Crazy American Politics

[Nellie The Don]

51 minutes ago, OrlandoDon said:

I said the left was worse than the right and I believe that. I didn’t say the right was blameless or innocent. Both are at fault.

I gave concrete examples. Can you do the same?

[OrlandoDon]

And this is where you lose me when we discuss politics. I’m not mental, the name calling starts. Been attacked here before, be it in 2020 when trump lost, or during Covid, so i tread lightly because people get personal really quickly, and ultimately I’m here for football. I am speaking from my experience living here, and the current situation, not about 50 years. I also treat many of you like my parents, if you don’t live here you get a filtered  view of America in your media. I don’t know if anyone else lives here but many of you seem to believe you have a really tight and clear understanding of American culture and what it’s like living here.

From what I see and sense here, being around it daily, watching news here, CNN, MSNBC, FOX etc, (plus having watched Charlie Kirk at times in recent years), and maybe starting to pay more attention in the last 10 years or so, I form my views. The daily attacks on a government, the rhetoric of politicians on the left talking about hitler and fascism, that doesn’t help. Trying to assassinate a president, twice, doesn’t help. I think it’s a statement in itself that we’ve seen recent attacks on the right and there’s no violence. Had it been a left equivalent killed this week, I think there would have definitely been a left leaning violent response.

I’ve also said I believe the one person who could really do something to make a positive different right now is trump. And he won’t.

[OrlandoDon]

19 minutes ago, Nellie The Don said:

I gave concrete examples. Can you do the same?

It’s not about winning an argument, I think it’s bigger than that. Winning and losing arguments is why we are at this point, we’re all losers at present. If you do some objective reading you’ll easily find it. We see it daily. From three assassination attempts in the last year, 2 on trump and now Kirk, plus the violence around BLM or ICE, politicized to left leaning causes, it’s all there. Listen to the likes of Tim Walz, AOC, its toxic. But you get similar on the right, there’s a lot of reflection needed that will unlikely happen.

how much time have you spent in America?

[OrlandoDon]

2 hours ago, Nellie The Don said:

Nah. Fuck that.

This all came about a week after Trump's deputy chief of staff said that the entire democratic party is 'not a political party, but a domestic extremist organisation'. 

Less than 3 months ago the democratic speaker of the Minnesota state legislature was assassinated by a right wing extremist, and your entire party basically just shrugged and ignored it.

The guy that attacked Nancy Pelosi's husband with a hammer was lionised as a patriot by *checks notes* Charlie Kirk.

Trump pardoned everyone convicted of rioting and attacking the capitol building because they didn't like the result of the 2020 election. 

We've had him painting a target on Hilary Clinton's back by claiming that 'the 2nd ammendment people could stop her', and then Kamala Harris' by removing her secret service protection and then using the police union to prevent LAPD from protecting her.

Trump, and just about every other Maga talking head spent the last few days attempting to weaponise Charlie Kirk's death against the 'extremist left', to the point of invoking 'civil war', only for it to turn out that the shooter was nothing of the kind.

This upsurge in political violence is a problem from and of the right, and your Maga pals need to fucking own it or grace us all with a long overdue great big silence.

 

Harris’ protection was not removed. From what I understand, by law she got protection for 6 months, and she was given extra time, she got 9 months. Then the protection expired. So rather than it being removed, she was actually given an extension. 

you talk about trump pardoning but don’t talk about biden’s autopen granting pardons. Additionally, nobody actually knows who processed biden’s pardons. If I recall, his staffers were asked in congress under oath about it and they plead the fifth.

It’s both sides, but if you are abroad you don’t get the full story as left leaning media doesn’t report it.

[wee toon red]

Please take this as a genuine question Orlando Don as I think it was you that said it (apologies if it wasn’t):

What specifically is it that schools and colleges over there are teaching that’s “left” and lead folk like Charlie Kirk to think the opposite point of view needs to be put out on campuses across the country?

