RicoS321

That's not irony.

Yes, you've only quoted the first sentence, the next one or two addressed what you wrote in full. My part about you, was in response to the "won't bother their arse part". Perhaps it wasn't clear, apologies. I think we're in agreement that people who don't go because Pittodrie is difficult to get to will replace those who won't go when in Westhill. The difference being that I don't believe those numbers are anywhere close to even. I think you're in the minority. I think most teuchters do the miles (as I did from the North and do from the South) that are going to do the miles. I don't believe that there are a swathe of teuchters that are just waiting on the dons moving before piling in. I think regular teuchter dons fans go already - they're already in their car. They'll just experience a slightly shorter journey, depending on from where they travel (I travel from the South and take fuck all time to get to Pittodrie). I do, however, believe that a large number of city based fans won't make the trip, in the same way that they wouldn't go to Homebase in Portlethen. It defeats the purpose of living in the city. When I bade in Ferryhill, I walked, it was easy. I wouldn't have gone to Westhill on a tinky bus.

What I'm saying is that we don't generally struggle to get decent crowds for big games. I don't believe the atmosphere will help significantly in that regard as it's not really an issue (i.e. tonight's game would have sold out if it was on Saturday, and will probably be close anyway). The atmosphere will undoubtedly be better, but that would only really be useful in selling more for smaller games.

Nobody is, but it's the wrong measure. The number of fans that don't travel from all over Aberdeenshire is the relevant statistic.

You could be correct, I have serious doubts though. I have no doubt that all those games will sell out in the first few seasons but in 10 years time, once the new thing has been wiped away, we'll not sell out Hibs and Hertz. There are numerous examples of us selling out games against the hun in the last 2 decades at a Pittodrie that - as pointed out - hasn't changed, so it's a pretty invalid argument. It's a Tuesday night, and performances were poor this season. Had it been a Saturday at 3pm and we'd between them twice already this season there would have been a sell out. The atmosphere when Madison scored his free kick was pretty decent in recent times. It's a direct correlation between crowd size and excitement. The enclosed stands will definitely amplify it, I've certainly nae issue with the proposed design.

Thought I'd bump this up a little. O'Connor announced yesterday that he would be leaving at the end of the season. Unsurprising that nobody seemed to gie a fuck! At fault for the goal against Hibns, hopefully he'll give us a good performance tonight in his last home game. Good luck to him. His one-footedness and lack of pace mean he'll not get a better team than the dons in his career. Hopefully Devlin is a significant step up and we get a good squad player to replace him.

Exactly. It's why I'm pleased with the way the fixtures have worked out. It gives us a true test of our second place credentials. I don't believe we're the second best squad on paper (nor in budget), so it'll be a very decent achievement to finish second in the league.

Good article here, not really about Western lies per say, but a very good analysis of the system with respect to the food chain. Worth a read like, it's something that should concern, and raise questions in, everyone. https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/may/08/how-the-chicken-nugget-became-the-true-symbol-of-our-era

^^^This.

Do I have to look back through the thread to find the quote where you stated that you don't attend Pittodrie because of the hassle involved in the commute from Garlogie? I'm not quite sure what makes you think that the opposite won't be true? But you're really just backing up my point, I'm suggesting that the displacement of existing loyal fans must be replaced with a similar number of new fans. You clearly think that will be no problem, I don't. Basic foot-fall figures would suggest that out-of-sight-out-of-mind is more likely to occur in Westhill than in a city centre. Westhill as an attraction in itself holds absolutely zero. My wife isn't going to spend three hours in Costco or the magnificent Greggs and surrounding shops while I head to the fitba. It's basic logic really. My opinion is that in ten years time we will have a lower core support than we do now. The point about McGhee, Paterson etc is about understanding the dynamics of Scottish fitba. Our crowds were significantly down in those years because the fitba was pish. Building a new stadium, with our level of support, is not suddenly going to turn us into league challengers. As long as the hun continue their slow but steadyish rise, then the dons will become more of a bit-part in the game and crowds will dwindle again. Indeed, if the scouse tink manages a return to the helicopter Sundays then the interest gained over the last few years will quickly diminish. We can afford that at Pittodrie, it's proven over a century that crowds can wain without permanent decline because it's still there and still visible. I don't believe that same robustness will exist at Westhill, unless something drastically changes on the way the city is designed and the stadium becomes enveloped in new building, developed in a completely new way (i.e. nae another Kingswells). I think that the opposite will occur in that the core support will be closer to that of Kilmarnock than Hearts or Hibs in ten years time (again, ignoring the undoubted initial large crowds, they will be a blip).

A touch patronising. I'd suggest that DD is more likely to be able to think for himself than those attracted to the shiny new thing for the first few years of its existence. Take me for instance: I've said I'll go to the Westhill arena when it's built. However, I'm also know that I wouldn't have travelled to Westhill during the Paterson, late Calderwood and McGhee eras. Whilst we may be replaced by others, you're very reliant on those "others" being as "hardcore" as the likes of me and donsdaft. That generational thing for us, that may or may not be acquired by those that come after. What I, and others, are saying is that we'll find it a lot easier to give up as there just isn't the same pull toward Westhill that makes the trip worthwhile. Hopefully Westhill will breed the next generation of super-fan, as folk like me and DD will need replaced when the time comes. It's clear that there is a very small window in which to do this, and anyone who understands the dynamics of Scottish fitba would probably realise that the odds of this aren't great. There is a good chance that the core support (let's say season ticket holders for sake of argument) will be less than current after ten years at the new stadium, and that is the measure it should be held to. Out of town developments are not the future.

Nah, the really shite, mass-produced pish will continue to sell as they're the only ones that make money. It's progress, ken?

