As far as I'm concerned one of the major problems with Scottish fitba and the main contributor to poor crowds is the declining standard of the product on the park due to teams being too scared to actually try and win games.

 

Too many teams are more concerned with not losing rather than going all out to win. For example, Rangers playing with one up front in league games even at home and St Mirren holding on desperately to their point on saturday by wasting every minute possible. St Mirren have no chance of making the top 6 and no chance of being relegated so what fucking difference will 1 point make to their season now? Could they not have gone and out and tried to entertain their small band of fans?

 

I read a report of the Killie-ICT game that took place this weekend and they were praising the Killie style of play and wondering why it hasnt been evident for the rest of the season- cos Killie can play without the fear of relegation now. There are good players in the SPL but too many are being held back by the constraints of managers whose only concern is not to lose.

 

IMO if the SPL wants the standard to increase they have to try and eliminate the fear factor. The only way I can see this happening is if the league format is changed, with a 16 team league and two relegation/promotion places. Fans are getting more bored by the season and the Self Preservation League needs a good fucking boot up the arse to release the potential that exists.

Part of the problem is English football being on tv too much. If Scottish football highlights were on tv instead of MOTD there would be less Chelsea, Man U, Liverpool and Arsenal "fans" who are born and bred in the Aberdeen area.

Exactly. The standard in England is just as pish frequently, but the sheep fall for the hype. What the league needs first and foremost is good quality coverage, andcommentators/colour guys who do not put down the standard of the game at every opportunity.

Exactly. The standard in England is just as pish frequently, but the sheep fall for the hype. What the league needs first and foremost is good quality coverage, andcommentators/colour guys who do not put down the standard of the game at every opportunity.

 

The standard in England CAN be pish - Derby, Fulham, Boro and Bolton are fucking gash to watch in the EPL - and the level of entertainment in the Championship is close to zero. But then, I have no interest in watching Scottish Football other than Aberdeen. That is nothing to do with what commentators say about it, but everything to do with the product offending my eyes - maybe give people the benefit of the doubt in that they can make their own minds up about things.

The standard in England CAN be pish - Derby, Fulham, Boro and Bolton are fucking gash to watch in the EPL - and the level of entertainment in the Championship is close to zero. But then, I have no interest in watching Scottish Football other than Aberdeen. That is nothing to do with what commentators say about it, but everything to do with the product offending my eyes - maybe give people the benefit of the doubt in that they can make their own minds up about things.

Which is basically what I said. However how many wank on about how great the EPL is, and that includes the likes of Nicholas & McInally. Of course they are on SKY's books so they have to toe the line, but watching my first La Liga game this Sunday for quite a while (Real v Valencia) and it's a long time since I've seen any English game that had the same amount of entertainment.

 

I actually went out of my way not to watch the Super Wankathon this weekend, as I'm sick to the back teeth of the hype around the big 3 & Liverpool, which invariably turns out to be shite games anyway.

 

The majority of the Premiership is unwatchable - Villa, Newcastle, Sundelrand, Wigan, West Ham, Blackburn, Reading &  Man City all produce regularly dull games, with Chelsea and Pompey also pretty culpable on many occassions.

 

Only Arsenal, Man U & Spurs can almost guarantee you something worth watching in any random match.

To be fair, Newcastle have provided some great viewing this season!

Only Arsenal, Man U & Spurs can almost guarantee you something worth watching in any random match.

 

But then, it's three more teams than the SPL can come up with.

 

If you went out your way to avoid the matches cos of the hype, can you not just watch the match but not the build up? or do what i do, watch the match with music on and the volume turned down on the TV? More often than not, you're not going to get a goal fest in these matches cos they are the teams with the best defences, that just has to be accepted.

 

I'd say as far as Scottish football goes, I think it's far more important getting more people through the gates than television coverage at the moment. If the attendances improve, it will have a knock on effect with regards media exposure. However, if you continue to ask for over £20 for a near meaningless game with a club 2nd bottom of the league, you're always going to struggle with attendances.

But then, it's three more teams than the SPL can come up with.

 

 

 

You absolute Philistine!

 

Have you never stared in utter awe at the mesmeric football played by Hibs and Falkirk?

You absolute Philistine!

 

Have you never stared in utter awe at the mesmeric football played by Hibs and Falkirk?

 

Granted, I did forget about the Brazil 1970 and Holland 1974 re-incarnates 

In a 16 team league with 2/3 for CL spot you should have 4/5 teams maybe competing for those spots, plus a 3rd/2nd botton play off with 2nd and 3rd from div 1 would give plenty of meaningful games. However, I do feel that 'meaningless' games allow teams to simply go out and relax and play - you can introduce younger players and give them an opportunity. With every game so important you don't usually get to blood youth appropriately and the games are full of fear factor that usually lack quality. The average Scottish fan wants instant entertainment, ball in the box etc and instant gratification - the 16 team league doesn't necessarily give that though.