[Nellie The Don]

I've lived in the US for 2 years, and have family who have been here since the 70s. It has become a noticeably less safe and stable place over the last 9 months.

 

Just saying 'I believe they are worse' is all fine and well. Some people believe in the tooth fairy. When they start arming themselves and talking about going to war with the tooth fairy, it's time for the sake of everyone's safety to challenge them to justify what the fuck they are talking about.

[RicoS321]

2 hours ago, OrlandoDon said:

And this is where you lose me when we discuss politics. I’m not mental, the name calling starts. Been attacked here before, be it in 2020 when trump lost, or during Covid, so i tread lightly because people get personal really quickly, and ultimately I’m here for football. I am speaking from my experience living here, and the current situation, not about 50 years

You don't need to live there to know that the majority of political violence is, factually speaking, right wing. The majority of political violence occurs on behalf the state. The current state is run by Republican Trump, the previous, Democrat Biden. Both right wing, just as Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan before them were. Beyond that, there may be some individual left wing people causing violence, and a couple of marginalised groups, offset against the invariably right wing school shooters and other assorted weirdos. 

I'm not particularly against political violence as it happens, I think it's inevitable in a corrupt system such as the one we've designed, and sometimes essential. I wouldn't class myself as left wing either. I wouldn't really give much of a shite if right wing violence did outweigh left, I was attempting to be objective, and objectively speaking it isn't even close. Unless Fox news are burying a large cache of left wing organised violence that nobody in the world is hearing about, or seeing. 

[OrlandoDon]

Can you clarify/elaborate on your comments about not being against political violence?

[OrlandoDon]

39 minutes ago, RicoS321 said:

You don't need to live there to know that the majority of political violence is, factually speaking, right wing. The majority of political violence occurs on behalf the state. The current state is run by Republican Trump, the previous, Democrat Biden. Both right wing, just as Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan before them were. Beyond that, there may be some individual left wing people causing violence, and a couple of marginalised groups, offset against the invariably right wing school shooters and other assorted weirdos. 

I'm not particularly against political violence as it happens, I think it's inevitable in a corrupt system such as the one we've designed, and sometimes essential. I wouldn't class myself as left wing either. I wouldn't really give much of a shite if right wing violence did outweigh left, I was attempting to be objective, and objectively speaking it isn't even close. Unless Fox news are burying a large cache of left wing organised violence that nobody in the world is hearing about, or seeing. 

Curious to know your take, do you think your opinion on Aberdeen as someone who goes to games regularly carries more weight than someone like me who only watches on my iPad and reads online?

[RicoS321]

5 minutes ago, OrlandoDon said:

Can you clarify/elaborate on your comments about not being against political violence?

Absolutely. As I say, most violence is of the state. I'd argue that everyone is not against political violence, including you! It's just that we've created this artificial barrier that says that because the violence is of/by the state or country, that it's in some way legitimate. I'm sure there's a police shooting out there that you've (perhaps correctly) thought was justified. You might agree with Israel's right to defend itself, or a corporation's right to refuse someone health care. All of these things are political violence (similarly homelessness), based on a made-up, right wing, economic system. Most people see this violence as acceptable as they are told that it is acceptable, because it conforms to some arbitrary man-made laws. The US has exported political violence worldwide, toppling whichever governments didn't conform to its right wing economic agenda, backed by the IMF. At home, they arbitrarily decide that you can't consume particular drugs, whilst allowing the biggest pharmaceutical companies to murder people via fentanyl or other addictive drug of choice (those pharmaceutical companies exist, and lobby, because the right wing economic system allows it - and the right wing state deregulates it). What really is the difference between an IDF soldier killing a Gazan child, and some right wing/left wing/incel/trans (delete as appropriate) person who decided that they didn't like his politics? 

Meanwhile, the same people that brought you forty years of right wing, inhumane, unnatural, ecologically disastrous, anti-physics economic growth ideology, happen to also own the news networks that spend 24/7 telling you that the left/right is your enemy, stoking hate and division in order that nobody stops to question why their violence is somehow worse than the biggest source of political violence. Those people are your enemy. Fox news is your enemy, CNN, MSNBC are your enemy. Not your foreign neighbour, or the BLM/Proud boys lad from down the road. 

