Garlogie_Granite

The planning and transport considerations in the case of this are more than onerous.  They are pivotal.

 

Everyone's perceptions are different as well. I drove down A944 on Friday at 3pm and it is not far from Hazlehead but the road was very busy, lots of roundabouts.

 

 

There is ONE roundabout, plus the temporary one under the AWPR flyover.

 

 

Do you know that road A944? Have you drive on it?  Do you know how it links up these places i.e. Kingswells, Westhill, Elrick etc?  Have you driven out to these towns and seen on an ordinary day the problems with traffic?  Have you seen the roundabouts?  Bus lanes proposal is nonsensical.

 

<<<<<The clue is in my username.

 

Yes, traffic is bad, thoguh even during rush hour, by 9am and by 6pm traffic is normal.

 

And of course, there's nothing like the traffic for a fitba match that there is during rush hour. So fit's the issue?

They're planning to move stadium. They're building a new railway station and they are trying to secure land next to it. They've accepted that relying on buses is not a suitable transport strategy should they wish to grow the stadium.

 

Aberdeen are trying to do the opposite.

Oxford has as near as makes no difference, banned cars.

 

Kingsford is at the crossroads of two dual carraigeways.

 

po-tay-to / po-tah-to

Have some Simmies

I enjoyed Glengoyne tour like, and I took my niece afore she could walk. She had to avoid one of the rooms, but they were fine about it and her ma just took her out and re-joined the tour for a couple of bits where she was greeting. Awesome whisky too like, a big favourite of mine. GlenDronach and Glen Garioch supposed to be good ina if yer nae interested in travelling too far. Knockdhu might be worth a shot ina. Let us ken foo ye get on.

Will do, it'll be August, just getting prepared 

Will be dragging some unsuspecting guffy relatives around a distillery in the summer, what in your opinion is the best? Only ever done Glenmorangie, and it's too far away.

 

Had Strathisla & Glenfiddich suggested, Glenfiddich seems un-child friendly, and there will be a toddler along for the ride.

Kingslinks and a host of other location have been ruled out by the club for the basic reason that they do not want the cost and politics of buying land from ACC.

 

If you are going to get into discussions about sands, etc then land at Kingsford is not perfect.  There is asbestos that will have to be dislodged for work to happen.  Asbestos is a killer but sand is not.

 

Aberdeen City Council are desperate for cash (public sector) they have lord knows how many public parks and land available across the city for development.  Kingslinks (beside Broadhill behind ballroom) was used regularly by the club during Skhovdhal era for training everyday. 

 

There are public parks north, south, east, west of the city. When we were the best team in Europe we trained on one of them - Seaton Park.

 

Milne does not want to engage in land purchase from Council.  He doesn't like them ideologically.  Hence Kingslink being ruled out.

 

He wants a 100% private enterprise i.e. money lining the pockets of a private few rather than the public purse.

 

He is a total Tory. 

 

So you see there are many areas of the city that the club could partner the Council via and collaborate in a public/private joint venture way towards a new stadium being built.

 

Stewart Milne and Yule do not want that.  They want a 100% private investment and to give Council the big v-signs.

 

In the Kingsford case again however, its going to be a NO.

 

Back to the drawing board.  Its all so political.

Breathtaking arrogance.

 

So any public space is ok to lose, but a landfill park with no discernable value is an awful choice. Incredible.

 

And "lining the pockets" of the brothers whose land it is, and who (with their father before them) have farmed it longer than I've been alive, and whose value is very small due to, you know, it being nothing more than landfill, is hardy the "private few".

 

Again, you fail to back up your claim that the council are offering a specific alternative site. Your new claim that they've been offered a host of others sites is also nothing but hyperbole.

Its already been discussed on this thread if you pay attention.

 

ACC identified and held a consultation with AFC.  Kingslinks (30 seconds from Pittodrie) was identified as ideal location for stadium, training ground etc. It would have all allowed Pittodrie to be flattened, flats built and a new stadium adjacent to the old one.

Ah so, there's nothing on the table from ACC, which is what you alluded to?

 

Kings Links has been ruled out due to cost and size. 

ACC, Aberdeen Univ and RGU have on a number of occasions worked and consulted with AFC as regards training facilities e.g. Kingslinks.

 

The club have knocked these plans back and decided not to progress in an effort to press on with Kingsford/Loriston etc.

 

Kinsgford is plan C.

 

As Kingsford is dying on its arse transport wise where is Plan D going to be located?

 

I open the floor.........

You've told us you know the location offered by ACC, please spill the beans

The edge of the city 55% goes out to Bridge of Don, Bucksburn, Cults and Cove. Harder would be Northfield and Garthdee.

 

If you've never met people who go out in the city before football then I don't even know. Over half do.

