Loirston chosen for new stadium

Aberdeen FC set to move

EXCLUSIVE

By Charlie Allan

 

Published: 03/04/2009

 

THE Evening Express can today reveal the preferred location for Aberdeen’s new community stadium.

 

The £38 million community facility, which will become home to Aberdeen FC, will be at Loirston Loch in the south of the city.

 

It follows a year-long series of feasibility studies to decide if the site at Nigg would be the best location for the stadium.

 

The report on the recommendation of the Nigg site will now go out to consultation and will be referred to the council’s policy and strategy committee on April 28.

 

A number of other potential sites across the city, including one at King’s Links, were examined by Aberdeen City Council and Aberdeen FC and it was decided all of them were unsuitable.

 

Aberdeen FC managing director Duncan Fraser, who is also a member of the Arena Project Advisory and Monitoring Board created to advise of the best site and stadium design, said: “These recommendations have still to be approved and at the appropriate time, there will be a full consultation process with fans.

 

“Their feedback will be important.â€

 

For more on this story, and an exclusive image of the new arena, pick up today’s Evening Express or check back later

surprised to see the ny times quoted on here after their defamatory article about the fans they published following the hun game.

 

they repeated a bitter wee dick's false claims that we were singing about the ibrox disaster. cunts.

Ian Thomson is a New York-based journalist and former Aberdeen season-ticket holder who attended his first game at Pittodrie in April 1982.

 

 

 

Glory hunter

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-16970739?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

 

Several offers received for Aberdeen's Pittodrie Stadium

 

 

Aberdeen FC's move to a new stadium has moved a step closer with the announcement that several offers have been received for Pittodrie.

 

The ground was put on the market after outline planning permission for 350 homes on the site was secured.

 

The club says the sale of the 13.7-acre Pittodrie site is key to securing the £38m needed to build a new stadium, capable of holding about 21,000 fans.

 

Consultants CBRE say they are now in discussions with several bidders.

 

The new stadium would be at Loirston Loch on the southern outskirts of the city.

 

It is hoped the stadium - which is planned to be an iconic landmark - could be ready for the 2013/14 season.

Is who bids for these things generally kept a secret?

Yes.

Yes.

 

me no likey

It is commercially sensitive so fair enough. You don't like eating meat or fish so frankly your opinion is bollocks,

It is commercially sensitive so fair enough. You don't like eating meat or fish so frankly your opinion is bollocks,

 

So long as none of us like huns or tims, aberdeen is a broad enough church to accommodate those who enjoy munching cow anus and pig foreskin, as well as those who don't.

So long as none of us like huns or tims, aberdeen is a broad enough church to accommodate those who enjoy munching cow anus and pig foreskin, as well as those who don't.

 

Hooter to tooter!

So long as none of us like huns or tims, aberdeen is a broad enough church to accommodate those who enjoy munching cow anus and pig foreskin, as well as those who don't.

 

Dead or alive?

Dons’ dream move to new home faces delay

By Ryan Crighton

Published: 19/03/2012

Bookmark with:

More Pictures

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>

VISION OF THE FUTURE: An artist’s impression of the Dons stadium planned for Loirston Loch

ABERDEEN FC’s dream move to a new £38million stadium is on the verge of stalling – because the club has yet to strike a deal for the land where it is to be built.

The Scottish Premier League side has not taken control of the Loirston Loch site, despite club chairman Stewart Milne saying work would begin next month. The club said last night talks were “still progressing” but conceded the project could face a delay.

The Dons have planning permission to build a 21,000-capacity arena at Loirston and want to have it ready for the 2013-14 season.

For the full story, pick up a copy of today’s Press and Journal or read our digital edition now

http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/2686492

 

see AWPR and 3rd Don Crossing

Is anybody actually surprised by this?

Is anybody actually surprised by this?

 

That there a piece of land in Aberdeen that Stewarty doesn't already own?!

