Crazy American Politics

[Mason89]

It would be nice for someone to tell him to fuck off. Worth a go, seeing as they’ve tried everything else 

[redordead]

Totally agree. He'd probably be in tears.   Clearly a kid who never got a slap from his maw

[TheDonbytheDee]

According to Private Eye, he has been told to pony up £700k, by a Scottish court, which are legal costs of someone he took to court and lost against.

He is now trying to get around it by saying he doesn't have to pay it, as he is the American President.

The Judge is taking none of his shyte though.

A little victory maybe, but still nice to read it.

 

[Jupiter]

Somebody needs to tell Trump that tariffs are paid by American people buying imports and not by other countries.

[OrlandoDon]

1 hour ago, Jupiter said:

Somebody needs to tell Trump that tariffs are paid by American people buying imports and not by other countries.

I don’t buy that argument. The trillions brought in on foreign trade more than cover that, plus we’re most likely getting a tax refund later this year. 
inflation in December was at 2.7%, the lowest since 2020 pre COVID.

[RicoS321]

2 hours ago, OrlandoDon said:

inflation in December was at 2.7%, the lowest since 2020 pre COVID

I don't really care, but I think that isn't correct. I don't even think 2.7% is the lowest since Trump got into office. However, inflation doesn't necessarily tie in with tariffs anyway. That would be dependent on the items in the basket of goods being imported from a tariffed country. 

It is entirely correct that tariffs are paid by the US consumer. The offset to that is not the trillions brought in by foreign trade, obviously. It would be the money spent within the US (US consumers buying US made goods) that was previously spent on imports. If I am in the US buying timber from France and it suddenly gets a 25% tariff, then I buy from the usually more expensive US supplier for example. France doesn't suddenly buy US timber too, because the price of French timber for French people doesn't incur the tariff. The direct effect of the tariff is a cost to the US consumer, the offset being a potential increase in tax take from the resulting sale in the US. Does that make sense (genuine question, I'm going through the logic in my own head!)?

[OrlandoDon]

9 minutes ago, RicoS321 said:

I don't really care, but I think that isn't correct. I don't even think 2.7% is the lowest since Trump got into office. However, inflation doesn't necessarily tie in with tariffs anyway. That would be dependent on the items in the basket of goods being imported from a tariffed country. 

It is entirely correct that tariffs are paid by the US consumer. The offset to that is not the trillions brought in by foreign trade, obviously. It would be the money spent within the US (US consumers buying US made goods) that was previously spent on imports. If I am in the US buying timber from France and it suddenly gets a 25% tariff, then I buy from the usually more expensive US supplier for example. France doesn't suddenly buy US timber too, because the price of French timber for French people doesn't incur the tariff. The direct effect of the tariff is a cost to the US consumer, the offset being a potential increase in tax take from the resulting sale in the US. Does that make sense (genuine question, I'm going through the logic in my own head!)?

It was 2.7 in December. But you are correct, we’ve been at 2.4 twice since Oct 2024 I think. 
I understand inflation, but if you are talking tariffs you have to look at the bigger picture. Unemployment is slightly down, wages are up. Gas prices are significant down. People have more money. You’re seeing business and investment coming into the US. It doesn’t change over night, but you’re seeing an improving economy. I think our economy will only strengthen in the next few years as a result of the influx of new investment and business interests from trumps changes, including the tariffs.
 

While inflation increases prices, there is more money in the hands of the consumer. Add in there the big beautiful bill and tax changes, i was able to deduct up to 10k in property taxes, mortgage interest, that has been increased to 40k i believe. That’s a big deal to me and now I’m deducting 20-30k. Throw in the waste fraud and abuse and the funds recovered from that, I believe I’ll be receiving somewhere between $4000-$8000 this year in tariff stimulus/dividend checks. Pretty sure they’ll come out mid late summer prior to the mid terms, obviously strategic.

General costs of many everyday good are down, but what is mainly hurting the economy is housing prices and mortgage rates. Rates are coming down but not nearly where they were pre COVID.
 

there’s a lot of positives helping people have more money. What’s interesting here in Florida this year and voting in November, is that you may well see property taxes significantly reduced or even eliminated for permanent Florida residents, saving someone like me approx $8000 annually.

said it may times here before, not sure what news you hear back home from here, but there are good things going on helping people right now. 