 

Dropping off because the transport options are very poor and very limited for 3 times as many people. Why don't you get a bus to games to Union Street? Why do you think folk will do this to out there?

Going out in the city is not the same as "wanting" to be in the city, they're out in the city because that's where the stadium is.

 

I'd be astonished if this accounted for more than half of all fans. Plenty don;t go to pubs at all, those that do will find new places to drink in, or drink in town and get a bus/lift.

I acknowledge the upside which is it's easier to drive to from the shire. There's no future in that.

There's a ton of future in that, you won't lose a single shire fan, plus it will without doubt bring fans who rarely if ever go because now they don't have to navigate all the way through town and then out again with heavy post-match traffic.

 

The core walking and pub going support is gone. 500 from the Westhill area is not a base for a club this size.

The Core support is not walkers. 55% of STs go to city dwellers, ALL city dwellers. I'd bet you're lucky if 1000 fans actually walk to the game solely, and not having first got a bus/car/train into the city.

 

As I said before, you've large areas of the city where they'll actually be better off, so again if anything you're likely to see an uptick in support from those areas too.

 

So that just leaves the city centre/King st/Seaton locales as foot soldiers. Yes some will go never to return, but plenty will keep going to games. The upside is ease of access for the whole shire, and half or more of the city.

I've no connection to No Kingsford group.

oh Heather

 

 

 

At least 4 of those areas which are large percentages don't count in the city half (and 2 are a lot harder)[1]. The people that want to be in the city before the match what about them?[2]

 

3000 dropping off for whatever reason would be replaced by who?[3] Are there Aberdeen fans all over Aberdeenshire desperate to go to Westhill instead of Aberdeen?[4]

 

[1] Yes they are, that's how the analysis works, if you're in the city, then it's counted as being in the city.  Which 2, for accuracies sake, are harder then?

 

[2] Who? Who is going to the football, but has to be in the city first? I've never met one of these 'AFC fans'?

 

[3] Nearly 33% of our crowd dropping off cos of what? Half our fans come from Aberdeen, ALL of Aberdeen, some of those are in wealking distance of the stadium, lets be generous to you considering the size of aberdeen, and say that means 25% walk. You're now saying that more than the walkers will not go to Kingsford when people will find it easier? Wise up.

 

[4]Well you're talking to one. In an office of four, one being a woman, my colleague (who lives in Westhill) is thinking he'll get a ST when the ground moves, and yet now only ever goes if he gets a corporate off a client. Yes that's hearsay and anecdotal, but hey, it's harder facts than what you're coming up with.

I have no intention of getting involved much further in pathetic virtual/cyber arguments about 'not being a AFC fan' and being 'a member of No Kingsford Campaign' or being 'Charlie somebody'.

 

Apologies my fellow AFC fans for quoting this again, but I'd missed this from Heather's earlier post, does anyone know anyone that calls themselves an "AFC fan"? Who on earth does that except an imposter, a non-football fan, indeed a non-AFC fan 

 

 

The point of training facilities is they don't have guaranteed pitches to use at the moment. I've not seen McInnes or anyone complain about anything else.

 

Just having a pitch and pavilion is the case all over the world.

To be fair to you, it's oft been said that Man Utd's Carrington is indeed just like Sheddocksley 

Surely you're more concerned about it being harder for a huge percentage of current crowds and season ticket holders or what's the thinking there? For you not being in the city is a good thing and for over half it's part of the day.

You didnt even read and think there did you?

 

Only a small percentage of the current half of our fanbase will be disadvantaged. We're starting from a point where 50% (all the tuechters) will be better off.

 

Then many of the other 50% will be better off travel wise or no difference, think Dyce, Bucksburn, Sheddocksley, Mastrick, Northfield, Hazelhead,  Culter, Cults, Milltimber, Bieldside, Garthdee, Cove.

 

So yes, those in central Aberdeen, Seaton, Linksfield, Tilly, Bridge of Don, yes those guys will be worse off, they've had it good forever, they have no devine right to be able to (almost) walk to every home game.

 

Let's assume all of the former groups still go - because why wouldnt they now when it's easier to get to?

 

Let's also assume that most of the latter group still go - because they're dons fans, but there will be a drop off.

 

Now where does the gain come - from all over the hinterland,because like me, those who do actually have a decent commute to make to get to "Pittodrie" will suddenly have a much reduced travel, whereas those on the king st area (the "worst affected") will have the massive 6 mile journey to make that they previously didn't. The upside is massive, the downside is small.

 

Best location was Bellfield, but the Kingswells NIMBYs blew that up 15 years ago, don't let the Westhill W.A.N.K.S. do the same!!!

 

 

 

 

 

The places they've used for years are barely professional either

 

 

That's the bloody point ffs!  :hammer: :hammer: >

 

 

Appreciate £6 mounts up but surely a significant number of people from within the city already spend that money on buses seeing as it's not possible to walk from everywhere in Aberdeen to pittodrie?

