OrlandoDon

Hey man, not an attack on you at all, just heard it a few times now, and I personally think it’s another over reaction to the shit state we’re in right now.

It doesn’t need to happen in the summer, I just think it will. I’d certainly prefer a legit permanent hire now, I just don’t see it. just because doc failed in other places does mean he can’t coach and lead. McGhee is a good example too, was awful with us but had success elsewhere, hence he was also considered for the Celtic job. It’s not working for leven and every game counts. I just sense doc is the better leader for us right now, right now is key, and it’s a pretty seamless and quick transition.

I don’t buy this. Who in their right mind takes a managers job knowing he doesn’t pick the team. Youve got nothing to gain there, and let’s just say you do well and are up for a future head coaches job, do you tell them you didn’t actually pick the team?? He may be getting input but I have to believe Leven has the final say. ill also add, who knows the squad better, Leven or lutz, and who has coached us before. Lutz picking the team makes no sense. Has he even been a manager/coach before?? loads of people losing it at present given the situation, and plenty of chat going around, some maybe true, others complete nonsense.

How’s Stanway looking, I see he scored?

We all want a new permanent manager, I don’t think that’s the discussion. Pretty sure that happens in the summer, it’s the increasingly worrying period before that. how could doc be worse? We’re playing terribly, don’t create chances, don’t score, can’t defend, gift goals, don’t look overly aggressive or competitive, and lose most games. And team selection is debatable. Law of averages, it would be quite hard to be worse. i think the honorable thing to do is leven walks away, we make that happen. You certainly cannot swap. You have a convo and he steps aside. That leave doc and the new boy coaching/running the first team, do we really need three coaches for 9 games? Your laughable comment has little weight, we’re beyond laughable at the moment anyway, and we have a 9 game season. I don’t care if people laugh if it means winning games, even simply picking up points.

100% agree it’s not purely leven, I’ve also commented a few times about recruitment. There’s other factors that haven’t helped, including injuries, suspension, even the weather! But are you suggesting we stick with the status quo right now? once the club has a manager it will be announced, the sooner the better. But yesterday was a big fuck up by leven. We have ultimately no idea if doc would be better, but can he be any worse? He’s more experienced, and has led a team, that should count for something. While doc is assistant, leven is the decision maker and main man. It makes a difference who is in control, has the final say, the motivation and leadership, the responsibility and respect from the players, so when you say it makes little difference, I think you are wrong. I’ve been both a head and assistant coach before, big difference if you are asst or head. Man management is one of doc’s strengths, plus his experience, you don’t think he can get more out of this group? nine big games, you trust leven with them?

I think the way you are judging Sarah and Julie is totally unfair. But both may do a better job than leven at present. You can’t compare doc and leven, doc has been a successful assistant and head coach, knows more than leven from experience alone. Whether he’s an actually a better coach is debatable, but he’s been trusted in leadership roles which suggests a certain level of knowledge and ability. He’s also been in bottom six battles, more experienced and tested than leven. leven has been in charge for close to two months, he is the constant. We haven’t clearly improved or weakened because of the hiring of the other two. I think it’s fair to place blame on him for where we are at present. He hasn’t improved anything, arguably we’re worse as a result of his appointment. It’s an unfortunate situation, are you suggesting he gets demoted for doc but stays at the club? That would be an odd dynamic if he’s still involved in the first team. Or are you suggesting we stick and hope?

I have gotten a lot of push back when I say this, but the stars aligned for Mcinnes when he came to us. Rangers had died, hearts Dundee utd and hibs had all been relegated while Mcinnes was here, and he inherited the foundation of a solid squad. We added a few good signings, plus he had some good leaders, and it was a very good spell with him. Similarities to hearts this season maybe, the rest have their problems and he inherited a good squad.

Ha! I was going to say dylan mcgeough, excellent at hibs and had been in the Scotland squad. Mcinnes didn’t do so well with him. not here to bash Mcinnes. It’s just a flawed argument. As was mentioned too, he’s in a purple patch at present so looks extra appealing. At times the stars just align. They aren’t quite doing that for us these days!

I’m not missing the point. you are correct, finlay was a Mcinnes signing, forgot about that. Jimmy brought sivert. Mcinnes would def get more out of this group than leven, he’s not even head coach quality. But how much more, the team is awful. You could also argue Mcinnes was not getting the most out of our squad his last two years, he had Lewis, considine, mcginn, hedges, mccrorie, Ferguson, Hayes, cosgrove for some part, maybe Shay and Scott wright too, most/all would start for us right now. at the same time, arguing against myself, look how Morris changed under Thelin, gueye too, maybe a new manager gets more out of Aussie player of the year milanovic for example. did we make mistakes in the dugout? Glass was left field, but there was reason behind the others. Common theme though is poor signings and the squad continues to get worse, replacing players with poorer versions. its all shoulda woulda coulda, hypothetical and we’ll never know.

Don’t hate the player, hate the game. I enjoy football less and less, the modern game is shit and we’re hurting as a result. I don’t blame cormack, we’re a much better club under him. But the team is shit at present, but we can change that. Performance changes quickly. Eg look at man utd at present. With the current game every season is a one off, we’ve finished this one and have to build for the next. Dont see us relegated, but obviously that isn’t guaranteed. this is modern football. Chelsea arsenal spurs Liverpool, man utd, even man city, all have significant manager and player turnover and have had their wobbles on the field in recent years. We’re no different really. Man utd and Chelsea are good comparisons to us, both had eras of player stability and success, similar to us under Mcinnes, but when the teams aged and had squad turnover, it’s been constant manager change and a struggle to be successful. rangers and Celtic are unstable. Celtic don’t have a good squad and don’t have a manager. They are vulnerable. Look at rangers under Martin, shit coach and shit team. How well has rohl done. But they aren’t strong. Hearts are having a great season, they were in the championship in 2021, things change and quickly. Good chance hearts lose players this summer, and possibly Mcinnes. dark times and frustration clearly justified, but point the blame at modern football. Sadly.

