Apologies if posted elsewhere:

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/jul/02/scottish-premier-league-sky-espn

 

The Scottish Premier League is seriously considering a combined broadcasting tender from Sky and ESPN as it seeks to fill the void created by Setanta's collapse before the new season begins.

 

Sky was installed as the favourite to replace Setanta as the SPL's main broadcaster after the latter company's demise last month. ESPN swiftly emerged as the only legitimate competition as it seeks to create a European rights portfolio — and fill air space — but it now seems the pair could combine to launch a five-year package which would match Setanta's 60 live games per season.

 

Although any such contract would not equal the £31m per season which Setanta had been due to pay the SPL for four years from 2011, it is understood the five-year contract could be worth as much as £100m. That would give the league more than the £12m it was due for next season under an existing deal with Setanta but less than expected in the four seasons after.

 

The main complexities would relate to which channel showed more games and which supplied the majority of the funding. Initial suggestions are that, because of Sky's present position of broadcasting 450 live games per season, it would seek a lower number of matches than ESPN due to scheduling constraints. Yet Sky could still supply at least half or more of the finance in return for guaranteed coverage of the SPL's four flagship fixtures, the Old Firm encounters.

 

Sky and ESPN have emerged as natural bedfellows having forged behind-the-scenes production agreements for the English Premier League. Sky hardware and crews will be responsible for the Disney-backed channel's upcoming and debut live coverage of England's top flight.

 

No party has been willing to comment on proceedings in Scotland at this stage due to commercial sensitivity, with the SPL only admitting that "external discussions are ongoing".

Sky and ESPN think the SPL is worth 13million per season

Old firm think its worth 12.5million per season

 

well bugger me if thats a no brainer. Are they actually of the opinion that 2 years down the line sky will come crawling back pleading with the top 12 to accept a £100million + deal.  

 

Am I to understand that the glasgow bastards would rather fork out 12.5million instead of accepting 1million  just so they could show their own matches at times that they think are suitable? Are advertising revenues really that good these days?

 

I think they'd buy the rights to the matches then sell them on to another company.  The 12.5 million would be offered between 10 clubs rather than 13m between 12 with them taking the lions share. That's what i presume, anyway.

The SPL must agree on an 8:4 majority before any TV agreement is reached. But in saying that, the SPL contains wankers like Motherwell, Hamilton, Hearts, Kilmarnock and St Mirren who bend over for the Old Firm's demands whenever requested anyway. If Aberdeen, Utd, Hibs and Falkirk can drum up support from St Johnstone, then that scuppers the ratio.

Willie Miller in today's P&J:

 

While the Dons struggle to finance new arrivals, Aberdeen director of football Willie Miller is ready to get on board with the Old Firm's plans to go it alone on a new television deal, if it is to benefit the entire SPL.

 

Miller also urged caution from the league about the offer from prospective broadcasters ESPN and Sky – much smaller than the original offer from doomed broadcaster Setanta – as acceptance could inflict further damage on Scotland's already fragile game.

 

Sky and ESPN have offered the SPL £65million over five years, around half the amount in the deal agreed with Setanta. But Celtic and Rangers are reported to be considering buying the rights themselves and then selling them on to a broadcaster.

 

The matter is not on the agenda for the SPL's annual meeting at Hampden tomorrow, but will be discussed by the 12 clubs.

 

Gothenburg Great Miller, who joined up with the Dons playing squad and management at their Austria training camp on Monday evening, said: “I do not know a lot about the Old Firm's plans yet. I don’t think they will just look out for themselves. I think everyone is looking for the best deal for Scottish football.

 

“Obviously they are not happy with the current situation – no one in Scottish football is. If they think they can find a way to help Scottish football, then great.

 

“Whatever we end up with, we are going to have to cope. It is easier said than done when you have expectations at the club and a new management team who are looking to bring players in.

 

“What ESPN or Sky have to understand is if the deal is a lot lower, it is going to effect the product they are going to show. From the broadcasters’ point of view it does not make sense to screw Scottish football into the ground by making it difficult to bring in the types of players who will bring in big crowds.

 

“You just hope they look at that and they come up with a realistic deal. The new deal will effect everyone's budget and the clubs will have to cut their cloth accordingly.

 

“It is a trying time for Scottish football with the television deal up in the air. Most clubs factored the old deal into their budgets.â€

If the OF want to get in on the TV right money, why don't we get on their side and try and get some of the big cash they're hoping for too?

If the OF want to get in on the TV right money, why don't we get on their side and try and get some of the big cash they're hoping for too?

