When I was a lad, a tiny wee lad, I remember the anticipation and excitement of getting my first Dons strip - xmas 1988 and I remember the celophane wrapping, the static coming off the shirt as I took it out of the plastic, and the never-wanting-to-wear-anything-else-ever-again feeling.  I remember my granny taking me down to the old club shop in the basement of Crombie Sports in Bridge Street and being awe-struck at the red and white paraphernalia on offer.  As a boy it would make you feel ten feet tall going out to play with your pals in your team's new strip.  Every other summer from there on in I would have saved my money to buy the next new strip, home and away, maybe the odd track suit, schoolbag, windcheater chucked in as well.

 

Has our football club lost its lustre, or maybe more pertinently, have the people who run it lost sight of the reasons why they do it?  The club of course has to ride the financial storm but is years and years of abject misery on the pitch how we pay for keeping our club's head above the water?  We always hear of "unrealistic expectations" but nothing could be more inaccurate.  Almost every other club in the SPL has had more relative domestic success than us over the last ten years through cup wins, cup final appearances.  It is little wonder that our fans are typecast as being miserable when we have little to cheer about and then we are told we have to "live within our means" all the time, whilst watching the likes of those big-spenders Falkirk and Dunfermline reach cup finals?

 

Football isn't played on financial accounts and balance sheets.  Good football clubs employ good football managers  who in turn know how to get the best out of their players, regardless of how much these players cost or are paid.  If we as fans felt that our players were giving their best every week then there would be no real problem.  Time after time, our managers fail to get the best out of the players.  The excitement seems to have come more from not knowing from one week to the next if we are going to lose at home to Hamilton or beat Celtic at Parkhead, rather than any level of consistency or expectancy.

 

Stewart Milne has presided over these lean years employing one dud manager after another.  The best appointment of his, Jimmy Calderwood, did of course reach the end of his shelf life, if that shelf life is judged on requiring a new man to take us to another level.  I think we wanted to be able to look on McGhee's appointment with the view that "Calderwood had taken us as far as he can", and that McGhee could move us forward and give us back some excitement.  It hasn't happened, and despite him having signed a handful of decent players this summer, I don't think it is going to happen either.  I do think we have the nucleus of a good squad with the likes of Aluko, Fyvie, Paton, Folly, Hartley, Considine, Pawlett and a few others, but McGhee doesn't fill me with excitement or anticipation that he is going to be the man to whip us all into a frenzy and take us forward.

 

I know we are not Barcelona and we are not necessarily a hugely attractive proposition to any aspiring football manager, I know we also can't afford to keep sacking managers on a whim, but if there is anything that can fire up our support it is a sign that those in charge care about what is happening.  If they take their eyes of the debt and the fucking new stadium for one minute, they will see a once proud club that formerly showed their wares in the most civilised of good company now flashing their knickers down on Regent Quay and getting no takers.  I don't believe that McGhee has been set a high enough target.  Nobody seems to care enough to do what is necessary - speculate to accumulate if only for one transfer window and give the manager a remit to make top 6 and the cup final or die.  Set the target and achieve it.  Fail and face the consequences.  The heart of the issue is that football teams exist to compete, and ours just doesn't.

 

I am worried, really worried about where our club is going.  I am worried that if and when I get round to getting my boy his first Aberdeen strip, if he'll be as excited as I was, or just plain embarrassed.

No offence has been taken, because you seem to have proven my final point about a lack of desire to change anything.  Everyone seems happy to moan about it but nobody is really that interested in changing it.

 

I'm talking about the fans solidly uniting against Milne and making it clear in no uncertain terms that we want him out.  Nothing to do with money or having wealthy backers:These things happen one step at a time, you can't just skip to the end game.  Milne I am sure realises he is unpopular, but just not how deep seated it really is.  He needs to be made to realise.

 

You're also conveniently forgetting the fact that not everyone has the same opinion of the man or his leadership as you do. As potty as that sounds, it is very much fact.

