Ajja

A pub inside a sports complex sounds like a bad mix with pissed up Dons fans. I'd go for the Old Brewery under the assumption that enough pissed up Dons fans can stop them from having an arsey attitude. Either that or hunt down a pub that have no concern for anything other than raking in cash

Thats my source site! They have a top 50 list for 2009 compiled by committee. There is a mention on their forum saying 'hope that footie lot come on again to do battle'. Made me laugh, wonder who it was and from what site ?

When I wrote this post I had exactly that thought KGB. You are absolutely right, the picture I paint is fairly ideological for sure, it may also be highly unlikely and unrealistic but I think its still worth considering as the 'next level'. One of the problems is that this perceived 'next level' that many of us are hungry for is seen as an ideological one by many. The fanbase lives on a spectrum whose extremes are 'those who see it as our right to expect it' and 'those who believe it out of reach'. Most of us rational fans live in the middle somewhere, although for many of us its more a sliding scale that we shoot back and forward along from Saturday to Saturday! If we could achieve the form that I described then you are right, we would probably be dominant in the domestic game in terms of 'the rest'. This would be largely down to the poor quality and inconsistency of the other teams. I would suggest that supports my definition of the next level as the dominant 3rd team in Scotland would be a level ahead of where we are now ?

There are two debates that underpin this discussion (and so may others) as far as I see it. There is the 'knee jerk debate' that comes around and around as we drift from positive to negative results. I have some sympathy with this debate although not because I am one for the hysteria that surrounds a bad result. I prefer to take a step back and look at the wider picture. However, we do go through these cyclical peaks and troughs in our performance to the extent that it is extremely frustrating. Then there is the 'reasonable expectation' debate. I also sympathise with this position as it provides fertile ground for a more pragmatic and sensible discussion about our fortunes and allows for a reasoned view rather than a hysterical one. However, it often finds itself populated by claims that 'things are so much better than they were' so we should be satisfied with what we have. Or that 'we could not get any better in terms of management'. I'm not so comfortable with that view and I do believe there is an inherent flaw in our squad management that brings about the sort of attitude in games that we witnessed yesterday. I'm all for pragmatism and realism but there must be something that could be done to avoid the regularity with which we dip to such awful form that we throw away a lot of the hard work that has been done previously. If I was to have a go at defining the 'next level' I would tend to go for a description of consistently good football that brought a healthy balance between being exciting to watch but delivering results to allow us to challenge for the honours that are realistically in our sights. I don't think we are far from achieving this, its the consistency aspect that we lack. I'd hate to see us try to be Hibs or Falkirk in terms of playing Brazilian-esque football and going nowhere but there should be a balanced position that would see us attracting fans to watch us and challenging at the top of the Scottish game (exc the English & Irish input).

Probably because they are on Donstalk posting instead of getting behind the team

What about Steve Jobs ? Did someone ask for him before me ? I don't see him in the updated list.

Yes, lets bring in an old carthorse and disrupt our team just at the point where it is finally getting itself organised into a unit. A stellar idea

Agreed. The combination of Lee Miller's attitude and him 'arriving at a big club' would signal slippers and cigars like you have never seen. He would make no effort to progress as there would be little perceived reward in self-improvement.

Damn right, those aging 60's killers are a shoe in for death. Susan was given 6 months to live in June last year so I'm hoping for an early score to settle the nerves. I'd avoid Sharon. He is technically dead in hospital but for political reasons they are keeping him alive. I had lined up Seve and Steve Jobs but Jay has either got someone else who got in before me and is waiting to update the list or he is being a lazy bastard. Let the battle commence

That's a damn fine selection, you might have it wrapped up by February

They will try to rip us off with a shitty bid as they have no respect for SPL teams ability to hold onto players and they have very little cash.

I'm feeling good about my line up for this year, time to convert a runners up spot to the title in 2009. Padre may beat us to it though if he is allowed to cover the bases as wide as this:

I think that runners up spot gets in if OF win it but they are relegated to N4 position with N3 and N4 moving forward one place in terms of entry stage. In the event of an OF final I suspect that 5th place would then get entry behind N3 & 4

While I agree this is a possibility its not necessarily the case that this would happen automatically. There are other forces that operate in the Scottish game beyond Glasgow. Its also possible that you would have a media which became less interested in the OF competing with fairly pedestrian European sides in a pretty one dimensional league set up. This might actually lead to more focus, interest and resource being put on the more cut throat SPL that would emerge. For fans, following the OF would become very expensive and being a fan of either would provide very little in the way of connectivity with the rest of the Scottish footballing public. Despite what they say, OF fans love being top dogs in Scotland and their fans love the bragging rights, however 'uncompetitive' our game is. This might lead to less youngsters showing interest in teams who they can't quite connect with and choosing to support a local team in a league where honours could be won. It may be a little naive to think so but I don't think our game would die in the way you suggest.

Thats true there has been a tightening of capacity which can often lead to a better experience for anyone entering Helen Mirren's arena. The surface looks better too although it may bald quickly through winter.

No-one likes us, we don't pay our fares

For me, the thing to consider here is the balance between money going into football and money being taken out. It just doesn't add up. I'd be surprised if the TV money being thrown around these days lasts much longer to be honest. Media companies are not insulated from the global economic changes that are taking place. The huge resources that are being pumped into football are not sustainable in my opinion. There will be a major awakening for most major leagues in Europe coming within the next 3-5 years. Following that will be a sizemic shift in wages for players and the footballing landscape will be very very different. The Scottish league doesn't bring in enormous resource from TV anyway so will have a lot less distance to fall. We will inevitably find ourselves more lightly resourced but I'm not convinced that the OF are singlehandedly responsible for drawing that resource. I believe a more competitive league with a genuine success at the end of it that most clubs could realistically attain would see an enlivened SPL at least. Going to games reasonably regularly, I would say that I have grown used to (and probably enjoy more) the atmosphere at a game with between 6,000 and 15,000. The days out where you 'mingle' with 50,000 OF fans are ones I avoid and do not miss at all. I agree our league would have less international recognition and respect and would therefor slip off the world stage to an extent but are we not going that way anyway ? I'm not terribly interested in being considered a super-power in footballing terms if the cost of this is an oligopoly of the countries major trophy season after season. I'd honestly rather watch Aberdeen in a slightly less quality footballing environment with the chance to see us win titles and genuinely competing at the top of the game.

Might be more like 'nobody likes us, we're not there'

I'm thinking Helen Mirren would look better up top than down below. I'd hate to be in there trying to push your way up. Its always hard to get your way out of such a hole when resources have dried up and the stability around you has fallen away. One wrong move and you could easily see a major flop and then you are in danger of something giving way.

Quite happy for them to get it as I think we work better under the radar but I'd be a little wary of blowing Helen Mirren's trumpet too loudly

I think a flu outbreak might not be a bad thing. I have been pleasantly surprised by our football when we have been apparently weakened in recent seasons

I would say that having watched the highlights I agree that the red card was a bit harsh and if either of the players made any move (and it was very very slight) to 'headbutt' it was Miller. That said if your players are going to rampage around the park like wild animals and your club is going to take a combatitive stance on anything and everything then match officials are only going to view you one way. FOr sure, kicking doors in and swinging punches at wee boys in the tunnel are not going to change that view. Hearts are developing a persecution complex right now that Celtic fans would be proud of.

If Smith doesn't have the flu we might have to play him. Hopefully on Saturday we might see some of these promising youth players we are amassing with reckless abandon

Anyone any thoughts on drinking holes ?

Agreed. However, this thread is about our strikers and I'm still not convinced its anything other than a poor season for them again. Hope to see that turn around in January