Appreciate that I am coming to this late but I am surprised that the opposition to moving from Pittodrie is not more organised and vocal, even at this stage of the proposed move.

 

The proposed move would almost certainly see Aberdeen FC go into administration or at worst see the club liquidated.

 

Look at the evidence.

 

No club has ever successfully moved in Scotland. Of those that have, Airdrieonians, Clyde and Clydebank were liquidated and the other Livingston has been in administration more than once.

 

No convincing case has been made to support the move whilst there is a huge amount of evidence that demonstrates that it is the wrong move, at the wrong time and in the wrong place. It needs to be stopped.

 

The primary issue here is that football clubs like Aberdeen have built their support and the affinity of fans over a long period of time. That affinity is passed down through generation and generation. For many there is no other rationale for supporting Aberdeen other than the fact that it is Aberdeen FC and their home is Pittodrie. For many, moving to Loirston Loch will break that bond forever. Stewart Milne in his presentation to the planning committee claimed that the pull of Pittodrie was purely emotive and not based on facts. Of course it’s about emotion, that’s why we support Aberdeen FC. If it was about the facts we wouldn’t support the club.

 

The business case does not stack up. There is plenty of evidence from England that demonstrates that moving to a new stadium is nothing other than ego driven financial recklessness. Doncaster, Southampton, Derby, Coventry, Oxford, Darlington, Leicester and Huddersfield Town have all been in administration since building a new stadium. That is despite many of those clubs earning tens of millions more than Aberdeen FC do from television. Those clubs couldn’t service the debt from a new stadium with far higher incomes and attendances, why is Aberdeen FC going to be any different when the stadium costs will be similar whilst our turnover is that of a League One side.

 

Those clubs that have built new stadiums that haven’t been in administration have all had the backing of either very wealthy benefactors (Reading, Stoke City, Middlesbrough or Wigan) or have had substantial financial support from a local authority to build the stadium (Swansea, Manchester City).

 

The report produced by CBRE in October 2010 outlining the rationale for the move acknowledges that no Business Case for a redevelopment of Pittodrie was ever undertaken due to the perceived disadvantages of the current site. The primary disadvantages seem to be that the site is constrained and would also not be able to accommodate ancillary facilities. There are plenty of examples of constrained sites being successfully redeveloped all over the UK and Europe as well as examples of successful stadiums that do not have ancillary facilities. I am convinced also that there are plenty of architects who could have produced a long term master plan for the redevelopment of Pittodrie that was both affordable and met UEFA requirements.

 

The location is wrong. Research published in FC Business magazine last year demonstrates that the further a club moves from its original home, the less successful it is in terms of attendances and league position. Of those clubs that have relocated in England in the last 20 years only Manchester City and Middlesboro have won a trophy since moving. Arsenal has not won a trophy in the 6 years since they moved to the Emirates whilst Bolton Wanderers is £93bn in debt despite having enjoyed many years of huge TV revenues. The move by Aberdeen would in distance terms exceed the distance moved by many of those clubs substantially. Only a handful of clubs have moved further, Coventry City who are about to be relegated to League One after their move to their edge of town Ricoh Arena, Oxford United who were relegated to the Conference a year after administration after moving to their edge of town Kassam Stadium, Colchester United whose attendances have worsened after moving to their edge of town Weston Homes Community Stadium and (ahem) Manchester City who have spent more money than most clubs will spend in a lifetime for not very much in return.

 

The recent experiences of many professional sports clubs in the United States should also be considered. During the last 10 years many multi-purpose venues in edge of town locations have been demolished and smaller more intimate venues for the sole use of typically Major League Baseball sides have been built. This has been the case in Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Minneapolis and St Louis with the major criticism of the previous venues being that many of them were indistinguishable from each other and never established any character of their own. The proposed design for Loirston Loch is very similar to that for the stadiums built in recent years in Middlesbrough, Derby, Stoke, Leicester, Cardiff, Reading and Southampton and it is hard to see how it will develop the same sort of character that Pittodrie has or had. This may not seem important now but academic study has shown that the ability of a football stadium to generate memories and myths is a significant part of what attracts fans over a sustained period of time as opposed to relying on the novelty of a new stadium to attract new and existing fans in the short term.