 

So, ok, I take your point. We have to make Milne realise he is unpopular (even though you admit yourself he is made aware of this).  Do you really think, after all these years, he gives a fuck whether he is unpopular or otherwise?  I've been there when he's been abused by fans in stadium car parks, he has overseen the least successful period in the club's history post war both on the pitch and off it, the stadium is crumbling and on and on and on...

 

Milne is many, many things, but he's not stupid. He knows fine well how unpopular he is. Standing outside the mainstand shouting for him to Get to Fuck will not faze him. Neither will unfurling a flag with a similar message in the South Stand. We've done it before and we're still here saying the same things about him.

 

I'm not for a second saying you shouldn't sew the seeds of revolution - i'm all for it - and maybe I am apathetic (it's hard not to be after all these years) but let's also have a bit of realism about it eh?  If there's one thing that will kill enthusiasm it's charging on with something without realistically thinking it through, and then when nothing changes, the enthusiasm wanes, and if anything ever brings on apathy, it is certainly that scenario.

You're also conveniently forgetting the fact that not everyone has the same opinion of the man or his leadership as you do.

 

I'm not forgetting nor ignoring anything.  I am asking the question if anybody cares enough to do something about it, so can we have less of the word twisting and patronising eh?

 

Any meaningful campaign against Milne needs to be relentless, not just a couple of guys shouting on Pittodrie Street, but eventually of course the numbers would need to reach a point where a real message is delivered.  In the stadium, out the stadium, in the press, in the public domain.  We need to make his position completely untenable.

 

Or are we as a support simply just destined to be perennial moaners but have no real desire to strike at the heart of the club and get things changed?  That would be extremely sad, and our club will continue to die a slow painful death while we have thousands of bottlers following our team.

I'm not forgetting nor ignoring anything.  I am asking the question if anybody cares enough to do something about it, so can we have less of the word twisting and patronising eh?

 

 

Perhaps bear that in mind when telling the rest of us to waken up then, eh?

 

Cheers.

Perhaps bear that in mind when telling the rest of us to waken up then, eh?

 

Cheers.

 

The truth hurts

The truth hurts

 

Crikey.

Crikey.

 

Well I hope that people do take offence because maybe they'll be forced to realise that they do care enough to do something about it rather than moan on a messageboard and expect someone else to do the dirty work.

 

If not, fair enough, then I'll realise I support a team with supporters that collectively have no passion.

Well I hope that people do take offence because maybe they'll be forced to realise that they do care enough to do something about it rather than moan on a messageboard and expect someone else to do the dirty work.

 

If not, fair enough, then I'll realise I support a team with supporters that collectively have no passion.

 

Every single one of us here has invested a lot of money, time, effort and probably most of all emotion in supporting Aberdeen. 

 

I would never dream of telling another Dons fan of how they should support the club. 

 

Instead of telling us what we should be doing, why don't you start something, and see how many follow? 

Well I hope that people do take offence because maybe they'll be forced to realise that they do care enough to do something about it rather than moan on a messageboard and expect someone else to do the dirty work.

 

So what do you propose to do then?

It is all well and good having a revolution but the main problem with getting rid of Milne is replacing him with a wealthy benefactor that will both clear the debt and provide new finance for the football side of the club. As far as I can see if Milne did decide "I've had enough and I am walking and you can look after the debt yourself" then we would be in a worse state than we are at the present time. Yes he may have presided over a piss poor period for our club but he has also presided over a period of change in football where the haves have got richer and the have nots have got poorer.

 

Who do you suggest we replace him with? If you have a revolution then you must also have an idea on how it ends. The ousting of milne could only be the start.

I would never dream of telling another Dons fan of how they should support the club. 

 

Neither would I.

 

I'm trying to stir up a bit of passion and debate among what seems to have become a very dull message board, where everyone just seems to go along with concensus and agree with each other.

