No Shinnie or Christie???

 

Wtf Strachan.

 

I agree we should keep the same team who should've beaten England but bringing in Whittaker and excluding them?

 

Nuts

Morning after stuff

We got exactly what we deserved to be honest and that was SFA. What an awful tournament we had and I'm not laying the blame that we were missing a few players or the fact that we potentially MIGHT have had a penalty.

Clarke far too loyal to certain players (Adams & McGregor immediately spring to mind. What was the point in taking the likes of McCrorie, Conway, Forrest, Shankland and literally giving them no playing time at all in the case of the first three and next to none for the last named.

Time up for Mr Clarke and his miserable demeanour.

My main feeling today is anger, and thats directed at myself, why oh why after all these years did I allow myself to be sucked into believing that things would be any different this time around.

Lastly feel sorry for those that spend their hard earned cash following Scotland to ultimately be let down by a gutless, spineless, clueless bunch of supposed professional footballers and the overly loyal and equally clueless Clarke

15 minutes ago, BigAl said:

Morning after stuff

We got exactly what we deserved to be honest and that was SFA. What an awful tournament we had and I'm not laying the blame that we were missing a few players or the fact that we potentially MIGHT have had a penalty.

Clarke far too loyal to certain players (Adams & McGregor immediately spring to mind. What was the point in taking the likes of McCrorie, Conway, Forrest, Shankland and literally giving them no playing time at all in the case of the first three and next to none for the last named.

Time up for Mr Clarke and his miserable demeanour.

My main feeling today is anger, and thats directed at myself, why oh why after all these years did I allow myself to be sucked into believing that things would be any different this time around.

Lastly feel sorry for those that spend their hard earned cash following Scotland to ultimately be let down by a gutless, spineless, clueless bunch of supposed professional footballers and the overly loyal and equally clueless Clarke

That started off sounding like morning after stuff, but quickly descended into "not yet over it" territory!

I think there were two forms of loyalty on show. One in the picking of the squad, and the second once they got there. We peaked a year too early, in qualifying, and Clarke just continued to play the same team. He has to start viewing the national team as a continual project in constant transition. Every few games, we need to be bringing in a few new faces, and always be on the look out for options in every position. Despite the goals in Oslo, it was clear that McLean and Armstrong (among others) were past their best before date, and needed to be transitioned out, but that never happened. Morgan could have been in several squads before now, for example, and I'm sure there are others of around that age. It seemed to be that because our first eleven were doing well - and I have no doubt that we'd have qualifyed with Dykes, Hickey and Ferguson - he let the wider squad ability slip. He'll now have to ditch them all at once for the next campaign. It's not great management, but again, it's not just a one man show. There have to be people in and around playing devil's advocate, asking him the difficult questions and helping him to question himself and justify his decisions. A bit like McInnes with us, it seems that we've just handed him the keys and fucked off. It's not a healthy situation, and will almost always lead to the eventual sacking.

 

1 hour ago, RicoS321 said:

That started off sounding like morning after stuff, but quickly descended into "not yet over it" territory!

I think there were two forms of loyalty on show. One in the picking of the squad, and the second once they got there. We peaked a year too early, in qualifying, and Clarke just continued to play the same team. He has to start viewing the national team as a continual project in constant transition. Every few games, we need to be bringing in a few new faces, and always be on the look out for options in every position. Despite the goals in Oslo, it was clear that McLean and Armstrong (among others) were past their best before date, and needed to be transitioned out, but that never happened. Morgan could have been in several squads before now, for example, and I'm sure there are others of around that age. It seemed to be that because our first eleven were doing well - and I have no doubt that we'd have qualifyed with Dykes, Hickey and Ferguson - he let the wider squad ability slip. He'll now have to ditch them all at once for the next campaign. It's not great management, but again, it's not just a one man show. There have to be people in and around playing devil's advocate, asking him the difficult questions and helping him to question himself and justify his decisions. A bit like McInnes with us, it seems that we've just handed him the keys and fucked off. It's not a healthy situation, and will almost always lead to the eventual sacking.

