. 

[tlg1903]

On 06/05/2024 at 16:25, RicoS321 said:

But it is, definitely, what Robson was attempting (and largely failing) to do. Your description of the game could be used to describe our performance against the Huns at Ibrox earlier in the season for example. We had 29% possession, but 14 shots on goal with 6 on target, dominated them and nobody could deny we deserved our win. Shinnie was immense in that game, and the chasing down of the ball was generally centred around him firing in, but with the rest actually backing him up (as opposed to the Flood-esque chasing shadows that we've often seen as the rest remain in shape). Of course, that game was largely against the norm for a couple of reasons. The first is that we didn't have the personnel to do that - as soon as you add an unpredictable Duk to the mix, you're screwed for example. The second is that for 70% of our games, we'll be up against a team that sits deep and allows us possession, and we'll need a separate strategy for those games (where Duk of two seasons ago would be immense). 

Either way, we're maybe four or five players short for the Thelin approach. I imagine guys like Sokler might be useful, Shinnie definitely, but we'll need far more intensity from McGrath for example and at least another midfielder that's willing to cover a lot of ground. Our biggest problem will be when we get injuries or suspension and have to delve deeper into our squad. There's basically nothing there that will fulfil the energy gap. Polvara would need to really buckle down in preseason to improve his yardage, for example, and then he would be feeling aggrieved if not in the first eleven. That said, the different approaches and intensity required will work to our advantage in maintaining squad harmony. I can imagine a few players needing a rest, and that option will be available as we change tactics depending on opponent. 

I suppose he was to an extent, yes, in the games where he thought we would be under the cosh anyway.   Robson was very big on transitions as well but you got me curious so i had a look at some of stats from the first half of the season and we only ever had low possession stats like that against the sides much bigger than us.  If Robson was really going for that strategy there's games he would have had great opportunity to use it in and he didn't.  Eg the semi against hibs we had 52%, hearts at tynecastle in september 47%.  Obviously I've only seen Elfsborg for 60 minutes at home against the top team in the league but my feeling is that he doesn't change it around much.  Looking at Elfsborgs fixtures so far they haven't had one match where they have had more possession than their opponent.  The closest they came was 48% and their average for all the games they have played so far this season is 38%.

In other words I don't think you are wrong to draw the comparison with Robson but it was more of a part time strategy when up against it for him imo.   I don't think this is the case with Thelin, I think he's fully committed to it.  How he makes that work with teams that want to sit in I don't know as I've not seen enough of them but given Elfsborg are one of the bigger clubs in Sweden you would think this is a problem he has encountered before.  He has five more games in charge and if I can find streams I'm defo watching them but they are all against teams in the current top 6 so we are not likely to gain much insight into the sitting in issue sadly.  

[Panda]

Elfsborg's mini run of form is ended by a 2-0 defeat to Djurgårdens, who are currently second in the table.

At 39% possession Elfsborg had far too much of the ball, that clearly was their first mistake.

Five games left for Thelin, four of them against teams higher than Elfsborg, and they appear to be facing Malmo again so soon after beating them.

[OrlandoDon]

Really curious to how thelin approaches us. Yes he seems to have his style, and yes we have squad rebuilding this summer, but I’d expect at least 50% possession against all teams in the league except the old firm, maybe hearts. I like that we’ve also gone back to a more possession/ passing style of play than just mindless long ball. Robson tried what thelin seems to do but it’s was mind numbing and eye bleeding stuff all season until he left.
Hibs game today the commentators made the point that it looks like the shackles have been taken off and we have players who can play. I’d say it’s the threat of relegation gone for the most part today! Polvara clarkson and McGrath for example are all pretty technical players, and while I’d say clarkson is the only legit starter, don’t see him wanting to chase all game. (Barron too but I suspect he’s gone.)

[Panda]

8 hours ago, OrlandoDon said:

but I’d expect at least 50% possession against all teams in the league except the old firm, maybe hearts. I like that we’ve also gone back to a more possession/ passing style of play than just mindless long ball

We had less possession than Hibs yesterday and won 4-0, which is an interesting thing. 

Likewise, the best performance we had under Robson was the 3-0 win over Hearts last season where we had 38% possession.

A few stats from yesterday:-

Hibs actually won more challenges than us. They also dominated us in the air.

All their passing, whether it was short, long, lateral, forward or back, were more accurate than Aberdeen's.

Their xg was 0.9 compared to 1.17 for Aberdeen, so not a huge difference. We both had the same shots on target.

They had more corners, but only 12% of them led to a shot at goal. It was 33% for us.

Our crosses had just under a 40% accuracy compared to 20% for Hibs.

Basically, we were more clinical. Our first two goals, lovely finishes as they are, were free hits. Third and fourth we've overloaded them on their six yard line. 

It wasn't actually counter attacking football by Aberdeen though. We played a team who are powderpuff, who did have opportunities to hurt us but didn't take them, and we've shown them how it's done.

 

 

 

 

[BigAl]

Playing AIK just now

5-0 up inside sixty minutes.

[Panda]

A 6-1 win with 32% possession.

What's Swedish for otrolig?  

[baggy89]

Possession is meaningless, in a way. Absolutely fine to give up possession if it's passive. A good possession team will drag their opposition out of shape and switch the play quickly. If you can engage the press in a way that you don't lose your shape, the opposition can pass it round the horseshoe all they want. Unless your playing a team like Man City, who will exploit those minor changes in shape and press. If you're shape and press is good, you're negating most teams possession as passive. Then the difference will be in the transitions and the speed and accuracy of those. 

The interesting thing for me with, what appears to be Thelin's style, is how does that work against teams that are happy to give up possession to us, about 70% of the league. Was that why Robson's team resorted to punting it up-field? "You have the ball so we can play our style".