Dons youth

[THFN1983]

5 minutes ago, RicoS321 said:

I was responding in context to Bavidge. When he signed his three year deal with us, Lewis Pirie (the striker with more potential) signed for Leeds. What happens when they go down there and languish on their B team bench, I guess is irrelevant. Again, we're specifically speaking about strikers, and there aren't many who came through the youth teams playing in the SPFL (our very own Bruce Anderson of course). If they show any potential in that position, they get snapped up. Even Wilson at Hearts, which is a strange one. Bowie went to Fulham from Raith. The Huns and Tims have both lost strikers in recent times. A bit like goalkeepers, it's a difficult position to break through in. 

Could it be argued that players coming through the youth system have watched player after player get rejected by AFC or not get an honest opportunity to develop in the first team squad and as such when a team from down south comes calling then they jump at the chance?

You only have to look at the amount of absolute dross that we have signed over the years, and lets be clear that there have been some truly horrific players that we've spent a lot of money on, but yet we are unwilling to give our own developing talent a fair chance to really assess whether they'll make it or not. It's not like we've been playing exceptionally well and have found it difficult to slot youth in to a winning side!

Another way to look at things is McKenna, Ramsey, Lobban were so far out of the picture until injuries/suspensions happened and suddenly they were thrust into the starting 11 and lo and behold they stood out as being real players, players that the coaching staff basically ignored.

Another example of a young player leaving us early would be Fletcher Boyd. He came in at the end of a season, played really well, scored a few goals and we all saw incredible potential but the very next season he was out of the picture, not getting any first team action and it was no wonder that he decided to go down south.

[RicoS321]

1 hour ago, THFN1983 said:

Could it be argued that players coming through the youth system have watched player after player get rejected by AFC or not get an honest opportunity to develop in the first team squad and as such when a team from down south comes calling then they jump at the chance?

You only have to look at the amount of absolute dross that we have signed over the years, and lets be clear that there have been some truly horrific players that we've spent a lot of money on, but yet we are unwilling to give our own developing talent a fair chance to really assess whether they'll make it or not. It's not like we've been playing exceptionally well and have found it difficult to slot youth in to a winning side!

Another way to look at things is McKenna, Ramsey, Lobban were so far out of the picture until injuries/suspensions happened and suddenly they were thrust into the starting 11 and lo and behold they stood out as being real players, players that the coaching staff basically ignored.

Another example of a young player leaving us early would be Fletcher Boyd. He came in at the end of a season, played really well, scored a few goals and we all saw incredible potential but the very next season he was out of the picture, not getting any first team action and it was no wonder that he decided to go down south.

We seem to be talking about different things. I thought we were speaking about strikers. I don't disagree that we have been poor in our transitioning of youth to first team. Personally, I think the club should go with quotas, and make it public so that fans can't complain when a youngster who possibly isn't up to it is getting minutes. 

[THFN1983]

8 minutes ago, RicoS321 said:

We seem to be talking about different things. I thought we were speaking about strikers. I don't disagree that we have been poor in our transitioning of youth to first team. Personally, I think the club should go with quotas, and make it public so that fans can't complain when a youngster who possibly isn't up to it is getting minutes. 

The origin was our complete lack of forwards coming through and making an impact but it has evolved into the a possible reason why youth players feel the need to chase the dream down south due to your response being what it was.

We just seem to have zero faith in players that have been with us since kids but are willing to spend way over the odds for imports that the average supporter can see from day one aren't anywhere near the level required.

[Jute]

Daily Record reporting that club to open talks with Findlay Marshall about extending his contract. 

[wee toon red]

1 hour ago, THFN1983 said:

The origin was our complete lack of forwards coming through and making an impact but it has evolved into the a possible reason why youth players feel the need to chase the dream down south due to your response being what it was.

We just seem to have zero faith in players that have been with us since kids but are willing to spend way over the odds for imports that the average supporter can see from day one aren't anywhere near the level required.

Spin it another way: which of our youths have gone on to prove us wrong in not giving them a chance or letting them go?

You’ve got Anderson at Killie and Ethan Ross at Falkirk, neither of whom would excite the support if we signed them now.

The bigger question might be why we’re not producing many youth players of note - which is where English academies poaching players comes in - or, indeed, if we’ve done very well to have had Fraser, McKenna and Ramsay move on to “bigger” things and making us money.

[Kowalski]

For Bavidge. See Shankland. 

[wee toon red]

Just now, Kowalski said:

For Bavidge. See Shankland. 

Shit attitude and needs the boot up the arse of being let go to have a chance of sorting himself out?

