tom_widdows Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Has anyone at the FA been implicated in this by the way? According to several Tottenham fans they came very close to a similar situation in the 1981 semi final with wolves Be interesting to know the experiences of any Leeds fans in the 1987 semi final or in fact Liverpool fans in the 1988 one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glasgow sheep Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Has anyone at the FA been implicated in this by the way? According to several Tottenham fans they came very close to a similar situation in the 1981 semi final with wolves Be interesting to know the experiences of any Leeds fans in the 1987 semi final or in fact Liverpool fans in the 1988 one http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/sep/12/hillsborough-truth-about-causes-of-disaster?intcmp=239 The Hillsborough Panel found the safety of fans admitted to the terrace at the Leppings Lane end of the ground was "compromised at every level". From the condition of the turnstiles to the management of the crowd, alterations to the terrace, the construction of the "pens" in which fans were held, the placement of the crush barriers and the access to the fateful central pens via a tunnel with a one in six gradient. The deficiencies were "well known" and made the crush on 15 April 1989 foreseeable. According to documents disclosed to the inquiry, there was a serious crush on the terrace at the 1981 FA Cup semi-final between Tottenham Hotspur and Wolverhampton Wanderers in which "many people were injured and fatalities narrowly avoided". New documents show following that incident there was a breakdown in the relationship between Sheffield Wednesday and South Yorkshire Police, which considered the capacity of the terrace too high at 10,100. The ground was not used for semi finals again until 1987, by which time there had been various moderations and alterations – none of which led to revised safety certificates. Recommendations to feed the pens from designated turnstiles, enabling the club to monitor the number of fans in each one, were ignored because it would cost too much. "It is evident from the disclosed documents that South Yorkshire Police were preoccupied with crowd management [but] ... Sheffield Wednesday's primary concern was to limit costs." The issue of congested access to the turnstiles remained unresolved, with over 24,000 fans entering through 23 turnstiles at Leppings Lane. The panel found that key issues were not "discussed or recorded" at annual safety inspections. There was a delayed kick off at the 1987 FA Cup semi-final and crushing at the 1988 semi-final. The debriefings from both were "inadequate". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kowalski Posted September 13, 2012 Author Share Posted September 13, 2012 The FA should never have used Hillsborough until it had the appropriate safety certification. This makes the FA every bit as culpable, if not more so, than South Yorkshire Police. Have to admit, I was in the Boris Johnston camp for a while, in that it seemed Liverpool were constantly wallowing in self pity but after yesterday's revelations I cannot have anything other than complete sympathy for all families related to the 96. It must be one of the biggest cover ups in UK history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maverick sheep Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Alex Thompson doorstepped Kelvin Cunt Mackenzie this morning. https://twitter.com/alextomo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kowalski Posted September 18, 2012 Author Share Posted September 18, 2012 Alex Thompson doorstepped Kelvin Cunt Mackenzie this morning. https://twitter.com/alextomo MacKenzie's "apology" last week was a total load of shite. He is a cunt of the highest order and needs to be banned from the likes of Panorama. He should receive no fee from the BBC ever again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc_don Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 MacKenzie's "apology" last week was a total load of shite. He is a cunt of the highest order and needs to be banned from the likes of Panorama. He should receive no fee from the BBC ever again. Very much so this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kowalski Posted September 18, 2012 Author Share Posted September 18, 2012 Tomo blog: http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/mackenzie-hillsborough-lies/2697 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glasgow sheep Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Enjoy http://www.channel4.com/news/kelvin-mackenzie-doorstepped-by-channel-4-news Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlg1903 Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Its hard not to have a bit of a man crush on Alex Thompson in the past 6 months Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrant Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 I'm sorry but this bothers me. What happened that day was an accident, a terrible accident but an accident all the same. No-one conspired to kill a load of Liverpool fans. Poor decisions were made, people behaved as people do and huge confusion ensued resulting in people dying. I know as a parent that if it was my child I would want someone to blame but surely there comes a time when you have to accept that no matter who did what, it was still an accident. Likewise I'd like to believe that if i was in a position that could have changed events I would have done so but in reality I'm sure it was fucking carnage whereby no one was really certain what was actually happening. It's all very well trying to anoint blame and there are several things on both sides that could have been done differently, but once the shit hits the fan it is human nature to self preserve. RIP not the just the 96 of Hillsborough but the hundreds that have passed away in dreadful accidents at football grounds. Why does this bother you? Do you actually think that or is it because you don't like Liverpool as a club? Actually it doesn't matter - either excuse is pathetic to be honest. This is not about one club or another. This is about 96 men, women and children that died. No one doubts what happened was an accident but that's beside the point. 96 people died because of firstly, a poor choice of venue made by the FA, secondly because the police opened exit gates to allow fans to flood in and thirdly the emergency services' failure to deal with it professionally. Then on top of that medical help was knowingly prevented from getting to the scene and to top all this off the police realise how momentously they've fucked this up and then go about changing scores and scores of statements to try and get themselves out of the shit they got themselves into. Meanwhile the families and friends of the dead (not having been through enough apparently) have to read (or hear about) the utter, utter reprehensible blatant lies printed by The Sun. But you want the families to just "accept it was an accident"? The situation could have and should have been dealt with in such a fashion that lives would have been saved. This didn't happen so for that surely an apology should be made. But never mind that. Let's try and turn it around and blame the fans eh? The people responsible for the cover up should be fucking locked up along with those whose actions worsened the death toll. Liverpool fans have campaigned tirelessly for justice and I'm so very happy for them that they've finally got it. Better late than never. I've heard this "wollowing in self pity" shite before but I dismissed it as anti-Liverpool shite because when I fully learned of the events of Hillsborough and the cover up I immediately understood straight away why the fans were relentless in their efforts for justice even if it did seem like they were going on and on. I was at a game a few seasons back and the Kop held up banners and chanted "justice for the 96" non stop for the whole half. I understand why completely. I have no affiliation