So what do you propose to do then?

 

To start off with, use our voices and our pockets, there are plenty of ways to get the message across.

 

Return of season tickets, walk-out protests, match boycotts, no club shop purchases, press campaigns, anti-Milne demonstrations, basically a boycott of all things AFC.

 

No season ticket purchases next season.

 

Like I say though, if there is no desire for it, then fine.  But surely we are agreed there is something endemic within the club that is rotten and we're resigned to a continued era of misery and failure.  And I'll have my answer to my original question.

To start off with, use our voices and our pockets, there are plenty of ways to get the message across.

 

Return of season tickets, walk-out protests, match boycotts, no club shop purchases, press campaigns, anti-Milne demonstrations, basically a boycott of all things AFC.

 

No season ticket purchases next season.

 

Like I say though, if there is no desire for it, then fine.  But surely we are agreed there is something endemic within the club that is rotten and we're resigned to a continued era of misery and failure.  And I'll have my answer to my original question.

 

Good idea. We cant afford decent player, and our support is so well regardedly already that we're almost driving players away. I suppose one way to "get Milne out" is for there to be no club left for him to run.

 

What is needed is support for the team on the field in the hope that this might just help results and help funds.

Good idea. We cant afford decent player, and our support is so well regardedly already that we're almost driving players away. I suppose one way to "get Milne out" is for there to be no club left for him to run.

 

What is needed is support for the team on the field in the hope that this might just help results and help funds.

 

This board has proven it is incapable of generating more support, so in effect are you advocating more of the same?  Surely some fresh ideas are needed.

Yes, fresh ideas are needed. A boycott isna fresh, nor has it ever worked!

Yes, fresh ideas are needed. A boycott isna fresh, nor has it ever worked!

 

So you don't believe that attempting to hurt the board could conceivably bring about change?  Do we as a support want change, or are we happy to continue to exist in our current state?  If we do, aren't we just accepting falling standards?

 

I agree to an extent that silence is consent, however as bobby biscuit has already pointed out not a lot of folk have the time/money to organise some of the proposals you listed. This has nothing to do with not caring, just a case of personal circumstances taking priority over AFC.

 

If you have the time etc to start up some of those proposal BTR then fair play to you, I'll help in any way I can.

As I said bloo Toon, I'm not sure what to do about the situation. Your ideas are along the right lines, but I just wonder if the supporters have enough passion to follow through with it. This lean patch has gone on for so long its ridiculous and I think that people are now just accepting the situation for what it is. The apathy seems to go right through the club. It's a sad state of affairs and I certainly wonder if all of this would cause more damage to the club than good. Milne seems too stubborn for his own good and won't relinquish his strangle hold on the club.

 

There are a lot of people out there that think the situation within the club is fine (i.e. with the management) and are fooled by the idea of the new stadium. These are the people we need to convince first and foremost. I'm sure if someone started something (more organised than the protest of 15) they'd get the backing. I wish you luck if you do take it upon yourself to do something and you have my support.

Hold on, didn't we all just agree that we dont give a fuck?

As I posted two pages ago, their is very little unity within the support.  For any protest along the lines suggested to have any significant impact you would need a big proportion, if not a majority to be involved.  I see nothing in the support that would suggest this is likely and imagine any such attempt would result in division rather than unity.

 

Just off the top of my head we've had an attempted walk-out vs Dundee in the last days of Pele, we've had attempts by the RedUltras to add passion and excitement to the crowd and stadium and we've had a protest against Jimmy.  You can argue about the merits or not of all of these but all resulted in confrontation between fans and only served to disunite large chuncks of the support.

 

I realise that doesn't solve the problem but looking around Scottish football I have my doubts that anything will change at afc until the whole structure, mind set and priorities of Scottish football changes.