It’s very clear we are heading in the wrong direction on the pitch. How do you change that? You either change the players, the manager, or both. We dont have a window, could sign free agents but that won’t happen, so change the coaching staff. We’ve added doc and the other boy, and it hasn’t got better. What’s the constant in the coaching staff since jimmy left, leven. It’s not working and doing nothing suggests nothing changes, and we do get sucked further down the league. Leven also seems to have a very limited personality. Doesn’t seem to have the fire or the motivation to get a team going. i do think doc has the personality to bring that new manager bounce despite already being here, and that’s worth a win or two that makes a difference.

It’s just a silly argument/discussion. So many variables. Would we be better with McKenna at the back? Ferguson in midfield? Miovski up top? do you think we’d be better with Halkett and Findlay in central defense, or braga up top? Mcinnes was given them, he did nothing, we got Morrison, McIntyre, and lazetic. Flawed examples of course but you get my point. You can only coach the players you are given. The squad is awful. Do I think Mcinnes would do a better job than leven? Absolutely. But the current squad was created by the increased budget, how much more would a competent manager get out of them? Mcinnes struggled in his last 2 years with us, did he have a better squad then than we do now?

Why do you think he doesn’t pick the team? I assume you think lutz does?

I don’t buy that. You’re basically saying Derek is good in the transfer market. The squad was changing, giving Derek the check book guaranteed nothing. Looking at hearts today, pretty sure he had little or no say in that squad. Our recruitment has been really poor in recent years, do you think he’d be doing well with this current group? plus the limited home grown talent hurts, that’s my take. its definitely dark times right now. But wanting the ex back because we’re sitting home alone playing with ourselves is not the solution. Not saying we want him back, just it’s an easy excuse.

It’s the same for both teams but my point was that we didn’t pick a team that suited the conditions/surface/environment/occasion. maybe second half we went more direct as a result of the conditions, but it wasn’t really going direct with any sort of tactic or purpose. We played hit and hope for about the last 30 mins and created little or nothing. There was no coaching or game plan, other than throw on a second forward and hope, then throw on a third forward and hope some more. as someone who has coached for 30 years, I always look for coaches influence and in game adjustments. Coaches can win games. See nothing from leven to suggest he’s got a creative mind, even a basic understanding. He’s doing more damage than Jimmy, who was bad enough.

Not just understanding the midfielders. But understanding the occasion. Cup game away to a lower league team and he came in with a powder puff technical midfield and youth. I couldnt tell but I think it was damp and a heavy pitch? Another reason you don’t really go with flair. You could throw in the fact it was a Neil Lennon team too but I don’t think he outcoached leven, the damage was all leven’s own doing.

Lineup was awful yesterday. Not only center midfield, but midfield in general was powderpuff, but a back 4 of three young guys and a guy just in the door. Easy to say it now, but I’d probably have kept sivert at the back in a back 3, and afeez in midfield, even though we’ve seen very little from him. Said it pregame, expecting Armstrong to do heavy lifting is criminal. we didn’t start too badly and the first goal def against the run of play. But at that point we needed to pull the socks up and dig in. That lineup clearly didn’t have the drive, muscle, or experience to do that.

A bit harsh to turn on lutz, guy is just in the door. We needed a DOF type, and the guy is experienced and has connections. Why was he a panic signing, seems a long thought out hiring? Looks like his first responsibilities were to reduce an overly bloated squad which he’s done/doing, and then obviously find a manager. the squad is awful, you cannot blame him for that at all. We also added the loaners in January to fill a gap to get us to summer when the opportunity to add players is obviously better. I get this situation, not his fault he inherited the squad he did. the manager situation is different, plus since nobody knows the situation people make things up, including the media. We clearly didnt have a standout candidate initially, then horneland becomes available, then whatever issue with him (medical??). I think he sees the limitations in Peter hence he’s not been announced until summer, so we’re hoping to get this resolved, but it hasn’t. It is a mess, but I do t think anyone wants Robinson or similar just to get a manager in. i don’t know who I blame. Jimmy and the recruitment team? Seems it went to shit when mowbray left?

I’m only saying tony doc because I think he’s a better option than leven. Maybe gets us one or two more wins but that matters. Don’t see us getting a legit manager until summer so it’s our best option.

I don’t think we’ll get someone now. Managers are not given time, that’s modern football. We have an awful squad with no confidence. What gain does the new guy have coming now, versus in the summer when he builds a squad and gets a preseason? I truly believe that if we want a ‘good’ manager, we’ll need to wait until summer.

Yup. Said pregame too that we need a holding mid and center mid was a concern. Sivert should have prob started over sivert. Don’t think Lobban was poor, but I’d have gone with the more defensive minded molloy over frame too.

I don’t think so. But it highlights why I highly doubt someone will come in now versus the summer. We’re a shit show and the new manager will want a window summer and preseason. They’re pretty much fucked if they were to start now. Awful squad with no confidence. That’s why I think you give it to doc for now, at least he’s seasoned, leven isn’t capable and I fear where we’ll go under him.

Our ‘new’ manager isn’t coming until summer whether we like this or not. We absolutely cannot continue as is but cannot fill the spot with a permanent manager right now, I’d say doc is more capable and experienced than leven and that is needed right now.

Since the third goal our attacking play has been punt but long and hope. Got zero from it. Shambles. Hope leven goes and we give doc the team until summer.