SCOTTISH football last night stood on the brink of revolution amid fears more than one SPL club is going to the wall.

 

Record Sport understands a move towards the restructuring of the SPL will start as soon as this season's championship and relegation issues have been decided.

 

Concerned chairmen have been holding emergency talks in secret for weeks. Matters are now coming to a head in advance of financial figures being released which will show the catastrophe that's on the way unless the Top Twelve is expanded into an 18-team league.

 

SPL chairmen met at Hampden yesterday as calls mounted for a change of direction and even the SPL chief executive Neil Doncaster has now publicly admitted the split isn't the answer to falling crowds and declining standards.

 

One concerned club spokesman said: "There are balance-sheet figures about to come out which are appalling.

 

"Clubs will go to the wall. unless there's change across the board, and soon.

 

"We can't go on paying salaries that the clubs just can't afford. Income must become relative to clubs' expenditure.

 

"Chairmen have been talking to each other in the background but it would be inappropriate to speak out before the major issues have been settled.

 

"Scottish football needs restructuring because the game is the big picture.

 

"If you sort out the product then the financial picture gets better in time.

 

"It might be sore to begin with, and income might drop by as much as 30 per cent, but if we don't take steps to find our true level then there will be serious consequences."

 

Rangers manager Walter Smith has already stated his preference for an 18-team Premier League, reducing the number of fixtures to 34.

 

That would take away the complaint that the same teams are meeting each other too many times during the season.

 

Support for that change to the current system was growing last night .

 

Formal moves to alter the structure of the SPL and redraw the remainder of the clubs in the Scottish Football League are now only a matter of weeks away.

 

Taken from the Daily Retard so may be utter bollocks, but I certainly hope not.

I don't want the 10 team league.  That is all.

Poll added to this thread.

16 is my preference. I don't think we have 18 capable teams.

To me it seems the ones at the top want to keep all the money and then let the rest fight for scraps. Personally I would rather see a bigger league and the wealth spread across more teams. Each team might get slightly less money but the competition will be better which might just increase gates.

 

Thats just it though, it isn't going to be slightly less and the competition won't mean very much when there poor quality fitba on show, leaving aside the meaningless matches from January onwards. I have not got a clue what the SPL clubs are going to do to resolve this, I just agree with Milne and the guys on here who reckon it is mental to lose even more money in the short term as no-one has been able to demonstrate any financially viable alternative to the 10 or 12 team league, which few of us genuinely have any affection for.

 

Money is tight and the quality of the game is getting close to bottoming out, attendances will drop and that is pretty much inevitable. The collapse of Setanta began the SPL's decline but I suspect it would have been in bother anyway given the more general financial situation.

 

If the game is well supported, of a decent quality and doing well in Europe it won't matter a fuck how many teams are in the top division, the bottom divisions, whether there's a regional component to the League Cup, any of that.

I don't want the 10 team league.  That is all.

 

Fans have been complaining about teams playing each other to much with the current set up

The sceptical amongst us might think this is to guarantee a certain amount of old firm games for sky tv and indeed the bigot brothers income.

 

Anyway I voted for 16

guarantee a certain amount of old firm games for sky tv and indeed the bigot brothers income.

 

and ours.

If you are losing money you cant keep reducing the size of the league to play each other more.

what will it be in 5 years a 4 team league that plays each other 12 times

what we need to do is start living within our means

If you are losing money you cant keep reducing the size of the league to play each other more.

what will it be in 5 years a 4 team league that plays each other 12 times

what we need to do is start living within our means

 

Thanks for that. I'm certain that will be uppermost in the thoughts of the SPL chairmen.

Thanks for that. I'm certain that will be uppermost in the thoughts of the SPL chairmen.

 

I am sure it wont

i'm of the opinion that as Scottish football is fucked anyway, knock it down and build it again, don't paper over the cracks as you'll just have the same problems.

 

I think we would all be for that idea to be honest. The point is that chairmen won't vote to decrease revenue when they are on the brink of failure as it stands.

 

Boredom and tedium is likely to increase in a ten team set up and over time revenues will probably drop as a result. However, a 16 team set up will mean definite drops in revenue. It's a crucial difference between probably and definitely.

http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/sport/Huge-majority-of-fans-oppose.6677232.jp

 

AN OVERWHELMING 88 per cent of football fans oppose the proposed reduction of the premier league to ten teams, with a staggering 92.5 per cent angry that supporters have not been adequately consulted on the revamp.

