Crazy American Politics

[Mason89]

4 minutes ago, OrlandoDon said:

We live in different cultures, miles apart, a little different to Airdrie. Go live in California and I’m keen to get your take. Just because we both speak English and you watch our movies, we’re not the same culture. You see me as extreme, back at you. But I don’t see it as wrong, just different. Diff cultures countries and beliefs. You sound similar to those in Cali in a way with your judgements, I don’t live that way. 
regarding the vax, do your reading, there tons of info out there now about the effects by many way more educated and qualified than me. My wife and I both gave up 6 figure jobs, sold our house and 99% possessions, and drove 2200 miles to Florida with no jobs. That sounds crazy! But we did a ton of research, spoke to doctors, and did what we felt was best for our family. Make an educated decision and go for it, but you don’t get to take it back later. I see it like Russian roulette, if you don’t have to play, why play.

You weren’t playing Russian roulette, you shouldn’t have done your own research and you made what appears to be a fairly big upheaval for absolutely fuck all. 
 

I can see why you have to convince yourself you were right though. 
 

It sounds like to me you’ve never been to Airdrie 

[OrlandoDon]

2 minutes ago, Mason89 said:

You weren’t playing Russian roulette, you shouldn’t have done your own research and you made what appears to be a fairly big upheaval for absolutely fuck all. 
 

I can see why you have to convince yourself you were right though. 
 

It sounds like to me you’ve never been to Airdrie 

Alternatively, we were sure after significant research that it was worth the upheaval for our kids sake and health.

many do things because they are told. You can tell I’m not that guy. I’ll ask questions, especially in this case when it’s the government telling you it good for you, while offering free pizza and movie tickets.

[RicoS321]

11 minutes ago, OrlandoDon said:

while offering free pizza and movie tickets

You turned down what? Not vaccinating your kids is one thing, but only an idiot would turn the chance to a free pizza and film. 

[InversneckieDob]

The world really is fucked.

[Mason89]

6 minutes ago, OrlandoDon said:

Alternatively, we were sure after significant research that it was worth the upheaval for our kids sake and health.

many do things because they are told. You can tell I’m not that guy. I’ll ask questions, especially in this case when it’s the government telling you it good for you, while offering free pizza and movie tickets.

You were sure but you reached the wrong conclusions. Your previous post on how dangerous the vaccine is shows how wrong you were in gigantic neon lights. I’m glad it’s worked out well for you though. 
 

Youve moved to a state with a measles outbreak btw 

[OrlandoDon]

7 minutes ago, Mason89 said:

You were sure but you reached the wrong conclusions. Your previous post on how dangerous the vaccine is shows how wrong you were in gigantic neon lights. I’m glad it’s worked out well for you though. 
 

Youve moved to a state with a measles outbreak btw 

To each their own!
And fwiw, I’m from lanark, been to airdrie a bunch. 

You’ve got me really curious now, you said I’m way out there and dangerous. I’m stunned by that, always seen myself as kinda middle of the road and boring. Give me one thing you think is extreme and dangerous, maybe you can help me learn? Or is it just that I don’t agree with you?

you can’t go with Covid vaccines though, there’s millions out there, tons of data to back up what I’m saying. I’m not on an island there.

[Don Julio]

Rico speaks a lot of sense on the Covid vaccine IMHO. There was no strong reason to vaccinate children. One of mine wanted it, the other didn’t. Main side effect was it messed up our holiday plans for a while!!

In terms of the impact on children more widely of the lockdown and home schooling, I fear we’re now living with the consequences.

Adults avoiding the vaccine is a whole other thing in my view.

And we do know, reasonably accurately, how many people died due to the excess death numbers in the relevant years. This is the joy of hard data. 

[RicoS321]

17 minutes ago, Don Julio said:

Rico speaks a lot of sense on the Covid vaccine IMHO. There was no strong reason to vaccinate children. One of mine wanted it, the other didn’t. Main side effect was it messed up our holiday plans for a while!!

In terms of the impact on children more widely of the lockdown and home schooling, I fear we’re now living with the consequences.

Adults avoiding the vaccine is a whole other thing in my view.

And we do know, reasonably accurately, how many people died due to the excess death numbers in the relevant years. This is the joy of hard data. 

I spoke a lot of sense while arguing over the incorrect point though! I think you're right about the lockdown.

In terms of adults, my view is that it shouldn't have been as coercive as it was presented in the UK (Scotland, specifically in my case), and it would have been extremely damaging if it had been as authoritarian as @OrlandoDon experienced. I wouldn't present a case against vaccine efficacy, I'm merely critical of its enforcement. That, in my opinion, caused serious ongoing trust issues. There was never any possibility of containing the virus in the UK or US and the vaccination approach should have reflected that. It should have been approached in a similar vein to the flu shot, with a much greater emphasis on hygiene and staying away from others when symptomatic, with significant new measures brought in to force employers' hand on compliance, both then and now. As a fit and healthy adult, the risk to me from COVID is low (I've had it a couple of times, and a mysterious COVID like virus before it had even arrived in the UK apparently), and the biggest risk factor I could have posed was going out or to work, with symptoms, not "not being vaccinated", which in itself is rather meaningless in a country of wildly circulating infections. I'm not seeking to blame governments with hindsight, I completely accept that decisions were made in good faith, and that there was perhaps a certain catharsis, or finality, to being able to point to the symbol of X% population vaccinated, we can open up for business! It certainly provided something of an endpoint. 

[Don Julio]

I think the missing bit of that argument is the capacity of the NHS to cope. I wasn’t in the rooms where the decisions were being taken, but I imagine NHS capacity will have been a major factor in the decisions reached. Allowing everyone to go their own way may well have resulted in more hospitalisations.

[RicoS321]

6 minutes ago, Don Julio said:

I think the missing bit of that argument is the capacity of the NHS to cope. I wasn’t in the rooms where the decisions were being taken, but I imagine NHS capacity will have been a major factor in the decisions reached. Allowing everyone to go their own way may well have resulted in more hospitalisations.

It's a good point. I don't believe that at that stage of the pandemic, the NHS capacity would have been an issue. Not any more of an issue than it has been in the subsequent years and post Brexit in general, where ambulances are regularly waiting hours. In other words, I don't think the primary factor would have been COVID. I say that because those at high risk, and above, say, sixty would likely have made exactly the same decision regardless. The numbers admitted not in those categories shouldn't have been enough to overwhelm anything, any more than it would now. We were still in lockdown when vaccines were on the go, which would have had a far greater impact on spread until those requiring most protection were done. Omicron followed shortly thereafter. I can't be the only one that was left wondering why on earth I was getting my third vaccine just to go to a Dons match, at a stage where it was very clear that it wasn't going to have anywhere near the required impact on spread.