 

As ever my friend, an extremely well articulated post and far better than the way I put it.

I think your comparison with the McInnes scenario is spot on.

Once the cries of Clarke out gather pace, expect the same reaction as we kept getting told regarding Del

"Be careful what you wish for" from those who want to show the same loyalty to Clarke that he does to his squad

I’d say it’s a more accurate comparison looking at Scotland and last seasons dons. Comparing him to mcinnes, we aren’t there yet. Mcinnes was in decline for maybe 3 seasons before we punted him, I’d say for Clarke this is the first real time questions are being asked. I’d say Scotland have been in decline for maybe 12 months.

clarke deserves to stay for now but we’ll learn a lot very quickly, two main things - 

does he stick with the 3 at the back that no longer works for us (like we say yesterday, we end up back 5 and don’t get numbers forward)

is he overly loyal or will he bring in the new blood.

you saw what happened when the dons finally changed it up, we changed formation, and surprise, it got better. Can Clarke and Scotland do the same?

Got very little interest in the euros but watched the highlights of Croatia Italy, fun seeing two attacking teams. That’s Croatia on 2 points, certain we’d have advanced with a win yesterday and won’t be surprised if Hungary advance with 3 points.

Gutted that we played more or less 5 at the back the entire tournament. Awful attacking play with horrible tactics. What a missed opportunity.

Four groups complete and only one third placed team with more than 3 points. Gutted, what a missed opportunity.

8 hours ago, OrlandoDon said:

Four groups complete and only one third placed team with more than 3 points. Gutted, what a missed opportunity.

We were always going through with four points. Slovenia have already qualified on three, having a better goal difference than Albania and with Croatia on two points. Last night's results means Croatia are out, and they finished on two points with a better goal difference than us, so that will be used to suggest that Clarke's Calderwoodesque finish to the match was justified, ignoring the previous thirty minutes where he refused to make a sub to attempt to win the game.

Callum McGregor retires from International football.

Opens up space for Ferguson once fit. 

1 hour ago, Jute said:

Callum McGregor retires from International football.

Opens up space for Ferguson once fit. 

That was exactly my thought as well when I heard it 👍

Keeper is an issue as well. Clark is injured and Kelly not playing. With Killie dropping McCrorie we will probably have to go with Gordon. At Right back McCrorie is injured again and Ralston not playing we are struggling there. As you say can see Barron being called up along with Gauld. Think it will be too soon for Nisbet this time around. 
 

Surely not even Clarke is stubborn enough to pick players who are without clubs. 

55 minutes ago, Jute said:

Keeper is an issue as well. Clark is injured and Kelly not playing. With Killie dropping McCrorie we will probably have to go with Gordon. At Right back McCrorie is injured again and Ralston not playing we are struggling there. As you say can see Barron being called up along with Gauld. Think it will be too soon for Nisbet this time around. 
 

Surely not even Clarke is stubborn enough to pick players who are without clubs. 

Deleted my post while multitasking. Hope we ditch 3 at the back and either go 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3. Wonder if Ramsay gets a right back call up? Not by any means a set fixture at Wigan but a decent right back on his day. Possibly souttar and McKenna in the middle, Robertson at left back. Don’t know if we have a right mid, Lewis Morgan maybe. Forrest is a step backwards imho but possibly a short term fix. Possibly Barron and McLean at center mid and christie on the left. Mcginn behind adams. Very lightweight.

bench with a number of guys who aren’t playing much at the moment, shankland (off form?), Conroy, ralston, porteous, Hanley, recall for mcburnie, Gauld, dykes….is doak fit?

we are lacking talent…

 

I assume Max Johnston will be right back. Started the last two for Sturm Gratz. A serious lack of forward planning from Clarke, guys like Barron and Johnston should have been with the squad in the summer. He's not offered any bedding on or transition for this campaign. Needs to react quickly and establish a good squad of guys for the next few years. The only ageing player I'm not concerned about is Gordon. 