[RicoS321]

Just now, Kowalski said:

For Bavidge. See Shankland. 

I don't think so. Shankland was better before we signed him. He also had the physique that had a chance of making it. Bavidge would be better compared to Anderson.

[THFN1983]

4 minutes ago, wee toon red said:

Spin it another way: which of our youths have gone on to prove us wrong in not giving them a chance or letting them go?

You’ve got Anderson at Killie and Ethan Ross at Falkirk, neither of whom would excite the support if we signed them now.

The bigger question might be why we’re not producing many youth players of note - which is where English academies poaching players comes in - or, indeed, if we’ve done very well to have had Fraser, McKenna and Ramsay move on to “bigger” things and making us money.

It's true that many youths won't go on to make it as a serious professional and we can't always expect to have a steady stream coming in to our first 11 but I genuinely feel that despite all the talk by Dave and the coaches, we have performed even worse than the men's first team currently and that takes some doing.

That being said, you never know how good a player is until they get an opportunity and I'm sure there has been countless players that we've let go that have been better than Ambrose, Yengi etc. 

With regards to not a lot of players kicking on after departing us, well that doesn't always mean they weren't good enough as we have signed players that have been decent in other clubs but when they get to us they have been terrible. Sometimes it's an environment issue, a behaviour issue, being away from home, injuries but not always because they weren't up to scratch.

 

[RicoS321]

36 minutes ago, THFN1983 said:

It's true that many youths won't go on to make it as a serious professional and we can't always expect to have a steady stream coming in to our first 11 but I genuinely feel that despite all the talk by Dave and the coaches, we have performed even worse than the men's first team currently and that takes some doing.

That being said, you never know how good a player is until they get an opportunity and I'm sure there has been countless players that we've let go that have been better than Ambrose, Yengi etc. 

With regards to not a lot of players kicking on after departing us, well that doesn't always mean they weren't good enough as we have signed players that have been decent in other clubs but when they get to us they have been terrible. Sometimes it's an environment issue, a behaviour issue, being away from home, injuries but not always because they weren't up to scratch.

 

Of course there will have been youth players that are better than Ambrose or Yengi, but they can be better than our shitest signings without being good enough still. The thing about youth players is that we know whether they are good enough or not (generally speaking), whereas players we've signed are comparatively unknown. Being better than the shite isn't a reason to play youth players, because they might have deficiencies in physical areas, whilst also being not good enough. 

I'm not totally sure what the benchmark of a successful youth development would be. One player per season? That would mean that you should have two or three minimum that have  come through the youth system in the team. We have Milne and Lobban. Probably one short. 

[wee toon red]

1 hour ago, RicoS321 said:

Of course there will have been youth players that are better than Ambrose or Yengi, but they can be better than our shitest signings without being good enough still. The thing about youth players is that we know whether they are good enough or not (generally speaking), whereas players we've signed are comparatively unknown. Being better than the shite isn't a reason to play youth players, because they might have deficiencies in physical areas, whilst also being not good enough. 

I'm not totally sure what the benchmark of a successful youth development would be. One player per season? That would mean that you should have two or three minimum that have  come through the youth system in the team. We have Milne and Lobban. Probably one short. 

If you go with three as a minimum, then you’ve got Milne and Lobban as you say, who each still have plenty to prove. Ryan Duncan was given a reasonable number of chances but doesn’t seem to have “it”. Then there’s those who fucked off for a better offer like Boyd and a couple of others. There’s also the out on loan crew, out of whom it sounds like Marshall might have a chance. That’s not a great return but similarly it isn’t nothing and suggests we do try to give out young guys a chance.

At the risk of repeating myself, it isn’t necessarily the lack of chances for our own youth that’s worrying me, it’s why our own youth aren’t good enough. Look at the Scotland youth squads and we don’t feature anything like as strongly as I think a club of our size should strive to. If they’re at Aberdeen and not good enough for Scotland at age group level then that’s a real concern.

Edited 12 hours ago by wee toon red

[RicoS321]

15 minutes ago, wee toon red said:

If you go with three as a minimum, then you’ve got Milne and Lobban as you say, who each still have plenty to prove. Ryan Duncan was given a reasonable number of chances but doesn’t seem to have “it”. Then there’s those who fucked off for a better offer like Boyd and a couple of others. There’s also the out on loan crew, out of whom it sounds like Marshall might have a chance. That’s not a great return but similarly it isn’t nothing and suggests we do try to give out young guys a chance.

