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P&J: McGhee in move for ex-Rangers forward


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Guest rocket debris

manc, bilbo, I and others have expressed dissatisfaction with our internal contracts and external transfer negotiations. Either we were right to or we were not. You yourself bb said that the biggest internal contract granting was a fuck up.

 

If it's not the responsibility of the DoF then who's is it?

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Guest rocket debris

So when good young players are developed its down to Lenny Taylor, but when one slips through the net its Miller's fault?

This is the self declared home of the most intelligent AFC webchatspeaksite. There is a principal point being discussed. I suggested the reasons for it. Discuss.

 

 

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This is the self declared home of the most intelligent AFC webchatspeaksite. There is a principal point being discussed. I suggested the reasons for it. Discuss.

 

I agree that our contract dealings are a shambles. I agree that there are many factors behind this such as financial constraints and some of the various non-playing staff over the past few years.

 

I don't believe that it is all one man's fault and that he should be criticised irrationally until he leaves his post.

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Miller specifically said that he was here to attract investment and said that he was going to speak to the oil industry. He said this at the AFCST meeting 5.5 years ago immediately after his appointment. I am not gratuitously "giving him a hard time". This is a matter of fact. I acknowledge that in bigger clubs who can afford layers of management that it would be someone other than the DoF who would have this remit.

 

Regardless of the size of club, it still falls more on Duncan Fraser's side. Again, why he seems bulletproof from you i find a little strange.

 

 

But his appointment was political and you agree that his biggest mistake cost this club hundreds of thousands. So you can see why Aberdeen fans have the right to question his overall worth.

 

Aberdeen fans have the right to question anything at the club. The fact I don't agree with everything you say doesn't mean I don't think you have the right to question it.  I do think your reasoning for questioning it is skewed though, shown by your apparent reluctance to get stuck into Duncan Fraser for something that is clearly more his responsibility than Willie Miller's.

 

I did not "conveniently forget" the one positive from the last few years. We finally have three young prospects. I said this and credited Lenny Taylor. I just hope that David Templeton doesn't come on and hammer us tonight, one of the most exciting talents I have seen for over a decade. Within a minute of him coming on at Pittodrie he skinned Mulgrew in the box and got a cross in. During WM's tenure, we let him go and he was told that he's "too small" to make it.

 

Who appointed Lenny Taylor? Miller overhauled the youth set up. You can not deny this surely?

 

Also, if a player is let go, why on earth would that be down to Willie Miller?  It will rightly be down to the youth coaches. Again, it just seems you're more interested in a personal vendetta against Miller when you're using logic like that.

 

manc, bilbo, I and others have expressed dissatisfaction with our internal contracts and external transfer negotiations. Either we were right to or we were not. You yourself bb said that the biggest internal contract granting was a fuck up.

 

If it's not the responsibility of the DoF then who's is it?

 

I more than appreciate that it's his responsibility. However, I don't understand why you don't appreciate that negotiations can go to pot due to other issues outwith our control.  I don't like the way things are leaked to the press, but i don't know if that's down to Miller 100% of the time. Sometimes we lose the possibility of getting players simply because we can't afford them. Thems the breaks, and unless Miller dips into his weekly £1m salary (sic) there's not much he can do about that is there?

 

Negotiations can be handled better,  I agree with you. The fact they aren't handled well doesn't just sit with one man though. McGhee's hung us out to dry with these things too, as did JC before him.

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Guest rocket debris

I agree that our contract dealings are a shambles. I agree that there are many factors behind this such as financial constraints and some of the various non-playing staff over the past few years.

 

I don't believe that it is all one man's fault and that he should be criticised irrationally until he leaves his post.

At last, a post almost worthy of the self declared home. In that case, you accord with sharpie but with one difference. Whereas he expressed himself articulately, he did not introduce misinterpretations into his debate. There was no irrational criticism neither intended nor delivered. I would suggest to both you and he that there are reasons beyond the current financial climate (most of which we engineered ourselves, the quarter a mill plus wasted on Wright being the latest) that lies at the root of our continuing underperformance as a club. 
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The one positive is the emergence of Pawlett, Fyvie & Paton. I think it is no coincidence that this is Lenny Taylor's remit.

 

The same Lenny Taylor that was appointed by Willie Miller?  Why was somebody who, according to you, should be chasing investment, making appointments for who should head up the youth set-up?  ???

 

You have a ridiculous chip on the shoulder for somebody who has turned round the football side of the club both at youth level and the first team since his appointment.

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But his appointment was political and you agree that his biggest mistake cost this club hundreds of thousands. So you can see why Aberdeen fans have the right to question his overall worth.

 

Does this loss include the £million+ made from the UEFA cup run?

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Guest rocket debris

bb. Ok then, it's Frasers fault. You ignore my repeated assertion that Miller said that he would be speaking to "captains of the oil industry", his exact words. The  reality is that it is neither. Miller's naivety in business made him say it in the first place. Shareholding is all.

 

There is no vendetta, personal or otherwise. The facts are facts.

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bb. Ok then, it's Frasers fault. You ignore my repeated assertion that Miller said that he would be speaking to "captains of the oil industry", his exact words. The  reality is that it is neither. Miller's naivety in business made him say it in the first place. Shareholding is all.

 

Feel free to provide facts that the Director of Football said he would be chasing the oil industry for investment, and also why you think that the Director of Football should be including it in his remit.  I'm not disputing but I don't recall hearing this before, but facts are facts apparently.