8 hours ago, OrlandoDon said:

Deleted my post while multitasking. Hope we ditch 3 at the back and either go 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3. Wonder if Ramsay gets a right back call up? Not by any means a set fixture at Wigan but a decent right back on his day. Possibly souttar and McKenna in the middle, Robertson at left back. Don’t know if we have a right mid, Lewis Morgan maybe. Forrest is a step backwards imho but possibly a short term fix. Possibly Barron and McLean at center mid and christie on the left. Mcginn behind adams. Very lightweight.

bench with a number of guys who aren’t playing much at the moment, shankland (off form?), Conroy, ralston, porteous, Hanley, recall for mcburnie, Gauld, dykes….is doak fit?

we are lacking talent…

 

BIlly Gilmour is a stick-on for centre mid and McTominay will be there as well. Christie plays in a deeper role for Bournemouth these days than Clarke tends to use him so that's probably the area of the team we've got the least to worry about.

It's time to say thanks and cheerio to the likes of McLean and Hanley.

8 hours ago, OrlandoDon said:

porteous

 

8 hours ago, OrlandoDon said:

we are lacking talent…

I don't care how lacking in talent we are, I hope porteous never plays in a Scotland shirt ever again 

1 hour ago, Reekie_Red said:

 

I don't care how lacking in talent we are, I hope porteous never plays in a Scotland shirt ever again 

Why? He's been good for Scotland, generally speaking. The red card wasn't something that can be blamed entirely on Porteous either, the rest of the defence and midfield went completely missing and he threw himself at the block. It was a rash challenge as a result of chaotic defending, nothing more, nothing less. He got his punishment.

Squads out.

Too many players in there who are not playing for their teams. Good to see Gauld in. 

20 minutes ago, Jute said:

Squads out.

Too many players in there who are not playing for their teams. Good to see Gauld in. 

It's not too bad. It's early in the season, and we're still in the transfer window, so some guys will maybe find new teams. If anyone, like Dykes, has had an injury you'd expect them to have less minutes under their belts at this point. The others will hopefully break in at some point. Good to see the young lads like Johnston, Doak and Forrest getting an opportunity.

Nice to see the Scottish FA JD Performance School being highly productive.

1 hour ago, Slim said:

Nice to see the Scottish FA JD Performance School being highly productive.

Did think that although I think the oldest lads for that programme will be 24 so maybe a bit unfair to be critical yet. 

1 hour ago, Jute said:

Did think that although I think the oldest lads for that programme will be 24 so maybe a bit unfair to be critical yet. 

Fairly certain Gilmour, Paterson, Ramsay and Barron all came through the JD pish. 

2 hours ago, RicoS321 said:

Fairly certain Gilmour, Paterson, Ramsay and Barron all came through the JD pish. 

Gilmour is shown as coming through it. Sure Paterson did as well. 

2 hours ago, Jute said:

Gilmour is shown as coming through it.

Aye, I originally wrote him and Hickey, but deleted the wrong name. Hickey was the other one I meant. Think he came through it 

12 hours ago, Jute said:

Squads out.

Too many players in there who are not playing for their teams. Good to see Gauld in. 

Yup. Partly the reason I thought we’d see Barron in the squad. Bit surprised he’s not.

11 hours ago, RicoS321 said:

Aye, I originally wrote him and Hickey, but deleted the wrong name. Hickey was the other one I meant. Think he came through it 

8 in the U21 squad.

Probably more accurate reflection of the performance schools. Would still expect it to produce more than third of squad. 

On 27/08/2024 at 21:17, RicoS321 said:

Why? He's been good for Scotland, generally speaking. The red card wasn't something that can be blamed entirely on Porteous either, the rest of the defence and midfield went completely missing and he threw himself at the block. It was a rash challenge as a result of chaotic defending, nothing more, nothing less. He got his punishment.

He was an absolute cheat for Hibs against us numerous times. I think it was Robson who was brave enough to question the intent of some of Porteous' decisions on the field, decisions deliberately intended to trick refs. And sure enough last time he faced us he pulled a penalty out of nothing