 

If it was owned by the infirm would any other fans actually buy a subscription? I cant see if this is the way they want to go not to do it under the umbrella of the SPL.

If it was owned by the infirm would any other fans actually buy a subscription? I cant see if this is the way they want to go not to do it under the umbrella of the SPL.

 

Can't see that being an issue for the OF as I can't imagine too many fans of other clubs were buying it under Setanta (i got mine for free).  It's the OF fans buying it where the money is.

This in my opinion is a real bad move for all other teams except the old firm.

Remember when they wanted money for selling tickets at other grounds (what happened to this btw did the other teams cave in or what)

They would find a way to take everything and give the other clubs zero or next to zero..

Remember what is said about TV controlling the game therefore who controls the TV controls the game..

Call this selfish if you like but i would rather see us skint than be controlled by these bastards

OLD FIRM GTF

 

[EDIT] It would mean the old firm getting to pick when games are played[edit]

 

This in my opinion is a real bad move for all other teams except the old firm.

Remember when they wanted money for selling tickets at other grounds (what happened to this btw did the other teams cave in or what)

They would find a way to take everything and give the other clubs zero or next to zero..

Remember what is said about TV controlling the game therefore who controls the TV controls the game..

Call this selfish if you like but i would rather see us skint than be controlled by these bastards

OLD FIRM GTF

 

[EDIT] It would mean the old firm getting to pick when games are played[edit]

 

 

How would it? Do you really think the OF are going to set up their own TV station and all of a sudden know how to operate one?  They will sell the rights to a real broadcaster, who will then have discussions with the SPL.  clubs then have to agree when the matches are played.

How would it? Do you really think the OF are going to set up their own TV station and all of a sudden know how to operate one?  They will sell the rights to a real broadcaster, who will then have discussions with the SPL.  clubs then have to agree when the matches are played.

 

I would like to see the terms and conditions of their proposal because they could easly get someone to operate one with them having overall control..

They already have Rangers and Celtic TV up and running and i for one don't trust a thing they say..

I would like to see the terms and conditions of their proposal because they could easly get someone to operate one with them having overall control..

They already have Rangers and Celtic TV up and running and i for one don't trust a thing they say..

 

Huns TV and Tic TV died along with Setanta. They were Setanta channels, they were not run in-house at Ibrox and Parkhead.

Im I correct in thinking this

 

Old firm each fork out 1.25million to each non old firm spl team

 

they then go and sell the rights to sky and ESPN for say 40million (who the fuck else is going to buy it?). They then collect 20million each (7.5million profit) because it was their product to sell in the first place. Im willing to my share in Padre that if us, the arabs and co decide hun tv is the way forward the agreement we have to sign will contain the clause - for this 2.5million you give us the right to decide when we play matches against you even if it totally shafts your fans.

 

There in lies the tv equivalent of 'give us money to sell tickets for your games'

 

Or am I way wde of the mark?

Huns TV and Tic TV died along with Setanta. They were Setanta channels, they were not run in-house at Ibrox and Parkhead.

 

ok my mistake but i still think all the other clubs will end up shafted

Im I correct in thinking this

 

Old firm each fork out 1.25million to each non old firm spl team

 

they then go and sell the rights to sky and ESPN for say 40million (who the fuck else is going to buy it?). They then collect 20million each (7.5million profit) because it was their product to sell in the first place. Im willing to my share in Padre that if us, the arabs and co decide hun tv is the way forward the agreement we have to sign will contain the clause - for this 2.5million you give us the right to decide when we play matches against you even if it totally shafts your fans.

 

There in lies the tv equivalent of 'give us money to sell tickets for your games'

 

Or am I way wde of the mark?

 

I have no idea what you're trying to say in that first part in bold.

 

The second part... think of it this way. ESPN (should they buy the rights) also have rights to the EPL so essentially our games have to fit round theirs. i.e Saturday lunchtime or Sunday Lunchtime being the most likely slots due to the EPL evening games on both days.  When ESPN buy the rights, are they really going to agree to sign over their scheduling to the OF when they've spent considerably more on purchasing the rights to the EPL?  I wouldn't have thought so.  

 

You have to remember that if the OF buy the rights, they will do so from the League itself, and frankly, if they are allowed to buy them and dictate (or attempt to) when the matches are, then the league and all those who voted for it deserve all they get.  Primarily the decision when games are falls with the league and the clubs, and TV does it's best to fit round that, why people think it's the other way about baffles me (think of matches being moved at fairly short notice because of matches in Europe and still being shown on TV).  Celtic and Rangers prime concern when doing this is to make money.  They would be daft not to contemplate that if they attempt to play hardball with the others over match times it could come back to seriously bite them in the bum.  That's not to say it won't happen, but they would be extremely daft to do so.

