Ajja

In all seriousness, in terms of structures and personnel I'm not sure how much change can be made. There is no money and Scottish football is in crisis so there will be no more for the medium to long term. This puts the stops on most of the chnages we would all like to see, ie better quality players. That said I actually think the youth programme, a new approach to contract lengths and plans to set up an academy are great steps forward for the medium term. I've never been convinced that Milne is the disaster that most fans seem to think he is. I can't imagine running a football club in Scottish football terms is anything other than almost impossible with the financial difficulties in balancing budgets, the huge egos of footballers and their agents and the emotional input from fans. I suspect Milne might be more pragmatic and sensible than people think but it doesn't sit well with the hopes and dreams of fans. If we are to accept that the current personnel are there for the foreseeable then I think a complete cultural change at the club is what is really required. From top to bottom we need a more collaborative approach. Board supporting management team, management team supporting players, club supporting fans and fans supporting club. There needs to be a public display of this regularly, the club needs to feel like a place that's full of energy and enthusiasm for the fight. Players need to be hungry to fight for each other as well as the club. The senior managers at the club need to be more vocal with their praise and support, to be talking up the club instead of making excuses. The club itself needs to engage the fanbase and start to see us as a positive lever in lifting the team rather than a nuisance. We need to see positive messages coming out of every aspect of the club, constructive discussion and ideas, innovative matchday activity. The malaise and divisive cynicism that is eroding the club at present needs to be weeded out. I actually think what Paul Hartley has been trying to do has been along these lines but he can't do it in isolation. His actions alone felt pretty positive to me at the start of the season. I guess that seems like a load of woolly crap but given the resources that exist to make changes I tihnk it the cheapest and simplest thing they could do. A simple change in attitude and approach...that is all. If I think of anything better I will be sure to say.

For every Ifil there is a Hartley, Vernon and Folly - 3 excellent signings I'd suggest. On balance his dealings have been more good than bad.

Outward communications to media ? Improving presentation style of management ? Killing drinking culture ? Increased or different training regimes ? Encouraging socialising as a group/building positive relations within squad ? Senior management involvement intensified or decreased? Restructuring wages to transfer fee relationship ? More youth experimentation in first team ? Marketing initiatives ? Change to pricing policy to increase attendances ? More public support from within club for fans ? Standing area/singing areas ? Consultation with key fans groups ? New toaster ? Who knows......

Not sure of the magical nature of any plans but it would be nice if the 'changes to operations' meant that McGhee was going to be given a bit more space with budget.

There is also an argument to say that they took their time to make a thought out decision after a lot of discussions rather than leaping to satisfy the demand for blood from the fans. You don't make decisions that may have a huge impact on the commercial aspect of Aberdeen FC without looking at it very carefully.

Agreed on all fronts. A big part of the reason why I am choosing to take a more 'understanding' position on this is that I am pretty numb to anything and everything linked with Aberdeen and Scottish football at the moment. I have surprised myself with how little I was affected by the 9-0 at the weekend. I patiently await inspiration with little sense of belief it will arrive too soon, certainly can't see it coming at Ibrox this weekend.

While I'm at it I really hope we don't take a punt on Steve Clark. I watched an interview with him somewhere recently and he sounded like a hugely dull character. Sounded desperate to get his own club and I don't like that, have some self respect. It might be an unfair judgement but I'm sure he has been no.2 for so long for good reasons.

Horrible thought. If our players don't like McGhee's bullish approach how will they take to Collins chest beating ?

Aberdeen Mad in wider angle lens shocker ? What is the afc 'knee-jerk' chat poll at ?

Very limited evidence available I agree. That said, I would happily see Considine and Vuja in the backline at the moment and I'm sure Howard or Langfield would too. The complete collapse of our central defence is actually more frightening than our lack of decent full backs as far as I can see. From what I saw of Fyvie in Perth he changed the game when he came on and he was in control of everything at Alloa before he went off. It's not so much about whether the players ot come in are better, it's more about having a stable first 11. We are constantly having to piss around with our starting team and it destroys any chance of confidence building or finding a groove. Not suggesting its the silver bullet but it's a contributing factor. In terms of managerial appointments, there is a world of difference between thinking that a manager is the right choice at the time and them turning out to be the right choice. Most of our managers have been fairly obvious choices, guys doing or having done decent jobs at other Scottish clubs, promotions from No. 2 etc with the exception of Ebbe. Very little evidence of a Board applying a high degree of research, hard work and insight into appointments. I agree, they probably all seemed sensible enough but not particularly inspiring. McGhee was appointed in exactly the same style, laziness and fan pressure rather than genuine enterprising Board activity. Fully expect we will do the same again. Eric Black is likely having lunch with Miller as we type.......it's hardly inspiring stuff is it ?

Sure I heard Richard Gordon say last night that we needed 11,000 coming through the doors on average to break even in normal conditions. Obviously, we are way off that now so would need to be seeing an uplift to around 12,000-13,000 to balance out early games and deliver 11,000 average over season to not lose money. That's not even factoring in the comp money that might go out. Not going to be a particularly profitable season, despite lifting the CIS cup

We are dealing with a different team now though. If the majority of them were fit I would have much more belief than the squad we had last season. Trouble is, they aren't fit. In terms of attendance, I fear Jager is correct. A new manager is not likely to improve figures in the short term, as I said before I believe there are economic challenges that go way beyond Aberdeen FC's ability to attract greater foot traffic.

