Author Topic: New stadium thread  (Read 289840 times)

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Offline manc_don

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Re: New stadium thread
« Reply #2640 on: January 19, 2020, 09:40:41 PM »
Since its gone a bit quiet on the new stadium front here is a video of Brentford's new stadium which they will share with London Irish Rugby club . Supposed to be finished about March and have a capacity just over 17000 (About 5000 more than their old ground).



im hoping to go see a game at their old ground before they move at the end of the season.

We looked at this one when we were designing AFC wimbledon's. I think it's turned out better than their visuals but it's a sad state of affairs that they have to have multicoloured seats to try and pretend it's busy for TV  ::)

Seems to be being built at the same time as the surrounding housing, so seems to be delivered in the same manner as AFC. Any idea of who it is Tom?  I could only find passing reference to Ballymore and Wilmott Dixon with another company called EcoWorld seeming to have taken over the latter.

Always wanted to go to griffin park, looked like a nice ground.

Offline RicoS321

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Re: New stadium thread
« Reply #2641 on: January 19, 2020, 11:04:31 PM »
What are they thinking about? Isn't there a field in the middle of fucking nowhere they can put it?

Offline Panda

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Re: New stadium thread
« Reply #2642 on: January 21, 2020, 02:30:50 AM »
What are they thinking about? Isn't there a field in the middle of fucking nowhere they can put it?

I know you're being sarcastic, but the location of Kingsford has never really bothered me. I'd have preferred Loirston, but Kingsford really isn't Outer Mongolia.

But my fear is we build a small, shit, basic looking stadium - something that we would have if we ever redeveloped Pittodrie. And funnily enough, that appears to be what Brentford are putting together.

Online Ten Caat

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Re: New stadium thread
« Reply #2643 on: January 21, 2020, 10:05:00 AM »
I wouldn't say that the new Brentford ground is "basic". I'd call it "quirky". The difference that they have compared to what we will have is that their ground is very much constrained by space, being built in a metropolitan area surrounded by buildings and a railway. I may have missed it on the video but don't recall seeing the cost mentioned. Even looking on Wiki, all it says is that the ground it is being built on was bought from Barratt Homes. Land in London is extortionate so it really wouldn't surprise me if the final bill for it comes in at more than £100million.

We have the distinct advantage of having no real constraints on size. As for location, yes I agree Loirston would have been preferable but Kingsford is perfectly acceptable. Thousands of our support travel more than 8 miles already to reach Pittodrie and I suspect for every supporter that is inconvenienced by the move, at least one other will find it much more convenient to get to. I trust Cormack in a way that I didn't trust wiggy, so if he says the move is necessary then I accept that as fact. It did concern me that alongside the mooted safe standing area, that the plans may mean a reduced capacity to 17.5k as opposed to 20k. But given our average attendance, I can see why the board might well go for that. We can't even sell out for games against the arse cheeks nowadays...even if the game isn't broadcast live on telly.

Offline rocket_scientist

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Re: New stadium thread
« Reply #2644 on: January 21, 2020, 10:25:26 AM »
But my fear is we build a small, shit, basic looking stadium - something that we would have if we ever redeveloped Pittodrie.

30 years ago, the previous chairman planned to redevelop Pittodrie and paid for the RDS, the first stage of that modernisation plan. That wasn't a small shit basic structure and there was room around the stadium to complete his vision.

The man he paid to build the RDS saw the weakness of the Gordons-educated, silver-spooned, chairman-by-succession and wormed his way onto the board. The original vision was ripped up and the new chairman proposed relocation to Kingswells within 5 years of the RDS being opened.

A quarter of a century will have elapsed between Milne's radical proposal in the second half of the 90's and the new stadium being built but from a cost basis alone, from common sense even, there was no logical reason to acquire new land and build new when we already had a spiritual home and the opportunity to modernise the rest of it, having already completed one end.

When you support Kingsford and you use phrases like you would have preferred another location and "my fear is..." then you are trying too hard to not come across as the stooge and the apologist that you are. Yes the ship has sailed with regard to the original redevelopment vision of over THIRTY YEARS AGO. The worm saw to that by not objecting to/ facilitating the building around Pittodrie but history cannot be revised. Some posters aren't old enough to know the history. Posters like you leave a bad smell because you continuously ignore and/or revise history to support the current manager and the newly-departed chairman without knowing or anticipating the future. Yes we must always make the best of a bad situation. Being blind to how the situation got bad however is to deny truth and the path Aberdeen America FC is on is a poisoned one and it can't possibly work without customer-approval. Since the majority of the old customers are against the agenda-that-Milne-built, the club needs to find brand new customers for it to be viable and they don't exist.
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Offline RicoS321

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Re: New stadium thread
« Reply #2645 on: January 21, 2020, 11:39:56 AM »
I know you're being sarcastic, but the location of Kingsford has never really bothered me. I'd have preferred Loirston, but Kingsford really isn't Outer Mongolia.

