tlg1903 Posted yesterday at 12:41 Report Posted yesterday at 12:41 55 minutes ago, irnbru1903 said: Don't get me wrong I wanted McInnes gone as much as most as he had become stale and jaded especially after he had took his personal time to consider his future. However, if Cormack had invested the amount of money he has wasted since into our team at that point and given Derek free reign a la Milne then I do believe we would not be in this state now. That is what is infuriating. At that point it was all about Cormack though and his vision. He hasn't quite been the hero to us all that he pictured in his head. Agreed. Quote
OrlandoDon Posted yesterday at 12:49 Report Posted yesterday at 12:49 2 minutes ago, tlg1903 said: Agreed. I don’t buy that. You’re basically saying Derek is good in the transfer market. The squad was changing, giving Derek the check book guaranteed nothing. Looking at hearts today, pretty sure he had little or no say in that squad. Our recruitment has been really poor in recent years, do you think he’d be doing well with this current group? plus the limited home grown talent hurts, that’s my take. its definitely dark times right now. But wanting the ex back because we’re sitting home alone playing with ourselves is not the solution. Not saying we want him back, just it’s an easy excuse. Quote
tlg1903 Posted yesterday at 13:02 Report Posted yesterday at 13:02 7 minutes ago, OrlandoDon said: I don’t buy that. You’re basically saying Derek is good in the transfer market. The squad was changing, giving Derek the check book guaranteed nothing. Looking at hearts today, pretty sure he had little or no say in that squad. Our recruitment has been really poor in recent years, do you think he’d be doing well with this current group? plus the limited home grown talent hurts, that’s my take. its definitely dark times right now. But wanting the ex back because we’re sitting home alone playing with ourselves is not the solution. Not saying we want him back, just it’s an easy excuse. The initial point was we wouldn't be in this position if McInnes was still our manager. Are you actually saying you think if Derek McInnes was still our manager but with a significantly increased budget we would have just been papped out of cup by Dunfermline and be sinking like a stone in the league? Quote
OrlandoDon Posted yesterday at 13:19 Report Posted yesterday at 13:19 9 minutes ago, tlg1903 said: The initial point was we wouldn't be in this position if McInnes was still our manager. Are you actually saying you think if Derek McInnes was still our manager but with a significantly increased budget we would have just been papped out of cup by Dunfermline and be sinking like a stone in the league? It’s just a silly argument/discussion. So many variables. Would we be better with McKenna at the back? Ferguson in midfield? Miovski up top? do you think we’d be better with Halkett and Findlay in central defense, or braga up top? Mcinnes was given them, he did nothing, we got Morrison, McIntyre, and lazetic. Flawed examples of course but you get my point. You can only coach the players you are given. The squad is awful. Do I think Mcinnes would do a better job than leven? Absolutely. But the current squad was created by the increased budget, how much more would a competent manager get out of them? Mcinnes struggled in his last 2 years with us, did he have a better squad then than we do now? Quote
tlg1903 Posted yesterday at 13:35 Report Posted yesterday at 13:35 5 minutes ago, OrlandoDon said: It’s just a silly argument/discussion. So many variables. Would we be better with McKenna at the back? Ferguson in midfield? Miovski up top? do you think we’d be better with Halkett and Findlay in central defense, or braga up top? Mcinnes was given them, he did nothing, we got Morrison, McIntyre, and lazetic. Flawed examples of course but you get my point. You can only coach the players you are given. The squad is awful. Do I think Mcinnes would do a better job than leven? Absolutely. But the current squad was created by the increased budget, how much more would a competent manager get out of them? Mcinnes struggled in his last 2 years with us, did he have a better squad then than we do now? Findlay was defo a McInnes signing after having him at Killie, I doubt he was on JA's radar 2bh. You're missing the point though. McInnes is great at getting the best out of the squad he has and we constantly get told that managers have the final say on whether a player is signed under these analytic scouting systems. They say "I want this type of player and are presented with viable options to choose from. No doubt in my mind we would be in a FAR better position right now if he was still our manager. That's not to say that I'm pining for him, just that I recognise that Cormack clearly gambled to get his own man in the dugout (which, when you invest what he has, is fair enough). The problem isn't the letting go of Derek but the poor choices that have been made since with regards to who is in the dugout. It all does make you wonder if Thelin was actually over-achieving with the squad. Regardless though we are in a right old pickle and Leven is right to say we are in the dogfight now. Quote
Bukta Bertie Posted yesterday at 13:38 Report Posted yesterday at 13:38 This pining for McInnes thing is infuriating. Didn't he almost get Killie relegated. He's having a purple patch at a well run club this season but odds are that will come to nothing. Let go. He really wasn't that great. Quote
OrlandoDon Posted yesterday at 13:58 Report Posted yesterday at 13:58 (edited) 27 minutes ago, tlg1903 said: Findlay was defo a McInnes signing after having him at Killie, I doubt he was on JA's radar 2bh. You're missing the point though. McInnes is great at getting the best out of the squad he has and we constantly get told that managers have the final say on whether a player is signed under these analytic scouting systems. They say "I want this type of player and are presented with viable options to choose from. No doubt in my mind we would be in a FAR better position right now if he was still our manager. That's not to say that I'm pining for him, just that I recognise that Cormack clearly gambled to get his own man in the dugout (which, when you invest what he has, is fair enough). The problem isn't the letting go of Derek but the poor choices that have been made since with regards to who is in the dugout. It all does make you wonder if Thelin was actually over-achieving with the squad. Regardless though we are in a right old pickle and Leven is right to