It's a good point LA Don. We were always pap under McGhee and Brown, so playing youngsters was easy as it couldn't get any worse. We've not quite got the balance right though and there is a lot of time afforded to cunts like Maynard, Nwakali, Tansey and so on how simply aren't better than our youngsters but given time because they're "experienced". That type of dross just needs to be filtered out. Wright should be in for GMS tomorrow night, but definitely won't be, and so shouldn't appear on our bench. It's an evidenced mistake not sending Wright out on loan in January, and McInnes should be held to account by someone at the club for that decision. We should have targets in place for minutes played/experience gained which can be fulfilled by loan if necessary, so that McInnes is answerable to someone/something for his judgement on what should be a sellable asset.

Fucking hope not. Useless little cunt. Not sure why he's still here, nor Maynard. GMS will be a miss. That assault fae the little Hibee Scott Brown probably didn't help.

Fair play to Gerrard, he's obviously signed on those terms. Expecting to raise £6M fae the duped masses (again) from a share issue next month. That'll turn into about £3M. I'm guessing nobody at the press conference asked King where his £11M takeover money was?

I don't think that's a true statement. Anyway, looking forward to it. A fantastic end to the season in terms of the meaningful games, and hopefully see a full house for it. I'm struggling to think of our best line up for this one. They'll play a back three, with Tavernier - who's been their biggest threat against us this season - pushing very high up as wing back. I think we should try to match that formation, as I think that gives us our best chance of winning. We seem to really struggle when playing 4-2-3-1 against a five in midfield and I think that most decent teams will know that (the huns aren't pish by any stretch). I'd go: ---------------Lewis-------------- ----O'Connor----Consi----McKenna-- Logan--Ball-McLean--Shinnie-McGinn ----------May----Cosgrove----------- With McLean pushing right through from midfield like he did against Hertz, as they'll try and take it short from the 'keeper. Swap Ball for Christie as and when required. Get McGinn pushing Tavernier back as much as possible. May in for his pace (i.e. faster than Rooney) only, which will be required against a better passing back 3.

I reckon the Bread Maker in Rosemount's were hard to beat in recent times. Although it's actually been a while since I've had one from there due to not being in the area that often these days. They were massive too. My in-laws give me rowies to dip in broth. It's actually really fine.

Good luck. Think you might need to whisky-up that tea in order to make sense of it.

Aye, it was actually quite an enjoyable game. Good bit of bite about it and a decent battle. McGinn should have been off for that challenge on GMS, it was off the fuckin pitch. Shinnie top performer for us. Cosgrove did well again, May pap and Stewart also pap (although Stewart was also lazy). Ball okay, but generally agree with DD about him. O'Connor was gash, should have closed the player down for the pen. GMS good first half but should have been off earlier. Wright shouldn't have been at the club since January, complete waste of a player. Really missed McLean, very obvious even from little things like no-one being available for throw-ins. Anyway, not the worst result or performance. A bit more cutting edge on Tuesday with the same fight and we'll be in with a shout. Will likely need something against the Tims now though. To add, in response to Chick, Lewis started way behind the line for the pen and didn't really finish that far ahead of it

Four years. Gerrard played a blinder there like. I bet he's been down to B&Q for a sturdy trowel and fork combo that'll last a good 3.5 years.

I had a bit of respect for Duncan, quite liked him really.

Nobody gives a fuck about the WANKS, the question was raised about financing though, and some incorrect statements raised. Given it's a forum, surely worth discussing? What sort of mortgage/debt level do you think would be acceptable for the new stadium for example? If we can't get investment for £20M of the stadium cost, should we land ourselves with a £20M mortgage while the chairman is repaid his debts and walks away (this is an example, not my understanding)? Who do you think are the investors, and what will they get in return that they couldn't have had over the last 25 years where they didn't choose to invest?

Clearly, because that wasn't my argument, hence the "if".

Maybe, but if no that's what donsdaft believes then the notion that he should blindly "get behind it" is surely a ridiculous one?

People do understand that. The issue is that those barriers have not been tested. There is also a regulation that says that you can't build on green belt land, yet that was tested via application at Kingsford and successfully passed. Your suggestion, therefore, that "all the evidence being [has been] put in front of them" is - as you know - completely false. The closest I've had to evidence as a 20+ year season ticket holder is a drawing fae TW on here. I've not seen a 12,000 seater stadium drawing that show the sun/daylight trajectories, the detailed drawings, the detailed reasons as to why the giant road behind the main stand cannot be reduced in size to accommodate a larger stand (yet can be completely removed to build the planned flats). Nothing at all has been produced that could possibly ever be classed as evidence, we've only ever been told to trust the club. Most importantly - and as one of the councilors at the planning consultation for Kingsford pointed out - they have never brought forward a plan to the council that could be tested. That's because - and this is the only reason - the club do not want to, and have never wanted to, stay at Pittodrie. That's not conspiracy theory or even criticism, that's just a statement of fact. Feel free to challenge any individual point I've made here. Except that's bollocks. Of course it matters where it is. If it's difficult to get to and in an non-enjoyable location then folk won't go. People like me will go every week, because fitba is what we enjoy doing, but we've only got - at best - 10K of those folks. The happy-clapping bullshit of group thinking: "they need to get behind it" will not persuade the occasional fans to turn out 3-5 years after its built if the location is shite. We don't "need to get behind it", we need people to think for themselves and evaluate the proposition based on the evidence. This is no different to saying "Scottish football needs Rangers". People don't need to be told what to think, it's fucking insulting and exactly the sort of attitude that results in the biggest unfairness we see in society as a whole today. If the club build a shite stadium in a shite location, then the club goes the way of the hun and that's the way it should be. The club is not more important than its fans, and the decision to exclude them from this entire process is a dangerous one.