But my fear is we build a small, shit, basic looking stadium - something that we would have if we ever redeveloped Pittodrie. And funnily enough, that appears to be what Brentford are putting together.

Why? It's a fucking building for housing fitba fans. It'll be dated within a decade like any Stewart Milne build, because it'll have the plasticky panels that are the current fashion that everyone will think is trendy but don't stand the test of time.

Which is exactly the issue with westhill. If you can't walk to it, then it is outer Mongolia. 1.3 miles from the city centre, means that every single route of public service in the north east serves pittodrie. Westhill is served by a handful of busses. It's a 20th century idea and a fucking awful business decision. When the focus of anyone who has a brain is to reduce car travel, we build something that can only be accessed by car. It doesn't form part of a city development, or future growth plans. It's illiterate, backward thinking. To move your business from the heart of the infrastructure is the most ridiculous and short term move, to the extent that you have to conclude that the current and previous chairmen have no interest in the 50-100 year future of the club. The fans should instinctively no better.

Ten years after it's built, when we're playing the mid-table clash against the fifth team in the Danish league as part of the third tier extended European league, the crowds will begin to turn away, realising it was all just a plastic, manufactured, fakeness.

Offline Panda

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Re: New stadium thread
« Reply #2646 on: January 21, 2020, 12:25:21 PM »
I wouldn't say that the new Brentford ground is "basic". I'd call it "quirky". The difference that they have compared to what we will have is that their ground is very much constrained by space, being built in a metropolitan area surrounded by buildings and a railway. I may have missed it on the video but don't recall seeing the cost mentioned. Even looking on Wiki, all it says is that the ground it is being built on was bought from Barratt Homes. Land in London is extortionate so it really wouldn't surprise me if the final bill for it comes in at more than £100million.

We have the distinct advantage of having no real constraints on size. As for location, yes I agree Loirston would have been preferable but Kingsford is perfectly acceptable. Thousands of our support travel more than 8 miles already to reach Pittodrie and I suspect for every supporter that is inconvenienced by the move, at least one other will find it much more convenient to get to. I trust Cormack in a way that I didn't trust wiggy, so if he says the move is necessary then I accept that as fact. It did concern me that alongside the mooted safe standing area, that the plans may mean a reduced capacity to 17.5k as opposed to 20k. But given our average attendance, I can see why the board might well go for that. We can't even sell out for games against the arse cheeks nowadays...even if the game isn't broadcast live on telly.

But then, it was only a few seasons ago we were selling out 20,000 for big games in Europe and v the Old Firm. If they build it to a smaller capacity it's almost like they're saying they don't feel we'll get back to that level again.

Think we have a certain ceiling for most League fixtures certainly. But if they are serious about this Uefa 100 thing, then that means regular group stage games in either the Europa League or this new conference thing, and would imagine the potential is there for regular 20k sell-outs in that stage.

Offline rocket_scientist

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Re: New stadium thread
« Reply #2647 on: January 21, 2020, 12:35:39 PM »
But then, it was only a few seasons ago we were selling out 20,000 for big games in Europe and v the Old Firm. If they build it to a smaller capacity it's almost like they're saying they don't feel we'll get back to that level again.

No it's not "almost" anything. The plan to build for less capacity than current is the most revealing part of this whole sham. Nice use of the word "they're" by the way, like you're not part of it 👍🏻

Ambition is necessary to create good things. Milne never had any ambition for "the product". Even when 43,000 of us turned up at red Parkhead, it never occurred to him that a good manager picking and motivating a good team could really compete, particularly against the dross that pollutes the SPFL these days and get 25,000 of us supporting a worthwhile cause. The cause has never been worthwhile under Milne because football was never his focus far less his principal objective.
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Offline Panda

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Re: New stadium thread
« Reply #2648 on: January 21, 2020, 12:36:32 PM »
Why? It's a fucking building for housing fitba fans. It'll be dated within a decade like any Stewart Milne build, because it'll have the plasticky panels that are the current fashion that everyone will think is trendy but don't stand the test of time.

Which is exactly the issue with westhill. If you can't walk to it, then it is outer Mongolia. 1.3 miles from the city centre, means that every single route of public service in the north east serves pittodrie. Westhill is served by a handful of busses. It's a 20th century idea and a fucking awful business decision. When the focus of anyone who has a brain is to reduce car travel, we build something that can only be accessed by car. It doesn't form part of a city development, or future growth plans. It's illiterate, backward thinking. To move your business from the heart of the infrastructure is the most ridiculous and short term move, to the extent that you have to conclude that the current and previous chairmen have no interest in the 50-100 year future of the club. The fans should instinctively no better.