[OrlandoDon]

31 minutes ago, RicoS321 said:

Absolutely. As I say, most violence is of the state. I'd argue that everyone is not against political violence, including you! It's just that we've created this artificial barrier that says that because the violence is of/by the state or country, that it's in some way legitimate. I'm sure there's a police shooting out there that you've (perhaps correctly) thought was justified. You might agree with Israel's right to defend itself, or a corporation's right to refuse someone health care. All of these things are political violence (similarly homelessness), based on a made-up, right wing, economic system. Most people see this violence as acceptable as they are told that it is acceptable, because it conforms to some arbitrary man-made laws. The US has exported political violence worldwide, toppling whichever governments didn't conform to its right wing economic agenda, backed by the IMF. At home, they arbitrarily decide that you can't consume particular drugs, whilst allowing the biggest pharmaceutical companies to murder people via fentanyl or other addictive drug of choice (those pharmaceutical companies exist, and lobby, because the right wing economic system allows it - and the right wing state deregulates it). What really is the difference between an IDF soldier killing a Gazan child, and some right wing/left wing/incel/trans (delete as appropriate) person who decided that they didn't like his politics? 

Meanwhile, the same people that brought you forty years of right wing, inhumane, unnatural, ecologically disastrous, anti-physics economic growth ideology, happen to also own the news networks that spend 24/7 telling you that the left/right is your enemy, stoking hate and division in order that nobody stops to question why their violence is somehow worse than the biggest source of political violence. Those people are your enemy. Fox news is your enemy, CNN, MSNBC are your enemy. Not your foreign neighbour, or the BLM/Proud boys lad from down the road. 

It’s impossible to respond to that, so much there and I don’t have the time or interest to dive that deep. 

we’re talking current day politics, republicans and democrats, and the toxic and divisive environment. I do think it matters if you live here and are immersed in the culture.

i asked you about your opinion on going to Aberdeen games live versus me who watches from afar. Are my opinions, if all I see and read is YouTube clips and the daily record online, as valid as you who see us live weekly and lives and breathes in the Aberdeen environment?
I have worked in finance for almost 3 years. My portfolio is killing it right now. Had I listened to what the vast majority of news outlets here said at the start of the year about trump, tariffs, and the economy, i’d be in a very different situation. All the ‘experts’ there were wrong. I don’t believe most really believed what they were saying, it was simply anti trump. I’ve said it to my parents multiple times as well, I don’t think what you see and hear is totally accurate.

[RicoS321]

1 hour ago, OrlandoDon said:

It’s impossible to respond to that, so much there and I don’t have the time or interest to dive that deep. 

we’re talking current day politics, republicans and democrats, and the toxic and divisive environment. I do think it matters if you live here and are immersed in the culture.

i asked you about your opinion on going to Aberdeen games live versus me who watches from afar. Are my opinions, if all I see and read is YouTube clips and the daily record online, as valid as you who see us live weekly and lives and breathes in the Aberdeen environment?

It's a really good analogy. While we discuss the minutiae of the Dons' tactical issues, we simultaneously suspend the topic of the systemic makeup of our game. While the folk in charge deliberately allow the game to go to shite, the talking heads distract with chat about coefficient and just needing to believe. Your opinions about Aberdeen on the pitch are not as valid (in your example), but your wide boundary view of the Scottish game doesn't require you to be on the ground, and would be equally as valid. 