At the risk of repeating myself, it isn’t necessarily the lack of chances for our own youth that’s worrying me, it’s why our own youth aren’t good enough. Look at the Scotland youth squads and we don’t feature anything like as strongly as I think a club of our size should strive to. If they’re at Aberdeen and not good enough for Scotland at age group level then that’s a real concern.

Does any club feature strongly for Scotland? Looking at the last u19s for example, half the players are in England and the rest belong to different clubs. Boyd is in it, as our representative in that regard. I can't find much on the u17s, I'm guessing that Masson and Carrol would be involved, with both at one point rumoured to be off down south too. It seems reasonable to say that we should be well represented, but I don't think anyone is, which suggests that young players are moving around a lot more.

[Blow.Up.Sheep]

Whatever way you want to look at, can't help but feel sorry for Bavidge, I am nae saying he is our answer to the lack of goals, I am nae saying he is brillaint but he is at least on a par (probably even a better option) than the boy Lazetic who is getting a far bigger chunk of dosh than Bavidge would be on and yet for certain 100% we would get a better return out of Bavidge than we get out of Lazetic.

Young Alfie is bound to be completely baffled by that, as I know I am and am probably not alone with this way of thinking  

[TheDonbytheDee]

10 hours ago, Kowalski said:

For Bavidge. See Shankland. 

I don't think Alfie has a comparable forehead though.

[TheDonbytheDee]

We told Marshall to find a new club last summer.

Will be interesting to see if he signs this supposed new deal on offer with us, or if he decides his future will be elsewhere. 

If he does sign up again, we have to give him a chance, but I do suspect the new deal, might just be to secure us better compensation, if he goes elsewhere.

Edited 4 hours ago by TheDonbytheDee

[blinlemon]

The Yout’ - aka the Development Sqaad - will be playing the Broch of Fraserburgh at Bellslea Park tomorrow night in the Aberdeenshire Shield final, for those with weak stomachs reluctant to watch the Scottish Cup tie at Pittodrie. 

[Bukta Bertie]

5 minutes ago, blinlemon said:

The Yout’ - aka the Development Sqaad - will be playing the Broch of Fraserburgh at Bellslea Park tomorrow night in the Aberdeenshire Shield final, for those with weak stomachs reluctant to watch the Scottish Cup tie at Pittodrie. 

It may well have been down mostly to the bods at Fraserburgh but surely it's a ridiculous decision to play it at the same time as our Scottish Cup tie. It's a further devaluation of a trophy we really should be taking more seriously.

[blinlemon]

13 minutes ago, TheDonbytheDee said:

We told Marshall to find a new club last summer.

Will be interesting to see if he signs this supposed new deal on offer with us, or if he decides his future will be elsewhere. 

If he does sign up again, we have to give him a chance, but I do suspect the new deal, might just be to secure us better compensation, if he goes elsewhere.

Odd, then, that he was interviewed by Mal Panton for Red TV - and came out well from it - in November 2025 with the chat seeming to suggest that his time at Gayfield was toughening him up and improving his fitba street wisdom with a return to Pittodrie in mind. 
https://redtv.afc.co.uk/en/video/s-loan-watch-findlay-marshall-trdsh

 

[blinlemon]

15 minutes ago, Bukta Bertie said:

It may well have been down mostly to the bods at Fraserburgh but surely it's a ridiculous decision to play it at the same time as our Scottish Cup tie. It's a further devaluation of a trophy we really should be taking more seriously.

I canna remember if the AS date was agreed before Johnny Aqua saw the intended Scottish Cup tie postponed. The decision would be Aberdeenshire FA’s rather than the Broch’s.
I worked with a number of Heelan League players who disliked the Shield games as there was no reward for winning it, and it just added to the late autumn/winter midweek fixture list. 

[Bukta Bertie]

10 minutes ago, blinlemon said:

I canna remember if the AS date was agreed before Johnny Aqua saw the intended Scottish Cup tie postponed. The decision would be Aberdeenshire FA’s rather than the Broch’s.
I worked with a number of Heelan League players who disliked the Shield games as there was no reward for winning it, and it just added to the late autumn/winter midweek fixture list. 

It should be a cherished and much valued tournament for every proud son from the best city and shire in the UK.

[blinlemon]

33 minutes ago, Bukta Bertie said:

It should be a cherished and much valued tournament for every proud son from the best city and shire in the UK.