 

With the 12 SPL clubs due to meet this week to vote on the idea of forming two top leagues of ten in a bid to cut the financial gap between the elite sides and most ambitious clubs in the current First Division, fans, managers and players are disgruntled that, once again, their views have not been taken into consideration, with all three groups vehemently opposed to the structure which is currently favoured by the club chairmen.

 

More than three quarters of nearly 5,000 fans who took part in an online survey, commissioned by Supporters Direct Scotland from 17-22 December, opted for a league of either 16 or 18 teams, with the strength of opinion pretty consistent between those who support the current Scottish Premier League sides and those who back teams in the Scottish Football League.

 

"It is critical that the paying fan's voice is heard in the current debate," said Supporters Direct Scotland development manager James Proctor.

 

"These results show that while supporters welcome some of the changes proposed - play-offs between the top two leagues, a winter break and an earlier start to the season - the clear message from this survey is that supporters want leagues to be made larger, not smaller, and that they want to be consulted about the decisions that affect the future of football in Scotland.

 

"While the issue of league reconstruction is uppermost in people's minds, we should remember that Henry McLeish's report clearly called for greater involvement of fans in the national organisation and for fans to be represented in the important decisions in Scottish football.

 

"The results of the fans' survey back these recommendations and we look forward to working with the football authorities to ensure they are achieved."

 

Adding credence to the fans' stance are the chairman of the Scottish League Managers' Association, Alex Smith, and his counterpart at the Professional Footballers' Association Scotland, Jack Ross.

 

They claimed that their members are also unhappy at both the proposed size of the top flight and the lack of dialogue, and they say they would support moves for a working group which would include representatives from all areas of the game, including the supporters.

 

The survey was promoted via online forums, club websites and various media outlets.

 

In all there were 4,931 respondents and the results were independently analysed to ensure the validity of the data.

 

The SPL refused to comment on the findings of the survey.

 

I'd have 16 teams with the loss in revenue made up from league cup group stages as well as a pre (or early)-season tourny involving the previous season's top 8 in a straight, unseeded knock-out competition. There should be incentive for clubs to earn money rather than have it guaranteed.

 

It's the responsibility of the people running the league to do better at attracting sponsorship to avert financial losses. If they either do nothing, or do what they acknowledge is the least acceptable idea for the fans, they'll drive more fans away and clubs like ours will lose money anyway.

 

Talking about meaningless games is sheer apathy. If people won't turn up to give the club money just because they WANT to donate without needing essentially bribed to head along, then there's no hope no matter what the structure is.

 

Thanks for that. I'm certain that will be uppermost in the thoughts of the SPL chairmen.

 

No but it seems to be in the thought of the fans who know what they are talking about.

 

AN OVERWHELMING 88 per cent of football fans oppose the proposed reduction of the premier league to ten teams, with a staggering 92.5 per cent angry that supporters have not been adequately consulted on the revamp.

 

With the 12 SPL clubs due to meet this week to vote on the idea of forming two top leagues of ten in a bid to cut the financial gap between the elite sides and most ambitious clubs in the current First Division, fans, managers and players are disgruntled that, once again, their views have not been taken into consideration, with all three groups vehemently opposed to the structure which is currently favoured by the club chairmen.

 

More than three quarters of nearly 5,000 fans who took part in an online survey, commissioned by Supporters Direct Scotland from 17-22 December, opted for a league of either 16 or 18 teams, with the strength of opinion pretty consistent between those who support the current Scottish Premier League sides and those who back teams in the Scottish Football League.

 

"It is critical that the paying fan's voice is heard in the current debate," said Supporters Direct Scotland development manager James Proctor.

 

"These results show that while supporters welcome some of the changes proposed - play-offs between the top two leagues, a winter break and an earlier start to the season - the clear message from this survey is that supporters want leagues to be made larger, not smaller, and that they want to be consulted about the decisions that affect the future of football in Scotland.

 

"While the issue of league reconstruction is uppermost in people's minds, we should remember that Henry McLeish's report clearly called for greater involvement of fans in the national organisation and for fans to be represented in the important decisions in Scottish football.

 

"The results of the fans' survey back these recommendations and we look forward to working with the football authorities to ensure they are achieved."