But how many are walking or using public transport to get to Pittodrie now? I'd guess the majority still use car. It's an Aberdeen city problem that the transport options are so poor, rather than an Aberdeen FC one. The club have to do what's best for them and Kingsford was £1.1m to purchase compared to the extortionate costs of building in the city centre, or the £15m shortfall of staying at Pittodrie.

I grew up in Westhill and made that Westhill-Pittodrie journey every second week for the best part of 15 years. Not once did we consider not going because of the distance and I'd be surprised if that many are put off making the opposite journey.

Like I say, the location doesn't concern me. It has it's flaws of course but they don't keep me awake at night. The important thing is it's a Groupama Arena or Euroborg being built there, and not a Brentford.

Quote
Ten years after it's built, when we're playing the mid-table clash against the fifth team in the Danish league as part of the third tier extended European league, the crowds will begin to turn away, realising it was all just a plastic, manufactured, fakeness.

Different topic, but I'm looking forward to the new conference League 👀.

Brondby are around fourth or fifth at the moment in Denmark. Would be a decent fixture that.

Offline Panda

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Re: New stadium thread
« Reply #2649 on: January 21, 2020, 12:40:55 PM »
No it's not "almost" anything. The plan to build for less capacity than current is the most revealing part of this whole sham. Nice use of the word "they're" by the way, like you're not part of it 👍🏻

Ambition is necessary to create good things. Milne never had any ambition for "the product". Even when 43,000 of us turned up at red Parkhead, it never occurred to him that a good manager picking and motivating a good team could really compete, particularly against the dross that pollutes the SPFL these days and get 25,000 of us supporting a worthwhile cause. The cause has never been worthwhile under Milne because football was never his focus far less his principal objective.

Obviously I'm not going to even attempt a proper reply to any of your posts because it'd give me a headache trying to work out what's genuine and what are coded cries for help, but keep them coming as they are thoroughly entertaining reads. Especially the suggestion I'm part of the stadium build.

Offline tom_widdows

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Re: New stadium thread
« Reply #2650 on: January 21, 2020, 01:11:21 PM »
I wouldn't say that the new Brentford ground is "basic". I'd call it "quirky". The difference that they have compared to what we will have is that their ground is very much constrained by space, being built in a metropolitan area surrounded by buildings and a railway. I may have missed it on the video but don't recall seeing the cost mentioned. Even looking on Wiki, all it says is that the ground it is being built on was bought from Barratt Homes. Land in London is extortionate so it really wouldn't surprise me if the final bill for it comes in at more than £100million.

Initial budget was £71million with large chunk of that being underwritten by Brentwood's owner. Probably get a tidy sum from selling the old stadium for housing too.

Seems to have been a fairly smooth construction so they may scrape in under the £100million mark in the end.
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Offline rocket_scientist

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Re: New stadium thread
« Reply #2651 on: January 21, 2020, 02:01:24 PM »
Obviously I'm not going to even attempt a proper reply to any of your posts because it'd give me a headache trying to work out what's genuine and what are coded cries for help, but keep them coming as they are thoroughly entertaining reads. Especially the suggestion I'm part of the stadium build.

You misinterpret. You're part of the problem, not the stadium build. You are consistent in your posts. The record doesn't lie. It's not born from natural optimism nor are you one of the blind fools. Your agenda is see through.
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Offline RicoS321

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Re: New stadium thread
« Reply #2652 on: January 21, 2020, 02:14:57 PM »
But how many are walking or using public transport to get to Pittodrie now? I'd guess the majority still use car. It's an Aberdeen city problem that the transport options are so poor, rather than an Aberdeen FC one. The club have to do what's best for them and Kingsford was £1.1m to purchase compared to the extortionate costs of building in the city centre, or the £15m shortfall of staying at Pittodrie.

I grew up in Westhill and made that Westhill-Pittodrie journey every second week for the best part of 15 years. Not once did we consider not going because of the distance and I'd be surprised if that many are put off making the opposite journey.

Like I say, the location doesn't concern me. It has it's flaws of course but they don't keep me awake at night. The important thing is it's a Groupama Arena or Euroborg being built there, and not a Brentford.

If you grew up in westhill then you should know just how unappealing a location it is. You went to pittodrie because it was in Aberdeen and that's the contract you signed when becoming a fan. You were drawn into the bigger city, because that's what cities do. That's why it's completely logical to never give up that location. It is not the city's job to cater the public transport system towards a location in the middle of fucking nowhere. Read the news, every single city is attempting to reduce car journeys by increasing public transport, congestion charges, banning diesels etc. Aberdeen might always be a bit behind the curve, but it's only going in one direction. Our kids will be horrified in 20 years time when they see what AFCs plans were against the backdrop of attempting to reduce car travel. All infrastructure links point to the city centre. Nobody is putting on the number 205 fae Seaton to westhill, or cove to westhill or anywhere to west fucking hill. Because there is literally nothing there.