That’s the Aberdeenshire (FA) Cup, taken seriously in that actual factual Saturdays (the Proper Mannies’ fitba day) are allocated to the competition. I did hear a while ago that the AC is the second oldest trophy still played for, just younger than the Scottish Cup. The original trophy was in the Dons’ possession after they won it a goodly number of times, and was lost in the 1971 fire.
The “shire” is no longer what Aberdeenshire was. Whilst the historic county still exists with important functions, the name was mistakenly given to the local authority area after the 1975/mid-90s reorganisations. So you now have pretendy “Aberdeenshire” stretching as far as the North Esk, ignoring the culture of the Mearns (I was at the Lewis Grassic Gibbon Centre on Friday night and am certain I heard the rumble of LLG’s remains as he spun in his grave in nearby Arbuthnott churchyard) and having the most perfect example of the oxymoron known to me in “Banff, Aberdeenshire”. 
The Aberdeenshire Cup was the first trophy, of many, that I witnessed Keith winning, in April 1967, but it’s been 17 years since I last enjoyed a Keith triumph in the tournament when we gave Huntly a cuffing in Inverurie in 2009. 

[Bukta Bertie]

2 minutes ago, blinlemon said:

That’s the Aberdeenshire (FA) Cup, taken seriously in that actual factual Saturdays (the Proper Mannies’ fitba day) are allocated to the competition. I did hear a while ago that the AC is the second oldest trophy still played for, just younger than the Scottish Cup. The original trophy was in the Dons’ possession after they won it a goodly number of times, and was lost in the 1971 fire.
The “shire” is no longer what Aberdeenshire was. Whilst the historic county still exists with important functions, the name was mistakenly given to the local authority area after the 1975/mid-90s reorganisations. So you now have pretendy “Aberdeenshire” stretching as far as the North Esk, ignoring the culture of the Mearns (I was at the Lewis Grassic Gibbon Centre on Friday night and am certain I heard the rumble of LLG’s remains as he spun in his grave in nearby Arbuthnott churchyard) and having the most perfect example of the oxymoron known to me in “Banff, Aberdeenshire”. 
The Aberdeenshire Cup was the first trophy, of many, that I witnessed Keith winning, in April 1967, but it’s been 17 years since I last enjoyed a Keith triumph in the tournament when we gave Huntly a cuffing in Inverurie in 2009. 

Panic over then. I thought this was the Aberdeenshire Cup. I stand corrected and happily so.

[blinlemon]

1 hour ago, Bukta Bertie said:

Panic over then. I thought this was the Aberdeenshire Cup. I stand corrected and happily so.

The Dons beat Formartine on penalties (at Harlaw Park) to win the current season’s trophy. I think it finished 2-2 AET before the penalties. 

[THFN1983]

Continuing on with our lack of forwards coming through the ranks, and our lack of real goalscoring forwards that we've been blessed with recently (with a few notable exceptions), I decided to have a little AI Q&A about how we have fared in front of goal since the 2010/2011 season up until now and compare that with Motherwell and Celtic as they have been present in the league fully since then. I thought 15 years was a fair sample size to accurately make an informed point.

AI answers that since the start of the 2010/2011 season the goals scored and subsequent ratios are as follows....

Aberdeen - 677 = 1.21

Motherwell - 731 = 1.26

Celtic - 1364 = 2.4

AI answers that since the start of the 2010/2011 season the goals conceded and subsequent ratios are as follows....

Aberdeen - 679 = 1.21

Motherwell - 857 = 1.52

Celtic - 384 = 0.67

Basically for all the extra money we've spent, and I'm sure it's a hell of a lot more than Motherwell! We have seen no better end product on the park with regards to the forward lines of each team. Yes we have a better goals conceded ratio but surely you go to watch football to see your team score and conceding less is a bonus.

Looking at the average attendance in the league for Aberdeen and Motherwell for the past 15 years it is clear that we have many thousands more coming through the turnstiles than Motherwell as their highest average attendance, out with this year, was 5946 in 11/12 season whereas our worst was 9072 in 10/11 season but reaching a high of 17,793 last year.

And finally I had a look at league placings since the 2010/2011 season and Motherwell have finished higher than us 7 times and will be 8 come the conclusion of this season.

I guess what I'm asking is what is the point in AFC spunking millions more on transfer fees, wages, manager recruitment, youth development etc. etc. when there is no difference from a team like Motherwell? Who in actual fact have a better placing record in the league than us in the past 15 years.

I need to lie down after finding all that out!

[THFN1983]

To add, we have an average league placing of 5th (5.14) from the past 14 years which obviously will be worse this year and Motherwell have an average of 6th (6.43) which will be bettered this year.

Motherwell's turnover last year was estimated at around £5million whereas ours was roughly £23.5 million.

Edited 6 minutes ago by THFN1983
added more info