 

The move to Loirston Loch is therefore going against a trend which has demonstrated that out of town sites do not work and that sports stadiums need to be integrated within the communities they represent. The proposed location for the new stadium surrounded as it is by major roads and out of town retail parks will never engender the same sort of feelings or affinity in the Aberdeen support that Pittodrie does with its unique beachside location. It will also in practical terms be inaccessible to anyone who does not own a car and will be seen in time as no more important to the Aberdeen public as an out of town cinema or a supermarket is now.

 

There is recognition now that football clubs are part of the fabric of urban life and need to play a part in the economic well being of an area. Stewart Milne on the one hand emphasises the economic importance of the club to the city but on the other hand is proposing a move which will impact financially on the businesses that benefit from Pittodrie and is designing a venue that means fans won't even have to leave the confines of the arena to eat and drink. The proposed football quarter in Liverpool provides an example of how this can be realised and demonstrates how fan’s representatives can drive that vision. It recognises the value of the current locations of Liverpool and Everton football clubs and how important they are to the local community.

 

Stewart Milne has presided over the least successful period in our post war history. The primary reason for not considering a redevelopment of Pittodrie is to sell it for redevelopment and to provide an opportunity for Stewart Milne Homes to do land deals at both Pittodrie and Loirston Loch. Those deals will allegedly enable the development at Loirston Loch but there is a clear conflict of interest in the two roles that Stewart Milne holds. Who benefits more? SMG or AFC?

 

It is not too late to stop the move. The recent events at Rangers FC and the long term consequences of them for Scottish football as well as the possibility of safe standing being introduced are material considerations which will affect the assumptions that underpin the (unseen) business case.

 

To stop Loirston Loch involves stopping Stewart Milne. He has said himself that he wants Loirston to be his legacy to the club. It will be indeed be a legacy but one which could see the demise of Aberdeen FC. Does the Aberdeen support want to stop Stewart Milne though? It might involve some short term pain. However, do we want to be saddled at best with a white elephant in the wrong place that flies in the face of best practice in stadium redevelopment in the rest of the world or at worst long term financial ruin.

No club has ever successfully moved in Scotland. Of those that have, Airdrieonians, Clyde and Clydebank were liquidated and the other Livingston has been in administration more than once.

Clydebank didnt move by choice. They were in dire financial straits and then their chairmen decided to prematurely sell the stadium before even getting together an idea for a new stadium. Club was then forced to play in Dumbarton (not too bad) and then Greenock (40mile round trip with awkward public transport links and the pull f the old firm is pretty much death for most small clubs). As a matter of fact they had relocated 5 times prior to their nomad years.

 

Airdrionians eventually moved less than a mile to their new stadium. They were fucked over by a ludicrous planning application and then North Lanarkshire councils plannind dept, very poor club management in deciding to sell Broomfield and allow it to be turned into a supermarket before they had final designs for a new stadium so they had to play 8 miles away for 4 seasons (poor public transport links and the pull of the old firm picked off the supporters) all the while spending the money they got from morrisons on rent etc, and finally that wonderful 10000 seat rule (a massive factor in the financial problems of many clubs). They then also had a board falling out with each other and fell into the trap of the bosman = players are free to sign but their wages cost more than our turnover.

 

Clyde were forced to leave shawfield in 1986 after it was sold by the greyhound association and then spent 8 years groundsharing (shawfield is less than a mile from celtic park anyway. 8 years of fans being picked off by the bigger clubs in the city). Getting the chance to move to a new town with no professional sports team and a new stadium to rent was a no brainer given the financial situation of football after the bosman ruling. Unfortunately the stadium is in the middle of nowhere with poor public transport links and 'franchises' just dont work in the UK. Football fans have loyalties and Cumbernaulds population would already have being picked off by other clubs.