The EPL packages that ESPN bought for this season are only for matches played at 530pm on a saturday and 8pm on a monday.

As of next season they lose one of those packages which as far as I see it leaves sundays free for SPL coverage. Potentially even a midweek game or 2.

 

So where is the scheduling conflict?

How would it? Do you really think the OF are going to set up their own TV station and all of a sudden know how to operate one?  They will sell the rights to a real broadcaster, who will then have discussions with the SPL.  clubs then have to agree when the matches are played.

 

Surely the broadcaster would have to speak to the rights owners i.e. the old firm and not the SPL.

The EPL packages that ESPN bought for this season are only for matches played at 530pm on a saturday and 8pm on a monday.

As of next season they lose one of those packages which as far as I see it leaves sundays free for SPL coverage. Potentially even a midweek game or 2.

 

So where is the scheduling conflict?

 

Even better then. They have the choice of Saturday lunchtime or all day Sunday.  I don't see what the problem is with that.  But some people just want to act all hard done to when nothing has happened yet just because its the scumbags involved.

 

Surely the broadcaster would have to speak to the rights owners i.e. the old firm and not the SPL.

 

I have no idea what you're trying to say in that first part in bold.

 

The second part... think of it this way. ESPN (should they buy the rights) also have rights to the EPL so essentially our games have to fit round theirs. i.e Saturday lunchtime or Sunday Lunchtime being the most likely slots due to the EPL evening games on both days.  When ESPN buy the rights, are they really going to agree to sign over their scheduling to the OF when they've spent considerably more on purchasing the rights to the EPL?  I wouldn't have thought so. 

 

You have to remember that if the OF buy the rights, they will do so from the League itself, and frankly, if they are allowed to buy them and dictate (or attempt to) when the matches are, then the league and all those who voted for it deserve all they get.  Primarily the decision when games are falls with the league and the clubs, and TV does it's best to fit round that, why people think it's the other way about baffles me (think of matches being moved at fairly short notice because of matches in Europe and still being shown on TV).  Celtic and Rangers prime concern when doing this is to make money.  They would be daft not to contemplate that if they attempt to play hardball with the others over match times it could come back to seriously bite them in the bum.  That's not to say it won't happen, but they would be extremely daft to do so.

 

Not that hard to have a prior agreement in place when the rights are first sold, is it?

Breaking news: SPL clubs agree £65million deal with Sky and ESPN to screen 60 live matches each season until 2011-12

 

From scotsmans twitter

On BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/8152874.stm

Not great but better than the infirm TV idea.

Seems good that it's only for three seasons initially. Presumably gives us the chance to think about renegotiating after 2011/12, or look for a new broadcaster.

Not great but better than the infirm TV idea.

 

Agree, Mizer.

 

Seems good that it's only for three seasons initially. Presumably gives us the chance to think about renegotiating after 2011/12, or look for a new broadcaster.

 

Think they're going to look at SPL TV after that.

ok so we get the same money we were always going to get next season as setantas higher contract was not due to start until the season after the upcoming one.  so 2 years with less money. Its by no means great, but at least they were sharp enough to get this opt out clause for the last two years if required. At end of day sky and espn are not going bust so its guaranteed. .

 

Plus from a purely selfish point of view its good for us, the viewers. 9 pound a month for spl, epl and more than likely pga tour is decent enough for this new espn channel.all old firm games on sky sports apparantely. .

 

Games will be played sat lunchtime, sunday afternoon and monday nights.

Ray Stubbs has joined ESPN.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/front_page/8156041.stm

 

Plus from a purely selfish point of view its good for us, the viewers. 9 pound a month for spl, epl and more than likely pga tour is decent enough for this new espn channel.all old firm games on sky sports apparantely. .

 

Games will be played sat lunchtime, sunday afternoon and monday nights.

 

The problem is that it ain't £9 a month for SPL football, if you currently have no Sports subscription with Sky then it's going to cost you £11 to get access to Sky's 30 games and then £9 for the ESPN's games......so when it was Setanta you paid £12.99 a month to see 60 SPL games and for next season it'll cost you £20 a month to see those 60 SPL games 

 

I can see a lot of Sunday 11.30 kick-offs this season so as not to upset Sky's 2 Sunday EPL games 

ESPN free to Virgin Media XL customers

 

http://pressoffice.virginmedia.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=205406&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1313434&highlight=