The EPL is often shite. It's rare you get a great game between boro and bolton. It looks good because of the whole package( good full stadia, nice pitches and great coverage). They have millions thrown at them by sky because the fa run it fairly well. I believe all clubs get a fair share of the tv money regardless how often they are shown. Their fa try to look after every club and not just the interests of the "big" clubs.

The SPL is poorly run with the interests of the scum at heart. The celthunta deal hardly benefits the other 10 clubs because of poor negotiation and trying to keep the old firm happy. Most of this is the SFA/SPLs fault. The money is unfairly distrubuted and other teams not on telly often enough( usually only when they play the old firm). Again poor negotiation and poorly run.

The split alone makes the league a laughing stock. A team fighting relegtion v a team going for europe/title = great excitement.

2 organisations is too many. We have too many clubs for a country our size. 

 

The EPL is often shite. It's rare you get a great game between boro and bolton. It looks good because of the whole package( good full stadia, nice pitches and great coverage).

Camera angles make a surprising difference. West Ham actually rebuilt their gantry last season with SKYs help, because their old gantry wasn't the best for showing football on telly.

 

Take the OF for example, it looks like any EPL ground/game on telly, because they have bigger stands and so can get the cameras higher. Then look at ny other SPL team, it looks like lower league in England, because the grounds and state of the pitch ar similar. This as much as anything skews the viewer into thinking that the product is on a par. They just can't see past the packaging.

They just can't see past the packaging.

 

Agree entirely.

I would much rather watch Boro v Bolton than Gretna v St Mirren I'm afraid.

Sory Robo but you're buying into the hype. If everyone who says that went to a scottish game then our game would be in a better state. And yes I'm guilty of it as well.

I'm not sucked in by the hype, different strokes different folks, I would rather sit down and watch an EPL game than SPL game. You can't tell me that St Mirren v Gretna would make for good viewing? There is absolutely no way.

 

I've followed Scottish Football for years, and I've seen no change in it what so ever, its still boring.....and the dropping in crowds at every stadium shows that. Scottish Football has been on the decrease for years now, and not a thing has been done about it. If SFA could find ways for the teams to close the gap at the top between the OF and I'm pretty sure infact I'm 100% positive the Scottish game would be a better game to watch! It just doesn't appeal to me like it used to I'm afraid.

 

Its a matter of an opinion really.

The problem with Scottish football is we don't support our own game, we call it shite, downplay achievments and actively support another country's league. When Sky dropped our football Scotland should have dropped them. Can you imagine the English public, en masse, buying a television system which gave money to another countries football system? I can't.

 

MOTD, more accurately the BBC, are just as bad. Where is our Saturday night highlights polished highlights package instead of MOTD? I remember when there was one.

 

Our game is slowly being eroded by these two organisations in favour of them funding Bolton to pay Kevin Nolan 80k a week and I don't think we can begin to complain about it because we do fuck all about it.

 

The problem with Scottish football is we don't support our own game, we call it shite, downplay achievments and actively support another country's league. When Sky dropped our football Scotland should have dropped them. Can you imagine the English public, en masse, buying a television system which gave money to another countries football system? I can't.

 

MOTD, more accurately the BBC, are just as bad. Where is our Saturday night highlights polished highlights package instead of MOTD? I remember when there was one.

 

Our game is slowly being eroded by these two organisations in favour of them funding Bolton to pay Kevin Nolan 80k a week and I don't think we can begin to complain about it because we do fuck all about it.

 

 

Scotland (or the SPL to be more accurate) are as much to blame for Sky dropping our games as anyone else. They effectively priced themselves out of a deal with Sky. It was the SPL's greed that got them dropped by Sky. But once again people in this country want to blame anyone apart from themselves.

 

My subscription to sky is more for La Liga than the EPL. For just over a tenner a month or whatever it is that part of the subscription takes up, do you honestly expect people to give that up just out of some blind loyalty to a product that is vastly over priced (4 games a month = £80+ for tickets alone)?

 

I don't disagree with your sentiment, but instead of all of us continually saying "if people didn't watch the EPL on Sky blah blah blah blah...", maybe if the league or the clubs actually tried to do something constructive to get fans back it would see an upturn in attendances?

 

The obsession in this country with all things English and the chip in the shoulder it then produces holds our sports back as much as anything else. A mate of mine this morning said that there had been talk of Scotland applauding the Croatian side on to the park on Wednesday... had they qualified from a group that didn't include the English would this have been spoken about? I doubt it. And until that attitude changes, we're always going to be held back to a degree.

When Sky dropped our football Scotland should have dropped them.

 

Roger Mitchell turned doon 40million 

Aye, sorry, my emphasis was really on the Scottish public and not the TV companies. Sky and BBC are just supplying the demand.

 

 

 

There was an interesting article in yesterday's Guardian by none other than that famous football fan Germaine Greer

 

Anyway, the gist of what she was talking about was the Government's attitude towards popular pastimes like football.  Her argument was about the dept of Culture, Media & Sport ploughing millions into opera, dance & the arts, refurbishing run-down theatres etc etc, and that these "arts" have only a very limited following compared to football.  WHereas, the implied large following of football fans means that the Govt turn a blind eye to funding football with the attitude "ach the fans will pay for it with their blind allegiance".  Her point was that the Government should be doing more to encourage the more popular pastime.