I agree that the risk of sticking with him this season is significant and relegation is a real prospect in a league where there is little to put between most teams. However, I have enough optimism that without too many injuries and players out we are capable of winning enough games to get to mid-table. Here is a question for you. It's clear nobody trusts McGhee to make the right decisions to turn things around in any significant way but do you believe that the Board have the skill set to select his successor with any degree of competence ? I don't think I do and that's actually a bigger worry for me.

I'm going to try really hard here to not get labelled as an apologist for McGhee or to be seen as supporting his managerial regime. I have been hugely unimpressed with the way that McGhee has managed the team since his appointment and I am not sure that anything will change. He appears to a be a combatitive character who struggles to get the best out of our footballing staff for whatever reason but I am not convinced that he is a bad manager per se. Although he has been for us, no argument, and in an ideal world we should get rid and build again with a better quality option. As always there is a bigger picture to consider in this that may mean that the simple, straightforward result of sacking him and his team and starting again (again) may not be the smartest option. I think in our anger and embarrassment we need to at least consider that. I agree it is unfair to compare JC and McGhee and you cannot argue their records are miles apart at Aberdeen. It is also unfair to compare them because the climate in which they are operating is also miles apart. Crowds were falling in the last seasons under JC and McGhee has not been able to arrest that fall for sure. We also have to appreciate there is the most savage economic recession on in all of our lifetimes and every club, indeed every business, is seeing the same problem. Its not a black and white issue, although I concede its a pretty dire one. The collapse of TV revenue has also severely impaired the player budget in a way that JC never had to contend with, not even close. McGhee simply has not been able to draw on anything like the same resource as JC did in his early years. Results and performances were sliding very fast when JC was pushed out as quality players were leaving and he was not able to replace them. JC has done nothing since leaving Pittodrie to suggest he is a manager in great demand. I actually think McGhee has brought in some decent players and with the obvious glaring error in the back line we have a side well capable of beating anyone in the league and winning more than we lose. He has, without doubt, been hammered with key injuries but for whatever reason is finding it difficult to motivate the squad as a whole. If we pay him and his team off then I fear that we will have a smaller, poorer squad next term and that is frankly a terrifying prospect under any manager. Add that to the fact that we are not a club who can go after managers as we please, even guys like Butcher, McInnes or Adams would think twice about taking the job and we would not have the money to prize them away. It's possible to pull out examples where an unknown manager has done exceptional things with no budget but the risk on such a manager is huge and as fans I would struggle to see us accepting such a move. Personally I believe that we have to ride out this season and salvage what we can and look at replacing McGhee without the costs. If by some miracle he gets to grips with this team in that period then great, but it's hard to see that happening. In the next 6 months the club need to be working very fucking hard to find that diamond in the rough manager that will turn things around but it's a huge challenge as they will be trying to manage a team at a rotten club, saddled with debt and shackled by the dying Scottish football establishment around them in a hideous economic recession. Good luck with that.

Who can tell, possibly so. It's only speculation on my part anyway so don't read too much into it. Milne is a businessman first and foremost and what ever is said about him he will know his way around P&Ls and balance sheets and pissing away money in this environment is not a smart move. He has had a history of holding back on sackings has he not ? Sure he was reported as the reason Ebbe stuck around so long and possibly sanctioned a 3 year deal for JC when the rot was setting in there.

Very true but what change will reverse that ? I'm not convinced that there is an obvious choice out there that we can afford and can be sure will turn it around. There is a rot at Aberdeen that can't be fixed by a different manager as far as I'm concerned. I'm not suggesting McGhee is the right choice for the future but I think we have to stick with him as we have very little options that are better. It's a fucking tragedy that we are here...but we are.

Cop mate working at Tynecastle tonight says atmosphere is nasty and there were running battles before the game. Says Celtic fans are utter scum....no news there then.

My understanding is that the Board are not in agreement about the best course of action. Mainly as a result of Milne's input. He does not want to sack McGhee at this moment, possibly due to the costs involved and potentially then having to spend more on a replacement who is likely to make little difference given where we are going to be shopping. Have to say that, as controversial as it is, I agree with Milne.

My mate works with Calum Jeffries and by all accounts his dad is ripping about this. Doesn't rate Skacel as he is overweight and past it. Romanov is just trying to buy the support. Still, he will put numbers through the turnstiles as those morons will come in their thousands to genuflect.

Don't forget that was combined with the introduction of FF into midfield. Although I think Vernon looks a more intelligent player than Magennis, he looked more dangerous against Alloa when he came on and was making smart runs, Magennis is a battering ram.

Forum hopping

'Good' is a relative concept. He was good if you compare him to Duff, Young et al.

Anyone who can be arsed searching online know when this takes place ? EDIT: OK, so I think I see it's Tuesday next week.... Just forget I asked

If there is any truth in this, and I doubt there is, the Huns will be thinking they can get him on the cheap because we are rooked. I actually think we need to work bloody hard to hold onto Foster, not because I don't want the huns to have him, by fuck we could do with the money. It's more because we are seriosuly short of pacey full backs. We have managed fine with McArdle and Considine so far but they have not been challenged. St Johnstone lined up with the express intention of exploiting us down the flanks and its only because they were no good at it that we got away with it. When we come up against guys like Weiss, Driver, Conway or Forrest/Maloney we will be found out if we don't have Foster. He is the best man marker in the SPL and has silenced many of these types of players previously. We MUST keep him in the squad for these types of games.

I'm good with that. As long as he is deployed to man mark all of the fuckers I mentioned in my previous post then we can have as many big fucker FBs who should really be CBs as we like.