 

Adding credence to the fans' stance are the chairman of the Scottish League Managers' Association, Alex Smith, and his counterpart at the Professional Footballers' Association Scotland, Jack Ross.

 

They claimed that their members are also unhappy at both the proposed size of the top flight and the lack of dialogue, and they say they would support moves for a working group which would include representatives from all areas of the game, including the supporters.

 

The survey was promoted via online forums, club websites and various media outlets.

 

In all there were 4,931 respondents and the results were independently analysed to ensure the validity of the data.

 

The SPL refused to comment on the findings of the survey.

I'd have 16 teams with the loss in revenue made up from league cup group stages as well as a pre (or early)-season tourny involving the previous season's top 8 in a straight, unseeded knock-out competition. There should be incentive for clubs to earn money rather than have it guaranteed.

 

It's the responsibility of the people running the league to do better at attracting sponsorship to avert financial losses. If they either do nothing, or do what they acknowledge is the least acceptable idea for the fans, they'll drive more fans away and clubs like ours will lose money anyway.

 

Talking about meaningless games is sheer apathy. If people won't turn up to give the club money just because they WANT to donate without needing essentially bribed to head along, then there's no hope no matter what the structure is.

 

Good post.  Completely agree.

Are the SPL going to embrace a bunker type mentality and push this through regardless?  A "We know best as we wear the blazers" menatlaity? Cuz if so I think the Scottish game is properly fucked. If these jokers ignore the people who they are complaining about not turning up inb greater numbers then the only thing left to improve the Scottish game in the long term i to get rid if the SPL.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/9334707.stm - Good effort by the guys in the photo

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/9334707.stm - Good effort by the guys in the photo

 

Cheers 

Surely the "blazers" can't be that thick (or drunk), or too young to remember the abortion of 76 onward with 10 teams?

 

Or do they think "we", the supporters, are?

Surely the "blazers" can't be that thick (or drunk), or too young to remember the abortion of 76 onward with 10 teams?

Or do they think "we", the supporters, are?

 

Of course they do, why the hell would they suddenly mistake the football fans to have intelligence? The people that run the Scottish game are completely devoid of logical thought.

Surely the "blazers" can't be that thick (or drunk), or too young to remember the abortion of 76 onward with 10 teams?

 

Or do they think "we", the supporters, are?

 

Going by a few of the posts here they would be forgiven for thinking that way.

 

I'd be surprised if anyone, SPL chairmen included, thinks that a top 10 is any kind of long term and lasting solution to how many teams should be in the league. At a time when money is desperately short it does seem silly to cut the money coming in.

STEWART Milne was today expecting to get the backing needed to reshape the SPL for the future.

 

The top 12 clubs were meeting at Hampden to discuss the various proposals put forward for a revamp to the set-up, which will be put in place for the start of season 2012-13.

 

Aberdeen FC chairman Stewart Milne knows his favoured option – a move to two Scottish Premier Leagues of 10 – goes against the wishes of many fans and pundits who are calling for the top flight to be expanded to as many as 16 teams.

 

 

Read more: http://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/Article.aspx/2072671#ixzz1A47cZVJ2

Good to see they're listening to the fans 

 

 

Well if it goes through I will save some cash and watch my local team instead.

personal opinion though but my 2 sons are as yet undecided.

quote from Doncaster, "There was a consensus that we need change. We have a plan A but no plan B." 

 

Why do we have an SPL board at all? Who appointed them and other than a few chairmen, who do they actually represent?

 

Mostly rhetorical questions sadly.

 

It does seem they want to drive as many fans away from Scottish football as possible.

Surely the "blazers" can't be that thick (or drunk), or too young to remember the abortion of 76 onward with 10 teams?

 

Or do they think "we", the supporters, are?

 

it was still hailed as a success though for the first 10-15 years having 4 separate teams winning the title (could have been 5 if one of the teams didn't bottle it on the last day).  The whole reason was to increase the quality by getting rid of the 6 lowest diddy teams so that the old-firm wouldn't have it so easy.  However the last 15 years has seen it revert back to same two horse race due to the increased finances that Champions league football brought, along with them getting the lion's share of any TV money.

 

16 teams will only make the 3rd place - 16th place more competitive.  All it does for me is increase the number of games that I wouldn't want to go and see.  Don't know what the ideal solution would be, maybe the old-firm fucking off to England leaving the rest of us with a competitive league until someone else starts to dominate