say we are in the dogfight now. I’m not missing the point. you are correct, finlay was a Mcinnes signing, forgot about that. Jimmy brought sivert. Mcinnes would def get more out of this group than leven, he’s not even head coach quality. But how much more, the team is awful. You could also argue Mcinnes was not getting the most out of our squad his last two years, he had Lewis, considine, mcginn, hedges, mccrorie, Ferguson, Hayes, cosgrove for some part, maybe Shay and Scott wright too, most/all would start for us right now. at the same time, arguing against myself, look how Morris changed under Thelin, gueye too, maybe a new manager gets more out of Aussie player of the year milanovic for example. did we make mistakes in the dugout? Glass was left field, but there was reason behind the others. Common theme though is poor signings and the squad continues to get worse, replacing players with poorer versions. its all shoulda woulda coulda, hypothetical and we’ll never know. Edited yesterday at 14:02 by OrlandoDon Quote
The.Moog Posted yesterday at 14:04 Report Posted yesterday at 14:04 1 hour ago, OrlandoDon said: I don’t buy that. You’re basically saying Derek is good in the transfer market. The squad was changing, giving Derek the check book guaranteed nothing. Looking at hearts today, pretty sure he had little or no say in that squad. Our recruitment has been really poor in recent years, do you think he’d be doing well with this current group? plus the limited home grown talent hurts, that’s my take. its definitely dark times right now. But wanting the ex back because we’re sitting home alone playing with ourselves is not the solution. Not saying we want him back, just it’s an easy excuse. McInnes signed Curtis Main. The prosecution rests M’lud… Quote
OrlandoDon Posted yesterday at 14:13 Report Posted yesterday at 14:13 7 minutes ago, The.Moog said: McInnes signed Curtis Main. The prosecution rests M’lud… Ha! I was going to say dylan mcgeough, excellent at hibs and had been in the Scotland squad. Mcinnes didn’t do so well with him. not here to bash Mcinnes. It’s just a flawed argument. As was mentioned too, he’s in a purple patch at present so looks extra appealing. At times the stars just align. They aren’t quite doing that for us these days! Quote
The.Moog Posted yesterday at 15:02 Report Posted yesterday at 15:02 42 minutes ago, OrlandoDon said: Ha! I was going to say dylan mcgeough, excellent at hibs and had been in the Scotland squad. Mcinnes didn’t do so well with him. not here to bash Mcinnes. It’s just a flawed argument. As was mentioned too, he’s in a purple patch at present so looks extra appealing. At times the stars just align. They aren’t quite doing that for us these days! He always starts well. Its fit he does First 4 years with us were very good, though he did inherit some excellent players fae Broon - McGinn, Hayes, Reynolds etc. He did make some good signings too Rooney, McLean for example. We absolutely should have won more than 1 league cup given the Tims were the only competition on the go for most of that time. That was a big fail. His last 3-4 years were shite though (its also fit he does) and when he left we were pretty much as bad as we are now. We went something like 9 games without scoring a goal as I recall. It was time to go, the fact Teeth has made a complete arse of replacing him doesn’t change that fact… 1 Quote
OrlandoDon Posted yesterday at 15:09 Report Posted yesterday at 15:09 3 minutes ago, The.Moog said: He always starts well. Its fit he does First 4 years with us were very good, though he did inherit some excellent players fae Broon - McGinn, Hayes, Reynolds etc. He did make some good signings too Rooney, McLean for example. We absolutely should have won more than 1 league cup given the Tims were the only competition on the go for most of that time. That was a big fail. His last 3-4 years were shite though (its also fit he does) and when he left we were pretty much as bad as we are now. We went something like 9 games without scoring a goal as I recall. It was time to go, the fact Teeth has made a complete arse of replacing him doesn’t change that fact… I have gotten a lot of push back when I say this, but the stars aligned for Mcinnes when he came to us. Rangers had died, hearts Dundee utd and hibs had all been relegated while Mcinnes was here, and he inherited the foundation of a solid squad. We added a few good signings, plus he had some good leaders, and it was a very good spell with him. Similarities to hearts this season maybe, the rest have their problems and he inherited a good squad. 1 1 Quote
The.Moog Posted yesterday at 15:57 Report Posted yesterday at 15:57 45 minutes ago, OrlandoDon said: I have gotten a lot of push back when I say this, but the stars aligned for Mcinnes when he came to us. Rangers had died, hearts Dundee utd and hibs had all been relegated while Mcinnes was here, and he inherited the foundation of a solid squad. We added a few good signings, plus he had some good leaders, and it was a very good spell with him. Similarities to hearts this season maybe, the rest have their problems and he inherited a good squad. 2017 was the peak. We had a really good team. Pushed a really good Celtic team all the way in that cup final. That’s when he should have left, downhill like a toboggan after that… 2 Quote
Bukta Bertie Posted yesterday at 15:58 Report Posted yesterday at 15:58 Just now, The.Moog said: 2017 was the peak. We had a really good team. Pushed a really good Celtic team all the way in that cup final. That’s when he should have left, downhill like a toboggan after that… Big time. That was the perfect time for him to bow out. 1 Quote
Mason89 Posted yesterday at 16:05 Report Posted yesterday at 16:05 5 minutes ago, Bukta Bertie said: Big time. That was the perfect time for him to bow out. The perfect time would’ve been straight after St. Johnstone put us out the cup at Ibrox Quote
Mason89 Posted yesterday at 16:06 Report Posted yesterday at 16:06 Sorry, the perfect time would’ve been right before St. Johnstone put us out the cup at Ibrox Quote
Bukta Bertie Posted yesterday at 16:07 Report Posted yesterday at 16:07 Just now, Mason89 said: The perfect time would’ve been straight after St. Johnstone put us out the cup at Ibrox No. He should have left in the summer after lifting the league cup. His stock was at its highest and it was only going to go one way after that. I really don't get the man love some Dons fans still have for the arrogant Hun fud. He's a horrible bastard. Quote
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