Dons youth

[THFN1983]

5 minutes ago, RicoS321 said:

I was responding in context to Bavidge. When he signed his three year deal with us, Lewis Pirie (the striker with more potential) signed for Leeds. What happens when they go down there and languish on their B team bench, I guess is irrelevant. Again, we're specifically speaking about strikers, and there aren't many who came through the youth teams playing in the SPFL (our very own Bruce Anderson of course). If they show any potential in that position, they get snapped up. Even Wilson at Hearts, which is a strange one. Bowie went to Fulham from Raith. The Huns and Tims have both lost strikers in recent times. A bit like goalkeepers, it's a difficult position to break through in. 

Could it be argued that players coming through the youth system have watched player after player get rejected by AFC or not get an honest opportunity to develop in the first team squad and as such when a team from down south comes calling then they jump at the chance?

You only have to look at the amount of absolute dross that we have signed over the years, and lets be clear that there have been some truly horrific players that we've spent a lot of money on, but yet we are unwilling to give our own developing talent a fair chance to really assess whether they'll make it or not. It's not like we've been playing exceptionally well and have found it difficult to slot youth in to a winning side!

Another way to look at things is McKenna, Ramsey, Lobban were so far out of the picture until injuries/suspensions happened and suddenly they were thrust into the starting 11 and lo and behold they stood out as being real players, players that the coaching staff basically ignored.

Another example of a young player leaving us early would be Fletcher Boyd. He came in at the end of a season, played really well, scored a few goals and we all saw incredible potential but the very next season he was out of the picture, not getting any first team action and it was no wonder that he decided to go down south.

[RicoS321]

1 hour ago, THFN1983 said:

Could it be argued that players coming through the youth system have watched player after player get rejected by AFC or not get an honest opportunity to develop in the first team squad and as such when a team from down south comes calling then they jump at the chance?

You only have to look at the amount of absolute dross that we have signed over the years, and lets be clear that there have been some truly horrific players that we've spent a lot of money on, but yet we are unwilling to give our own developing talent a fair chance to really assess whether they'll make it or not. It's not like we've been playing exceptionally well and have found it difficult to slot youth in to a winning side!

Another way to look at things is McKenna, Ramsey, Lobban were so far out of the picture until injuries/suspensions happened and suddenly they were thrust into the starting 11 and lo and behold they stood out as being real players, players that the coaching staff basically ignored.

Another example of a young player leaving us early would be Fletcher Boyd. He came in at the end of a season, played really well, scored a few goals and we all saw incredible potential but the very next season he was out of the picture, not getting any first team action and it was no wonder that he decided to go down south.

We seem to be talking about different things. I thought we were speaking about strikers. I don't disagree that we have been poor in our transitioning of youth to first team. Personally, I think the club should go with quotas, and make it public so that fans can't complain when a youngster who possibly isn't up to it is getting minutes. 

[THFN1983]

8 minutes ago, RicoS321 said:

We seem to be talking about different things. I thought we were speaking about strikers. I don't disagree that we have been poor in our transitioning of youth to first team. Personally, I think the club should go with quotas, and make it public so that fans can't complain when a youngster who possibly isn't up to it is getting minutes. 

The origin was our complete lack of forwards coming through and making an impact but it has evolved into the a possible reason why youth players feel the need to chase the dream down south due to your response being what it was.

We just seem to have zero faith in players that have been with us since kids but are willing to spend way over the odds for imports that the average supporter can see from day one aren't anywhere near the level required.

[Jute]

Daily Record reporting that club to open talks with Findlay Marshall about extending his contract. 

[wee toon red]

1 hour ago, THFN1983 said:

The origin was our complete lack of forwards coming through and making an impact but it has evolved into the a possible reason why youth players feel the need to chase the dream down south due to your response being what it was.

We just seem to have zero faith in players that have been with us since kids but are willing to spend way over the odds for imports that the average supporter can see from day one aren't anywhere near the level required.

Spin it another way: which of our youths have gone on to prove us wrong in not giving them a chance or letting them go?

You’ve got Anderson at Killie and Ethan Ross at Falkirk, neither of whom would excite the support if we signed them now.

The bigger question might be why we’re not producing many youth players of note - which is where English academies poaching players comes in - or, indeed, if we’ve done very well to have had Fraser, McKenna and Ramsay move on to “bigger” things and making us money.

[Kowalski]

For Bavidge. See Shankland. 

[wee toon red]

Just now, Kowalski said:

For Bavidge. See Shankland. 

Shit attitude and needs the boot up the arse of being let go to have a chance of sorting himself out?

[RicoS321]

Just now, Kowalski said:

For Bavidge. See Shankland. 

I don't think so. Shankland was better before we signed him. He also had the physique that had a chance of making it. Bavidge would be better compared to Anderson.

[THFN1983]

4 minutes ago, wee toon red said:

Spin it another way: which of our youths have gone on to prove us wrong in not giving them a chance or letting them go?

You’ve got Anderson at Killie and Ethan Ross at Falkirk, neither of whom would excite the support if we signed them now.