 

There is no vendetta, personal or otherwise. The facts are facts.

 

:lolabove:

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bb. Ok then, it's Frasers fault. You ignore my repeated assertion that Miller said that he would be speaking to "captains of the oil industry", his exact words. The  reality is that it is neither. Miller's naivety in business made him say it in the first place. Shareholding is all.

 

There is no vendetta, personal or otherwise. The facts are facts.

 

Ever thought that his intentions were to do this, but the fact the playing side was in such a shambles may have changed that?

You should perhaps also bear in mind the restructure of the club, so that the playing side was kept seperate to the finance side.  A rather major point in this debate.  Miller is on the playing side, Fraser on the finance side.

 

I look forward to your diatribes against Duncan Fraser as the investment continues not to roll in.

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I think WM deserves credit for building the team which seems to be bearing fruit for yoof development. I think that's the essence of executive management.

 

I think our inability to sell players without recouping anything is our biggest off the park failing. I think it's the one way to reduce the debt and we have consitently fucked it up. Who is to blame for that? In absence of one person I'll blame all of our managers, WM and Milne. It started well before WM was DoF though.

 

Aberdeen have, for the last 15 years, persevered with all kinds of staff that have failed to win us anything. This is reflected in extended contracts for Mackie, buying back players like Gary Smith after they had already failed and failing to bin players when we have the chance to recoup, Nicholson, Seve. It'll happen with Miller and Mulgrew as well.

 

In my opinion the club lacks ruthlessness in the transfer market, in the boardroom and ultimately this is reflected on the pitch.

 

I think.

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I think our inability to sell players without recouping anything is our biggest off the park failing. I think it's the one way to reduce the debt and we have consitently fucked it up. Who is to blame for that? In absence of one person I'll blame all of our managers, WM and Milne. It started well before WM was DoF though.

 

 

I do agree with the general sentiment but there is more to this than meets the eye bb.  It's tough for a club like Aberdeen to play the system.  To maximise the sell on potential of any player, we really have to sell that player when there is 2-3 years left on the contract. This is likely to mean we have to extend/improve the players deal while there is reasonable time left on the existing contract or get him to re-sign when there is only 6 months or less left.

 

In both cases the player may take the view that while the contract is good for Aberdeen, it isn't good for his future.  The likelihood is that the player involved is in the lower end of the market, if he is wanting a move away from us, the clubs he sees as desireable are likely to have other targets they could turn to if our price is too high because players of a similar standard are coming to the end of their contracts and therefore there is no compensation fee.  There's only one Cristiano Ronaldo and the clubs who were able to sign him knew it would take a big transfer fee to get him as did Man Utd and the player himself, but there are loads of Lee Millers, ye know?

 

So the player himself could be the cause of this as much as the ineptitude or shortsighted-ness of the board.

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I refuse to believe that AFC have not spoken to oil bosses about investment, the fact the companies haven't invested is up to them.

 

That said surely any major fund raising effort should include Willie Miller? He is after all arguably the greatest player in the club's history, other greats such as Joe Harper would be willing to assist talking to companies as they have publicly said before. There must be someone somewhere with money who would release some of that from some sweet talking by Miller and Co.

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To maximise the sell on potential of any player, we really have to sell that player when there is 2-3 years left on the contract. This is likely to mean we have to extend/improve the players deal while there is reasonable time left on the existing contract or get him to re-sign when there is only 6 months or less left.

 

I think this is the intention with the long contracts we've got the likes of Paton and Pawlett on. Sign them up for a decent length of period, and sell them whilst they have the "huge potential" tag.

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Its hard to deal with but by the same token we should probably be looking at offers for Fyvie at the end of this season. His stock is rising and he is not going to sign another contract at Aberdeen so we have to get a wedge for him now otherwise he moves into pre-contract territiory pretty quickly next season ( I think?) and we will lose him with nothing but a small compensation cheque for his age. 

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Its hard to deal with but by the same token we should probably be looking at offers for Fyvie at the end of this season. His stock is rising and he is not going to sign another contract at Aberdeen so we have to get a wedge for him now otherwise he moves into pre-contract territiory pretty quickly next season ( I think?) and we will lose him with nothing but a small compensation cheque for his age.

 

:wave:

 

;)

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I refuse to believe that AFC have not spoken to oil bosses about investment, the fact the companies haven't invested is up to them.

 

That said surely any major fund raising effort should include Willie Miller? He is after all arguably the greatest player in the club's history, other greats such as Joe Harper would be willing to assist talking to companies as they have publicly said before. There must be someone somewhere with money who would release some of that from some sweet talking by Miller and Co.

 

Callum Melville. He was keen on investing in the Dons. But the thought of his money being spent as Wiggy wanted was enough to persuade him to invest in Dundee, rather than invest in the club he supports.

 

I think one of the major stumbling blocks with attempts to seek investment is nobody wants to invest in Aberdeen FC whilst Stewart Milne is in charge. There's SO SO SSSOOOOOO much money that's been pissed down the drain thanks to his leadership .... see two failed stock exchange excursions in the mid 90s.

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Callum Melville. He was keen on investing in the Dons. But the thought of his money being spent as Wiggy wanted was enough to persuade him to invest in Dundee, rather than invest in the club he supports.

 

 

 

Where do you get that from? I thought he was widely quoted as saying he didn't invest in Aberdeen as he didn't want the hassle that would come with it. Nothing to do with Stewart Milne.

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