 

Meadowbank Thistle/ Livingston needed to move if they were ever going to be a success. It is to typical of scottish football that the SFA decided to allow another Edinburgh team in to the league instead of Inverness thistle back in 1974. I suspect pressure to find a use for Meadowbank stadium to stop it falling apart was a big factor. Even worse that you can see Easter Road from Meadowbank. Id say to go from 3rd division to 3rd place in the SPL in 6 years and win the league cup in 2004 is pretty massive success for a new club. However once again financial mismanagement, poor board decisions, dodgy italian owners, a large chunk of their fans being kids with free tickets in a stadium too large (10000 seat rule again) and of course, like Cumbernauld, Livingstons population would already have set their loyalties (hibs, hearts, Falkirk, the old firm, Fergie led aberdeen, maclean lead Arabs etc) all fucked them over.

 

 

Far as im aware the whole new stadium requires fund from selling pittodrie and at no point is it the plan of our board (who have been penny pinching for best part of 20years) to leave pittodrie before we have a new stadium to play in.

 

You also have missed out St mirren who sold off Love street to Tesco, and with the cash built a new stadium with training facilities and more importantly wiped out their debts.

 

The primary issue here is that football clubs like Aberdeen have built their support and the affinity of fans over a long period of time. That affinity is passed down through generation and generation. For many there is no other rationale for supporting Aberdeen other than the fact that it is Aberdeen FC and their home is Pittodrie. For many, moving to Loirston Loch will break that bond forever. Stewart Milne in his presentation to the planning committee claimed that the pull of Pittodrie was purely emotive and not based on facts. Of course it’s about emotion, that’s why we support Aberdeen FC. If it was about the facts we wouldn’t support the club.

 

If all it takes for fans to abandon the club is moving 3miles across the city then we have more deepset problems that need to be addressed.

 

The business case does not stack up. There is plenty of evidence from England that demonstrates that moving to a new stadium is nothing other than ego driven financial recklessness. Doncaster, Southampton, Derby, Coventry, Oxford, Darlington, Leicester and Huddersfield Town have all been in administration since building a new stadium. That is despite many of those clubs earning tens of millions more than Aberdeen FC do from television. Those clubs couldn’t service the debt from a new stadium with far higher incomes and attendances, why is Aberdeen FC going to be any different when the stadium costs will be similar whilst our turnover is that of a League One side.

 

Those clubs that have built new stadiums that haven’t been in administration have all had the backing of either very wealthy benefactors (Reading, Stoke City, Middlesbrough or Wigan) or have had substantial financial support from a local authority to build the stadium (Swansea, Manchester City).

 

Leeds Road, Belle Vue, the Manor Ground, Elm Park were falling apart. The Taylor report and Bradford city disaster put severe safety restrictions reducing their capacities. Too expensive to redevelop so sell to private developers for lots of money and use that to build a new stadium

 

The Dell, Filbert Street, Baseball ground, Victoria Ground, Highfield road, Vetch field, Ayresome park were all boxed in (like Pittodrie is) and their restricted capacities (taylor report and bradford) were hindering their clubs ability to compete financially in premiership and even the championship (rivals getting 25000+ but they were stuck with less than 20000 capacity. Unfortunately failing to gain promotion back to the premiership straight away is financial suicide for clubs who have spent many years using the Sky Millions. Administration in England is a whole different ball game to scotland particularly if yer new stadium happens to be finished just in time for you to be relegated or your board decided to spend ITV digital tv cash and other money you dont have trying to get premiership football (Cardiff, Bristol City are on the brink due to failure to reach the 'promised land'

 

Wigan is another Blackburn and potentally a gretna - always been a rugby league town. Never sell out the JJB even when playing Man united etc. Its only a matter of time.