with Liverpool although I've followed them since the 90s and I'm honestly proud of the fans. Their loyalty to each other is amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandy Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Great post. Agree with the sentiments totally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maverick sheep Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Liverpool in general. The evertonians and non-football people have conducted themselves well. solidarity and such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldie03 Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 I still cry every time I read or watch a news report on Hillsborough 96 folk went to a football match and never returned Then we listened for years to the police lying about their own incompetence I want justice as a football fan so I cannot begin to imagine how the families must feel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilbobaggins Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Why does this bother you? Do you actually think that or is it because you don't like Liverpool as a club? Actually it doesn't matter - either excuse is pathetic to be honest. This is not about one club or another. This is about 96 men, women and children that died. No one doubts what happened was an accident but that's beside the point. 96 people died because of firstly, a poor choice of venue made by the FA, secondly because the police opened exit gates to allow fans to flood in and thirdly the emergency services' failure to deal with it professionally. Then on top of that medical help was knowingly prevented from getting to the scene and to top all this off the police realise how momentously they've fucked this up and then go about changing scores and scores of statements to try and get themselves out of the shit they got themselves into. Meanwhile the families and friends of the dead (not having been through enough apparently) have to read (or hear about) the utter, utter reprehensible blatant lies printed by The Sun. But you want the families to just "accept it was an accident"? The situation could have and should have been dealt with in such a fashion that lives would have been saved. This didn't happen so for that surely an apology should be made. But never mind that. Let's try and turn it around and blame the fans eh? The people responsible for the cover up should be fucking locked up along with those whose actions worsened the death toll. Liverpool fans have campaigned tirelessly for justice and I'm so very happy for them that they've finally got it. Better late than never. I've heard this "wollowing in self pity" shite before but I dismissed it as anti-Liverpool shite because when I fully learned of the events of Hillsborough and the cover up I immediately understood straight away why the fans were relentless in their efforts for justice even if it did seem like they were going on and on. I was at a game a few seasons back and the Kop held up banners and chanted "justice for the 96" non stop for the whole half. I understand why completely. I have no affiliation with Liverpool although I've followed them since the 90s and I'm honestly proud of the fans. Their loyalty to each other is amazing. +1 Although I don't think the families have justice yet. They now have the uncensored story and an apology for the cover up. Justice will come when those responsible are held to account for their incompetence on the day and subsequent lies. I hope the families take every institution possible, especially the cops, to the cleaners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maverick sheep Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Everton fans singing justice for the 96...and some are saying they were attacked by police soon afterwards... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrant Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 Everton fans singing justice for the 96...and some are saying they were attacked by police soon afterwards... Where did you hear this, Mav? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maverick sheep Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 Where did you hear this, Mav? Irvine Welsh was talking about it on twatter but seems like it was just hysterical everton fans talking shite. they were singing the songs all night but vids on youtube show police just standing there. bit unfair, especially considering west yorkshire police are a different body than south yorkshire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc_don Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Justice served today: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36138337 Jury found match commander was responsible for manslaughter by gross negligence due to a breach of his duty of care. Wonder if the police will treat fans better on the back of this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edinburghdon Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Justice served today: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36138337 Jury found match commander was responsible for manslaughter by gross negligence due to a breach of his duty of care. Wonder if the police will treat fans better on the back of this... You already know the answer to that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_widdows Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 I see Sheffield Wednesday have also been found guilty yet I havent seen anything directed at the FA for continuing to select Hillsbrough despite problems in previous semi finals. Be interesting to see if the HSE hit them hard and/or of the families now proceed with private prosecutions against all convicted parties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_widdows Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/9548881/Hillsboroughs-Leppings-Lane-deathtrap-threatened-Manchester-United-fans-32-years-before-1989-tragedy.html Article is a few years old but if the FA escape from this unscathed there is something wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocket_scientist Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Duckenfield was new in the job but a bully who was despised from the off. I'm amazed that nobody blew the whistle on his lies and the systemic cover up at some point in the next two and a half decades. Cops would rather stick up for one of their own rather than let truth and justice prevail, even if they hated him. Pigs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocket_scientist Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Kelvin Mackenzie will always be known as a pig for the headline he put out in the Sun. Arrogant shit of a man and coincidentally a bully when in power. How human. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jute Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Duckenfield was new in the job but a bully who was despised from the off. I'm amazed that nobody blew the whistle on his lies and the systemic cover up at some point in the next two and a half decades. Cops would rather stick up for one of their own rather than let truth and justice prevail, even if they hated him. Pigs. South Yorkshire Police were the Tories storm troopers who had loyal served the Tories during the miners strikes and others so they were always going to be allowed to be protected by the establishment. Plus blaming fans played into Tory agenda at the time to vilify football fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocket_scientist Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 South Yorkshire Police were the Tories storm troopers who had loyal served the Tories during the miners strikes and others so they were always going to be allowed to be protected by the establishment. Plus blaming fans played into Tory agenda at the time to vilify football fans. Very relevant and very true. A systemic cover up from the police all the way up to Westminster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
️ Come on you Reds! 
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