[Mason89]

We just mainly hear about their gestapo shooting Americans in the face, the child sex trafficking and fascist stuff but that’s good news about property taxes 

[TheDonbytheDee]

1 hour ago, Mason89 said:

We just mainly hear about their gestapo shooting Americans in the face, the child sex trafficking and fascist stuff but that’s good news about property taxes 

Hitler got the German economy going again too.

He put money into the pockets of the people and pride back into a nation. They also liked to threaten nations and take control of them.

There are certainly parallels between 1930s Germany and Trumps America.

There are also quite a few, really scary fuckers behind Trump, who I am quite sure are influenced by Nazi ideology.

 

 

[RicoS321]

7 hours ago, OrlandoDon said:

It was 2.7 in December. But you are correct, we’ve been at 2.4 twice since Oct 2024 I think. 
I understand inflation, but if you are talking tariffs you have to look at the bigger picture. Unemployment is slightly down, wages are up. Gas prices are significant down. People have more money. You’re seeing business and investment coming into the US. It doesn’t change over night, but you’re seeing an improving economy. I think our economy will only strengthen in the next few years as a result of the influx of new investment and business interests from trumps changes, including the tariffs.
 

While inflation increases prices, there is more money in the hands of the consumer. Add in there the big beautiful bill and tax changes, i was able to deduct up to 10k in property taxes, mortgage interest, that has been increased to 40k i believe. That’s a big deal to me and now I’m deducting 20-30k. Throw in the waste fraud and abuse and the funds recovered from that, I believe I’ll be receiving somewhere between $4000-$8000 this year in tariff stimulus/dividend checks. Pretty sure they’ll come out mid late summer prior to the mid terms, obviously strategic.

General costs of many everyday good are down, but what is mainly hurting the economy is housing prices and mortgage rates. Rates are coming down but not nearly where they were pre COVID.
 

there’s a lot of positives helping people have more money. What’s interesting here in Florida this year and voting in November, is that you may well see property taxes significantly reduced or even eliminated for permanent Florida residents, saving someone like me approx $8000 annually.

said it may times here before, not sure what news you hear back home from here, but there are good things going on helping people right now. 

I don't have to look at any bigger picture to see the effects of tariffs, which is what the poster is talking about. None of the points you make have anything to do with tariffs, or what @Jupiter originally stated. He said:

12 hours ago, Jupiter said:

Somebody needs to tell Trump that tariffs are paid by American people buying imports and not by other countries.

Which is correct. You've taken that post as some sort of attack on the performance of the US economy, and responded to an entirely different point. You've then questioned where people get their news from, as if he (or me) was wrong. 

Why is it important for some? Probably, because Trump is using tariffs to bypass US democracy, from your perspective, and he's using them as a tool to bully other humans in the world rather than negotiate in good faith from the perspective of elsewhere. Including for the purposes of annexing a NATO ally. If I was in Yankee Doodle land, and cared about Nations and governments, I wouldn't be remotely concerned whether they made me money or not (they don't), I'd be disgusted by those two glaring points. I'm not in yankland, nor do I care about Nations and their governments, so I don't care in the slightest. I do prefer to see accuracy in a discussion though, and the etiquette of staying on point. Otherwise how does anyone know anything?

[Mason89]

33 minutes ago, TheDonbytheDee said:

Hitler got the German economy going again too.

He put money into the pockets of the people and pride back into a nation. They also liked to threaten nations and take control of them.

There are certainly parallels between 1930s Germany and Trumps America.

There are also quite a few, really scary fuckers behind Trump, who I am quite sure are influenced by Nazi ideology.

 

 

The permanently sweaty oddball Peter Theil, grew up in a town in Namibia where they all spoke German & glorified Nazis 

Im sure that’s a coincidence though 

[Don Julio]

7 hours ago, OrlandoDon said:
I understand inflation, but if you are talking tariffs you have to look at the bigger picture. Unemployment is slightly down, wages are up. Gas prices are significant down. People have more money. You’re seeing business and investment coming into the US. It doesn’t change over night, but you’re seeing an improving economy. I think our economy will only strengthen in the next few years as a result of the influx of new investment and business interests from trumps changes, including the tariffs.
 