 

The report produced by CBRE in October 2010 outlining the rationale for the move acknowledges that no Business Case for a redevelopment of Pittodrie was ever undertaken due to the perceived disadvantages of the current site. The primary disadvantages seem to be that the site is constrained and would also not be able to accommodate ancillary facilities. There are plenty of examples of constrained sites being successfully redeveloped all over the UK and Europe as well as examples of successful stadiums that do not have ancillary facilities. I am convinced also that there are plenty of architects who could have produced a long term master plan for the redevelopment of Pittodrie that was both affordable and met UEFA requirements.

 

I want you to list these successfully redeveloped constrained sites.

I refuse to once again go over the regulations and requirements for new stands and stadiums and the planning issues of trying to work around public roads. There is also the factor of MONEY. Only way we can afford to redevelop pittodrie is a) a nutter millionaire decided to throw away their money on us, b) we beg the bank to loan us a few more million (at massive interest), or c) a dodgy insurance job. Of course the big factor is the capacity would be cut in half which might not be such a bad thing for atmosphere given we seem to be averaging less than 10000 these days but spending all that cash to restrict your money making capacity is financial suicide.

 

The location is wrong. Research published in FC Business magazine last year demonstrates that the further a club moves from its original home, the less successful it is in terms of attendances and league position. Of those clubs that have relocated in England in the last 20 years only Manchester City and Middlesboro have won a trophy since moving. Arsenal has not won a trophy in the 6 years since they moved to the Emirates whilst Bolton Wanderers is £93bn in debt despite having enjoyed many years of huge TV revenues. The move by Aberdeen would in distance terms exceed the distance moved by many of those clubs substantially. Only a handful of clubs have moved further, Coventry City who are about to be relegated to League One after their move to their edge of town Ricoh Arena, Oxford United who were relegated to the Conference a year after administration after moving to their edge of town Kassam Stadium, Colchester United whose attendances have worsened after moving to their edge of town Weston Homes Community Stadium and (ahem) Manchester City who have spent more money than most clubs will spend in a lifetime for not very much in return.

 

See my previous comments regarding Coventry & Oxford.

For Arsenal see my previous comments about stadiums being in constrained sites. Highburys capacity was down to less than 40000 whilst their big rivals in the North were getting 45-70000.

Arsenal didnt win a trophy between 1993 and 1995. was that the fault of Highbury or Fergie?

Aberdeen havent won a trophy since 1995. Can we blame that on Pittodrie?

Bolton - See Coventry and many other english clubs with stupid boards spending high for small short term gain

 

The recent experiences of many professional sports clubs in the United States should also be considered. During the last 10 years many multi-purpose venues in edge of town locations have been demolished and smaller more intimate venues for the sole use of typically Major League Baseball sides have been built. This has been the case in Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Minneapolis and St Louis with the major criticism of the previous venues being that many of them were indistinguishable from each other and never established any character of their own. The proposed design for Loirston Loch is very similar to that for the stadiums built in recent years in Middlesbrough, Derby, Stoke, Leicester, Cardiff, Reading and Southampton and it is hard to see how it will develop the same sort of character that Pittodrie has or had. This may not seem important now but academic study has shown that the ability of a football stadium to generate memories and myths is a significant part of what attracts fans over a sustained period of time as opposed to relying on the novelty of a new stadium to attract new and existing fans in the short term.

Firstly you cannot compare american franchise based sports to European Football.

However I agree with you regarding boring legoland designed stadiums but personally if anyone refuses to go to a new stadium because it looks boring then they aint interested in the teams on the field. The 'character' of old stadiums is brought about due to redevelopments spaced over many years. Go back in time to when football was new and you will find lots of stadiums identical to each other. One seated stand perhaps designed by Archibald leitch (or ripped off in any case) with 3 sides of large open terracing. As stadiums regulations were updated and fans started asking for a roof over their heads and not having to be less than 5ft tall to sit down (main stand stands at pittodrie, tannadice, dens park, tynecastle etc) the stands were replaced and in many cases this was done with little thought for 'hey maybe we should think about a pattern here.