Let's get one thing straight here - this thread isn't about me trying to bring about change via a revolution or whatever, I'm trying to gauge if everyone has all given up on AFC, if there is a real desire for us to get back to the top, or if we have all decided that there are so many other things that we want to spend our time and money on that we don't care anymore, and if that apathy is going to continue to spread to the next generation and the generation after that.  That's what the original post was, and it was to stimulate debate and stir something up, not to "start a revolution" as some of you appear to now be misunderstanding.

 

From the general responses here, it seems that everyone appears to be generally satisfied to accept lower standards, and that those who don't, have already walked away.  It's as if the ones who can't accept the fall in standards, the people who the club probably need more than the happy clappers, have given up on AFC and possibly also Milne's inability to change things.

 

I realise that doesn't solve the problem but looking around Scottish football I have my doubts that anything will change at afc until the whole structure, mind set and priorities of Scottish football changes.

 

You are most probably right.  When is this Henry McLeish review finally published and what are we expecting?

To start off with, use our voices and our pockets, there are plenty of ways to get the message across.

 

Return of season tickets, walk-out protests, match boycotts, no club shop purchases, press campaigns, anti-Milne demonstrations, basically a boycott of all things AFC.

 

No season ticket purchases next season.

 

Like I say though, if there is no desire for it, then fine.  But surely we are agreed there is something endemic within the club that is rotten and we're resigned to a continued era of misery and failure.  And I'll have my answer to my original question.

 

Milne's a one man operation on this all by himself and by all accounts he's managing it very successfully.

 

Any meaningful campaign against Milne needs to be relentless, not just a couple of guys shouting on Pittodrie Street

 

You heard about that then.   

 

 

Yes, fresh ideas are needed. A boycott isna fresh, nor has it ever worked!

 

Any action has to be sustained, thats why it hasnt worked before. One off protest can too easily be brushed aside by half arsed press releases and statements such as Milne has made before.

I realise that doesn't solve the problem but looking around Scottish football I have my doubts that anything will change at afc until the whole structure, mind set and priorities of Scottish football changes.

 

+1

 

YES! Until the "authorities" that run Scottish football finally wake up and realise a league of 2 whose support is almost 100% due to historical ignorance/intolerance, 2 teams who corner the market in Scotland, 2 teams who demand (and for fuck's sake get away with) raping the rest of the league in terms of finances etc is "NOT A GOOD THING" then we are fucked.

 

The OF should have been outlawed in the 80's or earlier. Or just vote them out to the Blue Sqaure North or whatever.

 

Celti and Rangers, their support in the heirarchy, and their statistically skewed support throughout Scotland are a far bigger problem to the future, not just of our team, but of football as a professionally competitive sport in this country.

 

Might as well be in Eastern Europe with the Stazi running the league!

Celti and Rangers, their support in the heirarchy, and their statistically skewed support throughout Scotland are a far bigger problem to the future, not just of our team, but of football as a professionally competitive sport in this country.

 

So what's the alternative?

 

It doesn't look like the SPL member clubs would ever vote to let them go.  So do we need a change in the constitution of the SPL, or do we change the competition to make it more competitive?

 

Is it conceivable to abolish the league system as we know it, which has become dull, in favour of a Champions League style play-off system?  Plucked right out of the air - two leagues of 8 or 10, play each other home and away (once), top two in each league move forward to semi-final and final to contest who are Champions.  It's unconventional, but potentially pretty exciting.

 

Could the system be changed so that the league retains all gate receipts and that the prize pot is then shared out at the end of the season depending on placings?  It all gets a little bit MLS, but maybe they're onto something.

Close them down. Distribute their assets in an NFL draft manner, worst club in Scotland gets first choice, with a caveat players HAVE to see out at least one year of their contract. Convert the 2 stadia into facilities for the Commonwealth games or other sports so there's no "ties". Expunge all records of the two teams from the history of Scottish football.

 

Yes I'm living in La-la-cloud-coockoo-land here, but it's a fresh approach?