But, to be honest, if you're not willing to dive that deep, than that's probably why you think that the left is more violent than the right, when it demonstrably isn't. You don't even seem to accept that both the Republicans and Democrats are both right wing. It's like describing Bill Gates against mark Zuckerberg as left versus right. There hasn't been a left of any sort representing the US in fifty years. Democrats Vs Republicans is professional managerial class Vs ownership class, the sole aim being power, with the populace being tricked into picking a side. The people engaging in the arguments that you see (and I see in the UK, because it's largely the same) are exactly the same as one another. Why on earth would you (for example, not literally you) pick a fight (debate) with an unemployed person, an immigrant or someone who has been evicted from their home, at the behest of some cunt like Trump or Musk? Or why would a feminist start an argument with a working class man, at the behest of Hilary Clinton or Kamala Harris? Why are so many people doing the bidding of these powerful people? Who benefits?

Your portfolio story is telling. Did anyone seriously think the banking sector would lose out when Trump came to power? Only stupid people (the experts you mention, I'm assuming, were economics experts. In other words, fraudsters, educated in a sudo-religious game). Trump is the same. He might change the way the game is played, slightly, but he'll never ever question the game itself. 

[OrlandoDon]

 

3 hours ago, RicoS321 said:

It's a really good analogy. While we discuss the minutiae of the Dons' tactical issues, we simultaneously suspend the topic of the systemic makeup of our game. While the folk in charge deliberately allow the game to go to shite, the talking heads distract with chat about coefficient and just needing to believe. Your opinions about Aberdeen on the pitch are not as valid (in your example), but your wide boundary view of the Scottish game doesn't require you to be on the ground, and would be equally as valid. 

But, to be honest, if you're not willing to dive that deep, than that's probably why you think that the left is more violent than the right, when it demonstrably isn't. You don't even seem to accept that both the Republicans and Democrats are both right wing. It's like describing Bill Gates against mark Zuckerberg as left versus right. There hasn't been a left of any sort representing the US in fifty years. Democrats Vs Republicans is professional managerial class Vs ownership class, the sole aim being power, with the populace being tricked into picking a side. The people engaging in the arguments that you see (and I see in the UK, because it's largely the same) are exactly the same as one another. Why on earth would you (for example, not literally you) pick a fight (debate) with an unemployed person, an immigrant or someone who has been evicted from their home, at the behest of some cunt like Trump or Musk? Or why would a feminist start an argument with a working class man, at the behest of Hilary Clinton or Kamala Harris? Why are so many people doing the bidding of these powerful people? Who benefits?

Your portfolio story is telling. Did anyone seriously think the banking sector would lose out when Trump came to power? Only stupid people (the experts you mention, I'm assuming, were economics experts. In other words, fraudsters, educated in a sudo-religious game). Trump is the same. He might change the way the game is played, slightly, but he'll never ever question the game itself. 

You’d need to provide your definition of right wing for me to comment. My understanding has always been that right wing has some aspect of conservative beliefs or values and I don’t see that from the left. 

i won’t back down from my argument that living here makes a difference. I was stunned when the comment ‘who is Charlie Kirk’ was made. Based on world response he’s very well known. But that does depend on the coverage you get, I’d see him on shows and news daily, not just social media. But it depends on what you get in Britain from us. As I’ve overly stated, I’ve debated many times with my parents, I don’t believe you don’t get a fair reflection of what it’s like here in the us, and what coverage gets sent to the UK. I’ve made comments about certain things over the last few years and my parents were clueless to what I was talking about. There’s major incidents here that just don’t get covered in the left leaning news networks, which in believe is most of what you get. if you only watch msnbc or cnn you don’t get the whole story here either I suppose. Same with fox on the other side though, it’s not news but news opinion or propaganda.

I got slammed here in 2019/2020 when I said trump was the lesser of two evils when Biden won. I think the left/dems at present are more dangerous, and I think the 4 years under Biden made things much worse. Many point at trump, he’s just less discrete and the media covers him in an extreme fashion, others, like it was with Biden, don’t seem to get the same exposure.

one for you to watch, i predict insider trading drama here in the coming months, pelosi, Elizabeth Warren, AOC of late. I’m sure there are republicans too but it’s just not out there at present. Laws will be put in place to limit/disclose, even ban investment activity with politicians. 

Edited 5 hours ago by OrlandoDon