For me, whatever character was left in pittodrie vanished with the Beach end.

 

The move to Loirston Loch is therefore going against a trend which has demonstrated that out of town sites do not work and that sports stadiums need to be integrated within the communities they represent. The proposed location for the new stadium surrounded as it is by major roads and out of town retail parks will never engender the same sort of feelings or affinity in the Aberdeen support that Pittodrie does with its unique beachside location. It will also in practical terms be inaccessible to anyone who does not own a car and will be seen in time as no more important to the Aberdeen public as an out of town cinema or a supermarket is now.

 

Ill give you this one which is why ive been calling for the old Cove Railway station to be re-opened as part of the plans. Isnt going to happen though.

However the only city centre site large enough for a 20000capacity stadium is now covered by a white elephant shopping mall and new bus station. Football stadiums need space and their isnt much of it going spare in central aberdeen.

 

There is recognition now that football clubs are part of the fabric of urban life and need to play a part in the economic well being of an area. Stewart Milne on the one hand emphasises the economic importance of the club to the city but on the other hand is proposing a move which will impact financially on the businesses that benefit from Pittodrie and is designing a venue that means fans won't even have to leave the confines of the arena to eat and drink. The proposed football quarter in Liverpool provides an example of how this can be realised and demonstrates how fan’s representatives can drive that vision. It recognises the value of the current locations of Liverpool and Everton football clubs and how important they are to the local community.

if yer going to bring this sort of thing up then please use examples similar to aberdeen. 2 of the biggest clubs in Europe in a city twice the size of Aberdeen is not a fair reflection. Footbally loyalty in scotland is out the window anyway given more people leave Aberdeen to watch the old firm than actually go to Pittodrie.

Stewart Milne has presided over the least successful period in our post war history. The primary reason for not considering a redevelopment of Pittodrie is to sell it for redevelopment and to provide an opportunity for Stewart Milne Homes to do land deals at both Pittodrie and Loirston Loch. Those deals will allegedly enable the development at Loirston Loch but there is a clear conflict of interest in the two roles that Stewart Milne holds. Who benefits more? SMG or AFC?

That is your opinion and unfortunately it is shared by many others. Milne is the bogeyman and his tenure has been a massive plan to build flats next to Seaton. YAWN. Are you still going to be bleating on about this if say Cala, or Wimpey, or Barrats outbid SMG for the land?

I want anyone who continues to bring this up to show us all where the money to redevelop pittodrie is going to come from. Are we suddenly going to unearth 10 fraser Fyvies and sell them all for £5million each?

Is milne really the only reason we have been shite for 2 decades?

Bosman removing one of our incomes had no bearing?

Old firm fiddling finances and outspending everyone didnt do anything?

Ill admit he has appointed some shocking managers and decided to give them way too much cash but our players are always paid, He was against the setanta deal and ive yet to read any serious articles where the name aberdeen football club is alongside administration and 'serious financial problems'

 

It is not too late to stop the move. The recent events at Rangers FC and the long term consequences of them for Scottish football as well as the possibility of safe standing being introduced are material considerations which will affect the assumptions that underpin the (unseen) business case.

 

To stop Loirston Loch involves stopping Stewart Milne. He has said himself that he wants Loirston to be his legacy to the club. It will be indeed be a legacy but one which could see the demise of Aberdeen FC. Does the Aberdeen support want to stop Stewart Milne though? It might involve some short term pain. However, do we want to be saddled at best with a white elephant in the wrong place that flies in the face of best practice in stadium redevelopment in the rest of the world or at worst long term financial ruin.