While inflation increases prices, there is more money in the hands of the consumer. Add in there the big beautiful bill and tax changes, i was able to deduct up to 10k in property taxes, mortgage interest, that has been increased to 40k i believe. That’s a big deal to me and now I’m deducting 20-30k. Throw in the waste fraud and abuse and the funds recovered from that, I believe I’ll be receiving somewhere between $4000-$8000 this year in tariff stimulus/dividend checks. Pretty sure they’ll come out mid late summer prior to the mid terms, obviously strategic.

General costs of many everyday good are down, but what is mainly hurting the economy is housing prices and mortgage rates. Rates are coming down but not nearly where they were pre COVID.
 

there’s a lot of positives helping people have more money. What’s interesting here in Florida this year and voting in November, is that you may well see property taxes significantly reduced or even eliminated for permanent Florida residents, saving someone like me approx $8000 annually.

said it may times here before, not sure what news you hear back home from here, but there are good things going on helping people right now. 

I’m not attacking your politics but in terms of economics some of this  simply don’t make sense.

Tariffs increase the price of imported goods . They don’t reduce the price of competing domestic goods. So gas prices can’t come down because of tariffs. They could come down because of an increase in domestic or international supply - e.g. opening up new oil fields or seizing Venezuelan oil or just a dip in prices because OPEC open the taps. Either way, not tariff related.

Equally inflation can’t lead to more money in the hands of the consumer. Tax breaks obviously can, but then you need to identify which consumers benefit as it’s pretty hard to give all consumers a tax break that lands equally across different income deciles. And if you did it would stoke inflation.

If inflation is up, costs of goods overall can’t be down. You do say “many goods” but they must be a minority. By definition inflation at any level means prices are rising. Lower inflation just means at a slower rate than before. All of which is not to say that you necessarily want 0 inflation, but central banks generally aim for below 2%.

As I said, not questioning your politics, but it’s important to separate out the different factors at play.

Trump is clearly targeting sources of raw materials overseas. Rare earth minerals in Ukraine, oil in Venezuela, not sure precisely what in Greenland. American consumers will benefit from that. The question you have to ask is at what price for the rest of the world?

[OrlandoDon]

I’m not taking this as an attack, just commenting that there’s more to tariffs in play in my opinion. I’m simply pointing out that while the tariffs affect the cost of goods, there are other factors that mean the economy here is changing. It’s not simply that it becomes more expensive because of tariffs, other factors make it more affordable which means the tariff changes aren’t impacting us the way some may seem to make out.

the tariffs have also resulted in jobs and industry moving back here which brings more jobs and money into our economy.

we’re not in a deflationary period, but inflation was at around 9% at one point, we’re now mid 2s. Increasing costs have certainly slowed while new laws/benefits are in place that I believe more than compensate for the tariffs.

i know I see things differently and I tend to avoid this thread now as Ive had personal attacks when I comment on my personal experience here, but I hear some truths, many partial truths posted, or flat out incorrect points and that’s hard to take at times. Tariffs are one that have been used to improve us economy, but they have had a very negative spin in the media, and can obviously negatively affect other countries (but that’s not what I am discussing.)

[OrlandoDon]

2 hours ago, Don Julio said:

I’m not attacking your politics but in terms of economics some of this  simply don’t make sense.

Tariffs increase the price of imported goods . They don’t reduce the price of competing domestic goods. So gas prices can’t come down because of tariffs. They could come down because of an increase in domestic or international supply - e.g. opening up new oil fields or seizing Venezuelan oil or just a dip in prices because OPEC open the taps. Either way, not tariff related.

Equally inflation can’t lead to more money in the hands of the consumer. Tax breaks obviously can, but then you need to identify which consumers benefit as it’s pretty hard to give all consumers a tax break that lands equally across different income deciles. And if you did it would stoke inflation.

If inflation is up, costs of goods overall can’t be down. You do say “many goods” but they must be a minority. By definition inflation at any level means prices are rising. Lower inflation just means at a slower rate than before. All of which is not to say that you necessarily want 0 inflation, but central banks generally aim for below 2%.

As I said, not questioning your politics, but it’s important to separate out the different factors at play.