The bigger question might be why we’re not producing many youth players of note - which is where English academies poaching players comes in - or, indeed, if we’ve done very well to have had Fraser, McKenna and Ramsay move on to “bigger” things and making us money.

It's true that many youths won't go on to make it as a serious professional and we can't always expect to have a steady stream coming in to our first 11 but I genuinely feel that despite all the talk by Dave and the coaches, we have performed even worse than the men's first team currently and that takes some doing.

That being said, you never know how good a player is until they get an opportunity and I'm sure there has been countless players that we've let go that have been better than Ambrose, Yengi etc. 

With regards to not a lot of players kicking on after departing us, well that doesn't always mean they weren't good enough as we have signed players that have been decent in other clubs but when they get to us they have been terrible. Sometimes it's an environment issue, a behaviour issue, being away from home, injuries but not always because they weren't up to scratch.

 

[RicoS321]

36 minutes ago, THFN1983 said:

It's true that many youths won't go on to make it as a serious professional and we can't always expect to have a steady stream coming in to our first 11 but I genuinely feel that despite all the talk by Dave and the coaches, we have performed even worse than the men's first team currently and that takes some doing.

That being said, you never know how good a player is until they get an opportunity and I'm sure there has been countless players that we've let go that have been better than Ambrose, Yengi etc. 

With regards to not a lot of players kicking on after departing us, well that doesn't always mean they weren't good enough as we have signed players that have been decent in other clubs but when they get to us they have been terrible. Sometimes it's an environment issue, a behaviour issue, being away from home, injuries but not always because they weren't up to scratch.

 

Of course there will have been youth players that are better than Ambrose or Yengi, but they can be better than our shitest signings without being good enough still. The thing about youth players is that we know whether they are good enough or not (generally speaking), whereas players we've signed are comparatively unknown. Being better than the shite isn't a reason to play youth players, because they might have deficiencies in physical areas, whilst also being not good enough. 

I'm not totally sure what the benchmark of a successful youth development would be. One player per season? That would mean that you should have two or three minimum that have  come through the youth system in the team. We have Milne and Lobban. Probably one short. 

[wee toon red]

1 hour ago, RicoS321 said:

Of course there will have been youth players that are better than Ambrose or Yengi, but they can be better than our shitest signings without being good enough still. The thing about youth players is that we know whether they are good enough or not (generally speaking), whereas players we've signed are comparatively unknown. Being better than the shite isn't a reason to play youth players, because they might have deficiencies in physical areas, whilst also being not good enough. 

I'm not totally sure what the benchmark of a successful youth development would be. One player per season? That would mean that you should have two or three minimum that have  come through the youth system in the team. We have Milne and Lobban. Probably one short. 

If you go with three as a minimum, then you’ve got Milne and Lobban as you say, who each still have plenty to prove. Ryan Duncan was given a reasonable number of chances but doesn’t seem to have “it”. Then there’s those who fucked off for a better offer like Boyd and a couple of others. There’s also the out on loan crew, out of whom it sounds like Marshall might have a chance. That’s not a great return but similarly it isn’t nothing and suggests we do try to give out young guys a chance.

At the risk of repeating myself, it isn’t necessarily the lack of chances for our own youth that’s worrying me, it’s why our own youth aren’t good enough. Look at the Scotland youth squads and we don’t feature anything like as strongly as I think a club of our size should strive to. If they’re at Aberdeen and not good enough for Scotland at age group level then that’s a real concern.

Edited 5 hours ago by wee toon red

[RicoS321]

15 minutes ago, wee toon red said:

If you go with three as a minimum, then you’ve got Milne and Lobban as you say, who each still have plenty to prove. Ryan Duncan was given a reasonable number of chances but doesn’t seem to have “it”. Then there’s those who fucked off for a better offer like Boyd and a couple of others. There’s also the out on loan crew, out of whom it sounds like Marshall might have a chance. That’s not a great return but similarly it isn’t nothing and suggests we do try to give out young guys a chance.

At the risk of repeating myself, it isn’t necessarily the lack of chances for our own youth that’s worrying me, it’s why our own youth aren’t good enough. Look at the Scotland youth squads and we don’t feature anything like as strongly as I think a club of our size should strive to. If they’re at Aberdeen and not good enough for Scotland at age group level then that’s a real concern.

Does any club feature strongly for Scotland? Looking at the last u19s for example, half the players are in England and the rest belong to different clubs. Boyd is in it, as our representative in that regard. I can't find much on the u17s, I'm guessing that Masson and Carrol would be involved, with both at one point rumoured to be off down south too. It seems reasonable to say that we should be well represented, but I don't think anyone is, which suggests that young players are moving around a lot more.

[Blow.Up.Sheep]

Whatever way you want to look at, can't help but feel sorry for Bavidge, I am nae saying he is our answer to the lack of goals, I am nae saying he is brillaint but he is at least on a par (probably even a better option) than the boy Lazetic who is getting a far bigger chunk of dosh than Bavidge would be on and yet for certain 100% we would get a better return out of Bavidge than we get out of Lazetic.

Young Alfie is bound to be completely baffled by that, as I know I am and am probably not alone with this way of thinking