What qualifications do you have to comment on 'best practice in stadium redevelopment' or judging on 'long term financial ruin'

if we dont move will you still be preaching when 5 years form now Pittodrie's capacity is reduced to 16000 because the main stand no longer has a safety certificate? or when large parts of the south stand are closed off for foundation repairs.

 

You also seem to have missed out any reference to training facilities. Are you happy with the current arrangements for City parks and running on the beach?

St Johnstone moved as well. Dunno what their finances are like. They don't seem to get many people in the ground though.

Tom, some good points. I accept that the examples of Clydebank and Airdrieonians might not be representative but the point I am trying to make is that no club in Scotland has relocated successfully. You use the example of Livingston as one of being success. Is a single League Cup win the right price to pay for a very shaky recent past and an uncertain future? The move Aberdeen are making should be about the next 50 years, not the next 5 or 10 years.

 

I've used the examples in England and the USA to illustrate that mistakes have been made and that there is a mass of evidence out there on how to do it and how not to do it. I am not against the relocation of a stadium in principle as long as it does done for the right reasons, that the business case stacks up and that it results in a redeveloped stadium that the fans want, that they can get to as easily if not more easily than the present location and provides a long term sustainable base for the success of Aberdeen FC. I don't think Loirston ticks any of those boxes.

 

The fact that Pittodrie is not fit for purpose is not a valid excuse for the wrong choice at Loirston. Whose fault is it that Pittodrie is crumbling? Milne has been in charge for the bext part of 15 years and on the Board for nearly 20 years. Should he/they have not been planning for incremental improvement to Pittodrie from then, just like all of the other major clubs in Scotland. They haven't because the agenda all along has been to move away. I simply do not accept that Pittodrie is too hemmed in to redevelop successfully. I have no doubt that the brief to the architects from Milne was to come to that conclusion. Has anyone ever seen the evidence for it? If that evidence is so compelling why does he not share it with us? One only has to look at Pittodrie in plan view to see that there is plenty of directions to expand to the north and east. Accepted it may involve some selective compulsory purchase and some co-operation from the City Council but there is certainly nothing insurmountable. Look at the constraints at places like Old Trafford, St Marys, The Hawthorns and Norwich and see how they compare to Pittodrie. I could commission a dozen architects tomorrow to come up with a 5 year masterplan that redeveloped Pittodrie at a price that would stack up better than the financial plan for Loirston. If I had the funds to do so I would.

 

You might correctly ask why Milne doesn't do that. Because it doesn't appeal to his ego, his wish for a legacy, a monument to his reign. He is by nature a housebuilder, a redeveloper. He makes his money from building things. Do you not think he got where he did with a certain amount of ruthlessness. Look at the way he tried to cheat the City Council out of their rightful share of the land deal at Westhill. Why should we trust Stewart Milne anymore than David Murray. They both wanted success for their respective clubs, not for you and me and the fans but to satisfy their own egos. Why should Aberdeen be able to afford a £38m new stadium when numerous clubs with far higher revenue bases have found it difficult to fund such ventures.

 

You mention that Liverpool is not a valid comparison. I think it is a valid comparison as there is no reason why their fans should feel any less or more passionate about their teams than Aberdeen fans do. They are getting involved to try and shape their respective club's future recognising that their strength lies in the community that has supported those clubs for 100+ years.

 

I agree that the club needs better training and academy facilities. First of all, there is no reason why they need to be adjacent to the stadium. The majority of clubs throughout Britain don't have those facilities adjacent to their stadiums. Why have they therefore not been developed elsewhere in the last 15 years? Secondly, the funding for that is uncertain as I understand it is an additional cost to the £38m for the stadium so to use it as a justification for the move is a spurious one.

 

You make a valid point that Aberdeen don't appear to have had any major financial issues in the last 10 years whilst there has been relative turmoil at many other clubs throughout Scotland, England and beyond. Unfortunately, if the club makes this move then there will be a significant financial fallout and Stewart Milne has stated that he does not want to be around for the long term. Who will deal with that financial fallout?