It's a nonsensical argument ED, it's assuming that for every fan being possibly inconvenienced, there is no-one who will be advantaged. It's been the argument behind nearly every anti-mover since this possibility first emerged, and has been adopted by the W.A.N.K.S latterly.

 

What it surely willfully ignores, is those who are now convenienced by this change, I'm one such recipient, as a country loon, I've never held a ST, I don't make every game, and one of the reasons is the horrible location of Pittodrie, some days you just don't want to go through toon and suffer the search for a parking spot, and then the fight to get back across King Street to get home again afterwards (especially midweek games as I'm an early riser). Move to Kingsford and I will proudly buy my first ever season ticket, hell, I'll be first in the bloody queue!

 

Large areas of Aberdeen will find getting to Kingsford much easier than getting to Pittodrie, and everyone in the country will, everyone, bar none, from the south you take the AWPR and never hit the city, from the north you hit the AWPR at Balmedie and never hit the city, from the A96 you get onto the AWPR at Craibstone and never have to suffer the slog along Auchmill Rd & Great Northern Rd, and from Deeside/Donside, you get to Westhill, and stop, the end, sheer bliss.

 

So yes, personally I'm a huge beneficiary, but trust me, if I thought it would hurt the club, I'd be fully against this, because the last thing we need after 19 years of decline, is for the subsequent three years of resurgence to go backwards due to the building of a white elephant. But I don't believe it will be, I honestly believe that building somewhere that has great transport access will address Aberdeen's long standing sore - why cant we get the crowds that our success at various stages merits? - and that's because Pittodrie has always been in the wrong place.

I have no intention of getting involved much further in pathetic virtual/cyber arguments about 'not being a AFC fan' and being 'a member of No Kingsford Campaign' or being 'Charlie somebody'..

 

My apologies, I recognise your style now, welcome to the forum Heather, you'll know me from our frequent emails of late. 

 

 

 

Nobody seems to appreciate that Kingsford, its not about land being available or deliverable.  The site is not accessible by foot, cars and bicycles and contravenes just about every single planning statute and regulation going.

Well, forgive me here, but having lived all my life in the area, there's a cycle lane, a pavement, and a fucking dual carriageway running right along the edge of the landfill field that is the site of the new stadium. Right up to the fence in that field. It couldn't be more accessible by all modes of transport as far as sites in the north east goes.

 

 

You can't just build something as 'we need a new stadium' and this land is available. Does not work that way. 

 

What else do the locals on here need to appreciate this?

"we", it's "we" when talking about "us", unless of course thats an unintended slip in your cunning disguise?

 

And yes "you" can just do that, it's what nearly every town in the country does, except Aberdeen, it's why even a financially crippled (in comparison) Dundee has been so innovative and forward looking, while Aberdeen has a well deserved reputation as NIMBY city.

 

 

 

 

June 20th I will be back on here and having a laugh as our clubs 'vision' goes down the tiolet........

Aye, some fan you eh? It's funny, you know so much about forums, and yet are nowhere on any of them until yesterday, when you signed up to vent your pro-W.A.N.K.S. and anti-Dons agenda, some would say that's suspicious, but not me, I'm sure you;re a fan really.

 

 

Anyway, about that "well known bit of land that ACC are donating", care to expand, because nobody knows anything about it?

The X40 goes from the park and ride to Merkland Road and has 21 cars parked at it during a game.

I had no idea, I shun buses.

Aye but will 4 times as much in such a supposedly great location cost the same? I don't know I'm asking.

Kingsford is brownfield, it's landfill, it's never used as arable land, it's cheap.

 

kings Links doesnt just have land, it has a large driving range to be bought out and demolition costs, plus the huge cost of stabilising the sand base.

 

 

The land at kingsford is 4 times the size of the golf centre and cricket pitch.

and this is a negative how? 

Anyone that lives in or near those areas and drives to Pittodrie, why aren't they taking the bus or driving to a park and ride and taking the bus? For the same reason, nobody is going to do the equivalent to westhill and it's pie in the sky. Relying on 6000 to 10000 doing that is madness and not a small change to get used to.

Because if you park at kingswells, you're still over 4 miles from the city centre, 20 minutes on the bus, and then of course 20 minute walk to Pittodrie. On weekdays, is the bus taking you where you even want to go?

 

Conversely, people going the other way will be parked 20 minutes walk away, or they take the P&E bus that final mile, which is considerably different.

 

Anyway I've seen a few mentions of the Council offering alternative sites.

If this is to continue I want to see actual evidence particularly given the dodgy goings on that ACC have been accused of in terms of land sales over the last 20 years.

Utter fabrication which is why 100% Anti Kingsford Charlie Love did a runner as soon as it was questioned.