So the important thing is not the building. In any business, unless you're an architect. The importance is location, location, location to quote a shite TV program.

Quote
Different topic, but I'm looking forward to the new conference League 👀.

Brondby are around fourth or fifth at the moment in Denmark. Would be a decent fixture that.

Why? Who the fuck are brondby to us? European football is great because there are few games and there's only one chance every year to do something in it. Diluting it with some wanky manufactured pish sounds horrendous. Although, I'm happy that we're just of differing opinion here, I'm not suggesting you're wrong (unlike the stadium, where you are!).

Offline Panda

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Re: New stadium thread
« Reply #2653 on: January 21, 2020, 03:10:53 PM »
If you grew up in westhill then you should know just how unappealing a location it is. You went to pittodrie because it was in Aberdeen and that's the contract you signed when becoming a fan. You were drawn into the bigger city, because that's what cities do.

No. Had the stadium been in Portlethen when I was growing up, we'd have made the same number of journeys there too.

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That's why it's completely logical to never give up that location. It is not the city's job to cater the public transport system towards a location in the middle of fucking nowhere. Read the news, every single city is attempting to reduce car journeys by increasing public transport, congestion charges, banning diesels etc. Aberdeen might always be a bit behind the curve, but it's only going in one direction. Our kids will be horrified in 20 years time when they see what AFCs plans were against the backdrop of attempting to reduce car travel. All infrastructure links point to the city centre. Nobody is putting on the number 205 fae Seaton to westhill, or cove to westhill or anywhere to west fucking hill. Because there is literally nothing there.

I would guess it's not impossible to set up a traffic system that doesn't just drive all traffic towards the city centre. As cities expand and the city centre becomes more packed, new infrastructures generally have to be built elsewhere and traffic systems adjust. I've read many people say the new stadium should have been in Dyce. Well taking the new TECA as an example, how many people walked to the Gerry Cinnamon gig from union street?

Did Aberdeen City Council not put up considerations for new bus networks recently that would link Dyce railway and Kingswells P&R, which looked like pre-planning for Kingsford.

Here's a link here, though I do remember reading something that had more ideas in it but can't seem to find it:- https://news.aberdeencity.gov.uk/transport-schemes-identified-for-aberdeen-cross-city-connections/

Will it all be adequate? Who knows. They won't eradicate car use but at the same time it's not going to be 100% of fans using cars either. Like I say, Kingsford wasn't my first choice and it was never the club's either. But I can't see it being the disaster some seem to think it'll be. I'm more concerned about the standard of stadium that actually gets built there.


Quote
Why? Who the fuck are brondby to us? European football is great because there are few games and there's only one chance every year to do something in it. Diluting it with some wanky manufactured pish sounds horrendous. Although, I'm happy that we're just of differing opinion here, I'm not suggesting you're wrong (unlike the stadium, where you are!).

What can I say, I like seeing Aberdeen playing in Europe, and a group stage of Aberdeen, Brondby, Rijeka and Maribor might not have the glitz and glamour of the Champions League, but it'd be enough to pique my interest.

Offline rocket_scientist

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Re: New stadium thread
« Reply #2654 on: January 22, 2020, 07:20:11 AM »
If you grew up in westhill then you should know just how unappealing a location it is.

All infrastructure links point to the city centre. Nobody is putting on the number 205 fae Seaton to westhill, or cove to westhill or anywhere to west fucking hill. Because there is literally nothing there.

This made me chortle. You're locationist, or siteist. But I'm not a fan of Westhill either. A soulless dormitory.
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Offline ayrshire_don74

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Re: New stadium thread
« Reply #2655 on: January 22, 2020, 09:14:15 AM »
Some news outlets stating Main being offered in exchange plus $ for Kennedy... one wonders why the fck this useless waste of skin was signed in the first place
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Offline TheDeeDon

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Re: New stadium thread
« Reply #2656 on: January 22, 2020, 12:14:33 PM »

Did Aberdeen City Council not put up considerations for new bus networks recently that would link Dyce railway and Kingswells P&R, which looked like pre-planning for Kingsford.


I'm not allowed to drive to to a medical condition and have to rely on buses to get out to Westhill for work from the City and can assure you the service is very poor.  One of the said links has already been trialed and failed with the service having been withdrawn before Xmas. The Council just hasn't the funds to fund bus routes and the operators won't touch it as they won't be profitable without Council funding.

A great place for a training facility, but not a football stadium.