Trump is clearly targeting sources of raw materials overseas. Rare earth minerals in Ukraine, oil in Venezuela, not sure precisely what in Greenland. American consumers will benefit from that. The question you have to ask is at what price for the rest of the world?

I totally hear you on the last point. I honestly dont have an issue blowing up Venezuelan drug boats and overthrowing a drug cartel. Thats less drugs here, and less drugs going to the UK. Think that benefits us all. I also think it’s not so much about US access to oil or minerals, but preventing them going to Russia and china. I thinks it’s just as much if not more that than simply the US wanting more. Squeezing them has its concerns.

Greenland is directly between Russia and the US. US has military interests there that not only protect against missile detection/interception, but also protects Europe. a defensive move in my opinion to protect more than just the US. Im not 100% certain but I read that with the arctic melting you could see about 40% of world trade using the waters around Greenland. Russia has significantly increased shipping and military in those areas and US is trying to prevent being limitled/cut off and improve access for the US and allies. Just what I read!

 

[Mason89]

How do you know they’re drug boats? 

[OrlandoDon]

4 minutes ago, Mason89 said:

How do you know they’re drug boats? 

We can only ‘believe’ what we see/read, but it’s the satellite images plus the type of boats used, the size and speed say a lot.

[Mason89]

9 minutes ago, OrlandoDon said:

We can only ‘believe’ what we see/read, but it’s the satellite images plus the type of boats used, the size and speed say a lot.

They say absolutely nothing about drugs. 

[OrlandoDon]

Just now, Mason89 said:

They say absolutely nothing about drugs. 

It absolutely does. What else are they then? Go fast boats in the middle of the night with no lights on are not asylum seekers or fishermen.

[Mason89]

14 minutes ago, OrlandoDon said:

It absolutely does. What else are they then? Go fast boats in the middle of the night with no lights on are not asylum seekers or fishermen.

You could always stop and ask them? 
 

If you think it’s ok for the US armed forces to randomly blow small boats out of Venezuelas waters, then I think you’ve been stuck out there too long 

 

[Slim]

44 minutes ago, OrlandoDon said:

We can only ‘believe’ what we see/read, but it’s the satellite images plus the type of boats used, the size and speed say a lot.

The boats they are blowing up have a range of around 50 miles at full speed and are being blown up 1500 miles from the US coast line. THAT says a lot.

If the genuine concern is drug cartels then why give a pardon to Juan Orlando Hernandez (no relation I’m sure) who was literally trafficking drugs (400 tonnes of cocaine) to the US?

[OrlandoDon]

17 minutes ago, Mason89 said:

You could always stop and ask them? 
 

If you think it’s ok for the US armed forces to randomly blow small boats out of Venezuelas waters, then I think you’ve been stuck out there too long 

 

Perhaps. I just don’t subscribe to things I used to believe in. Don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time. intel shows armed drug dealers bringing drugs to the US. You want us to pull them over. I’d rather lose drug dealers and protect the lives of our agents, and protect our citizens from drugs.

[Mason89]

Just now, OrlandoDon said:

Perhaps. I just don’t subscribe to things I used to believe in. Don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time. intel shows armed drug dealers bringing drugs to the US. You want us to pull them over. I’d rather lose drug dealers and protect the lives of our agents, and protect our citizens from drugs.

You can’t make a omelette without breaking a few eggs, eh? Who cares that innocent people might be getting blown up, there might be drug dealers too.

The nonce in chief pardons the folk bringing drugs into the US, so clearly he doesn’t give a monkeys. 
 

[OrlandoDon]

2 minutes ago, Mason89 said:

You can’t make a omelette without breaking a few eggs, eh? Who cares that innocent people might be getting blown up, there might be drug dealers too.

The nonce in chief pardons the folk bringing drugs into the US, so clearly he doesn’t give a monkeys. 
 

That’s where we differ. I don’t believe, and intel supports, these are not innocent people. Pulling them over to chat doesn’t benefit innocent people.

you are correct, every single government is corrupt, you pick and chose your battles.

we can agree to disagree, gearing up for the game!

[Mason89]

Pretty sure that’s piracy but you’re right COYR 

[RicoS321]

1 hour ago, OrlandoDon said:

Greenland is directly between Russia and the US

No it isn't. Well, not according to the maps our governments let us see. Perhaps you have different ones.