 

Moral of the story could easily be applied here:  clubs going out of business in the most widely supported pastime in Scotland, but run-down white elephants being funded all over the country to serve a minimal spread of interest among the more affluent.

 

The SFA needs to take control of the whole Scottish League and get proper support from the Scottish Government as to how to sell the game properly.

There was an interesting article in yesterday's Guardian by none other than that famous football fan Germaine Greer

 

Anyway, the gist of what she was talking about was the Government's attitude towards popular pastimes like football.  Her argument was about the dept of Culture, Media & Sport ploughing millions into opera, dance & the arts, refurbishing run-down theatres etc etc, and that these "arts" have only a very limited following compared to football.  WHereas, the implied large following of football fans means that the Govt turn a blind eye to funding football with the attitude "ach the fans will pay for it with their blind allegiance".  Her point was that the Government should be doing more to encourage the more popular pastime.

 

Moral of the story could easily be applied here:  clubs going out of business in the most widely supported pastime in Scotland, but run-down white elephants being funded all over the country to serve a minimal spread of interest among the more affluent.

 

The SFA needs to take control of the whole Scottish League and get proper support from the Scottish Government as to how to sell the game properly.

 

Vive le revolucion!

Insightful stuff from Germaine and I fully agree.

 

In the grand scheme of things, the collapse of AFC would negatively influence a larger number of individuals, businesses etc than the proposed closure of an Ice Rink or a Swimming pool. SportScotland/Holyrood/whoever should be placing a much greater emphasis on the importance of football teams to cities and communties and help them out appropriately.

Insightful stuff from Germaine and I fully agree.

 

In the grand scheme of things, the collapse of AFC would negatively influence a larger number of individuals, businesses etc than the proposed closure of an Ice Rink or a Swimming pool. SportScotland/Holyrood/whoever should be placing a much greater emphasis on the importance of football teams to cities and communties and help them out appropriately.

 

But with that kind of attitude, you are restricting people to fewer options of what sports to participate in.

 

The football team in a city, in this case AFC, adds a lot to the economy, yes. Lots of people of varying ages can go along and watch us play every second week. But the facilities at Pittodrie (we won't go into the ifs and buts of having a community stadium for now) aren't available to the public outwith these match days, so the decision to close swimming pools/ice rinks in local areas that kids/adults/pensioners can use to get fit and healthy and take part in exercise (something the Government is trying to promote, allegedly) shouldn't be based on the idea that less businesses would suffer than if AFC were to go down the Gretna road. They aren't comparable.

 

'The importance of football teams' is a narrow minded football fans' opinion in my view. Thankfully we are all grown ups here who appreciate that life and the economy does not revolve around football. (A golf course on the Aberdeenshire coast would work wonders on the economy though...take note John Swinney...)

The SFA needs to take control of the whole Scottish League and get proper support from the Scottish Government as to how to sell the game properly.

and we come to the crux of the problem.

It is farcicial for a country the size of Scotland to have 4 national bodies governing the sport (SFA, SFL, SPL and SJA), never mind the myriad of senior leagues.

 

This conversation talked started talking about removing the fear and letting teams relax more, only to then go on and advocate 2 relegation spots.

 

The whole senior set up needs streamlined, but tbh the top 12 as it is, is probably the best we're going to get at present.  The only immediate change I would make is a 2nd relegation/play off spot.  We simply don't have enough fans or sufficient quality of teams to go increasing the league to 14 or 16 and leagues of this size are just as likely to require contrived compromises such as playing each team 3times or "group stages" in the league cup.

 

I would have an SPL1 and SPL2 then regionalise everything below it. Incorporate Highland League, South and East of Scotland leagues and the Junior set up and have the SFA control the lot, disbanding the SFL, SPL and SJA.

It may happen one day but with some much self interest in the football it won't happen any time soon

The problem with Scottish football is we don't support our own game, we call it shite, downplay achievments and actively support another country's league. When Sky dropped our football Scotland should have dropped them. Can you imagine the English public, en masse, buying a television system which gave money to another countries football system? I can't.

 

MOTD, more accurately the BBC, are just as bad. Where is our Saturday night highlights polished highlights package instead of MOTD? I remember when there was one.

 

Our game is slowly being eroded by these two organisations in favour of them funding Bolton to pay Kevin Nolan 80k a week and I don't think we can begin to complain about it because we do fuck all about it.

 

Tremendous post Bilbo, summed it up in one. Have an "applaud" from  me  :thumbsup:

I think the problem with Scottish Football is that us Scots are quick to blame the English for providing a better product.

 

So what if the quality of football the EPL offers is shite? More credit to them for being able to market this 'shite' football to millions of viewers around the world through TV and thousands of fans in stadia on matchdays - making them a fortune.

 

The problems of Scottish football are entirely that. Scottish problems.

 

I entirely agree with the comments of BTR and glasgowsheep re: the setup of the league and (dis)organisations which govern the sport in Scotland.