 

I am not one for conspiracy theories and I don't think there is one here. I want a successful future for Aberdeen FC as much as you do. I also accept that something has to change. I just think that the direction Milne is taking us in is the wrong one and that the future of Scottish football is so uncertain at the moment that the Loirston move is too much of a risk, especially when one considers the evidence. The factors that affect Aberdeen are as much about the factors that affect Scottish football generally and until they are clarified than we should at least be putting this development on hold and developing a Plan B.

 

 

 

 

Are you just going to ignore St Mirren and St Johnstone then?

I think Stirling Albion moved aslo.

I think the majority of us are against the move. If there wasn't such apathy towards the team then there might be less towards the move.

Good argument and glad I read it.

I would tend to agree with Tam's analysis over warelywoods but do recognise that his view is widely shared in our support.

I am in favour of the move, although would like to see a new Station at Cove to help with travel.  I can't see why travelling a mile or two to Cove should stop folk from watching Aberdeen, I travelled 150 miles to Glasgow and still go to watch Aberdeen, folk move around Aberdeen and the Shire all the time, does that stop them from travelling to Pittodrie?

If folk really are so opposed to this why, other than the usual doric moan on the www, has there been no opposition to this?

Are you just going to ignore St Mirren and St Johnstone then?

 

TBH be honest I think most people overlook your posts, FJ. 

 

 

Good argument and glad I read it.

I would tend to agree with Tam's analysis over warelywoods but do recognise that his view is widely shared in our support.

I am in favour of the move, although would like to see a new Station at Cove to help with travel.  I can't see why travelling a mile or two to Cove should stop folk from watching Aberdeen, I travelled 150 miles to Glasgow and still go to watch Aberdeen, folk move around Aberdeen and the Shire all the time, does that stop them from travelling to Pittodrie?

If folk really are so opposed to this why, other than the usual doric moan on the www, has there been no opposition to this?

 

 

I'd guess because they believe (rightly or wrongly) that it's required for a brighter financial future in terms of debt.

TBH be honest I think most people overlook your posts, FJ. 

 

Oooooh has someone been slagging Liverpool again?

 

 

St Marys - http://binged.it/HDyoah - Purpose built new stadium in brownbelt site with 3 sides of the stadium surrounded by carparking and a large concourse (like that of the RDS) separating the other side from a public road. Emergency access on all 4 sides

 

Old Trafford - http://binged.it/IKDfr8 - Very rich club able to buy out residents and businesses to clear the area around. Large pedestrian zones/ carparks on 3 sides. Matt Busby way provides access only to the stadium. They however cannot reach an agreement with the railway so they as of yet cannot redevelop the old main stand to increase their capacity to 90000.

 

Carrow Road - http://binged.it/HDz2Vt - all 4 sides of the stadium are pedestrian control areas. No public access roads are impeded on match days and emergency services have full access on all sides.

 

The Hawthorns - http://binged.it/IKEHdf - Slightly tight site but plenty of alternative roads routes and accesses allow them to control Halford lane on match days. Stand on Birmingham road has minimum distance permitted to allow for queuing spectators and still allowed them to increase capacity. Compare that situation to the main stand at pittodrie. And of course - emergency cervice access on all 4 sides.

 

Pittodrie - http://binged.it/IKCnTl

Older aerial view but the development behind the South Stand is now complete.

North is Pittodrie street - A public road providing access to businesses and homes. You cannot permanantly close public roads without providing a replacement route, especially if they encircle large venues which require strict emergency service access. Any new stand at pittodrie brings in the new regulations even if the other 3 dont.

 

Finally you seem to imply that compulsory purchase orders are something you just have to  fill out a form and obtain. For airports, railway lines etc perhaps yes. For private companys wanting to extend? No chance. Take a look at how much Arsenal had to pay out to clear thes site for the Emirates.