Crazy American Politics

[Mason89]

Could you possibly be more specific about LAs woke leadership and agenda? Who was doing what exactly? the reason I ask, is that every time somebody uses the term 'woke', they never go on to explain what it is that's annoying them. Normally its basic human rights but by all means, set me right

[OrlandoDon]

22 minutes ago, Mason89 said:

Could you possibly be more specific about LAs woke leadership and agenda? Who was doing what exactly? the reason I ask, is that every time somebody uses the term 'woke', they never go on to explain what it is that's annoying them. Normally its basic human rights but by all means, set me right

Includes, but not exclusive to, Dei agenda, I was all in and attended my trainings, was good on paper but over time it went way too far, witnessed how divisive it became and the hostility created, almost like segregation, equality vs equity, equity hiring, optics hiring, quotas hiring versus ability hiring, soft stance on crime, stance on trans rights, particularly transition surgeries for minors, rights of parents and schools not being required to communicate with parents over their child regarding many things including gender/transition, homeless policies and rights, immigration rights, high taxes and funding of homeless, illegal immigrants and tax funding etc., the overuse of the term racist, throw in cancel culture and feelings prioritized over facts too…..

Obviously woke was initially racial and social injustice and there is/was so much I agree with, but then it went too far and also became injustice for all, maybe a victim mentality, plus including govt telling you what was right. 100% agree with you in that it should be basic human rights, but believe it has gone way past that, became very political, and obvious overreach. And there’s obviously debate on what human rights are, the illegal immigration situation here being a good and complex example.

I witnessed and experienced a lot in California. Obviously I carry the baggage of losing my job (and my life as I knew it) and my kids being kicked out of school for refusing the covid vaccine, I’d maybe even potentially add that to the woke agenda and overreach. if you look at the high and increasing cost of living in California, extremely high and increasing taxes, the crime, the possibility of a wealth tax, the people leaving California, it’s not sustainable. Go and visit San Francisco or Los Angeles and you’ll see for yourself, the woke agenda being a big factor in my opinion. I loved LA and lived there for 17 years, but like the many others who are leaving, businesses leaving California, it doesn’t work there any more and it is a state in decline.

just answering your question, not debating you. We don’t see eye to eye, I’m not here to try to convince you or anyone. Much like with rico, you asked me a question, I answered. I also think we are maybe 10 years ahead of you culturally, more or less depending on whether it’s city or rural, not saying better or advanced, just that what happens here makes it way to you over time.

[Bukta Bertie]

3 minutes ago, OrlandoDon said:

Includes, but not exclusive to, Dei agenda, I was all in and attended my trainings, was good on paper but over time it went way too far, witnessed how divisive it became and the hostility created, almost like segregation, equality vs equity, equity hiring, optics hiring, quotas hiring versus ability hiring, soft stance on crime, stance on trans rights, particularly transition surgeries for minors, rights of parents and schools not being required to communicate with parents over their child regarding many things including gender/transition, homeless policies and rights, immigration rights, high taxes and funding of homeless, illegal immigrants and tax funding etc., the overuse of the term racist, throw in cancel culture and feelings prioritized over facts too…..

Obviously woke was initially racial and social injustice and there is/was so much I agree with, but then it went too far and also became injustice for all, maybe a victim mentality, plus including govt telling you what was right. 100% agree with you in that it should be basic human rights, but believe it has gone way past that, became very political, and obvious overreach. And there’s obviously debate on what human rights are, the illegal immigration situation here being a good and complex example.

I witnessed and experienced a lot in California. Obviously I carry the baggage of losing my job (and my life as I knew it) and my kids being kicked out of school for refusing the covid vaccine, I’d maybe even potentially add that to the woke agenda and overreach. if you look at the high and increasing cost of living in California, extremely high and increasing taxes, the crime, the possibility of a wealth tax, the people leaving California, it’s not sustainable. Go and visit San Francisco or Los Angeles and you’ll see for yourself, the woke agenda being a big factor in my opinion. I loved LA and lived there for 17 years, but like the many others who are leaving, businesses leaving California, it doesn’t work there any more and it is a state in decline.

just answering your question, not debating you. We don’t see eye to eye, I’m not here to try to convince you or anyone. Much like with rico, you asked me a question, I answered. I also think we are maybe 10 years ahead of you culturally, more or less depending on whether it’s city or rural, not saying better or advanced, just that what happens here makes it way to you over time.

Best post I've read on here thus far. 'Drop the mike' quality.

Did you live in Leytonstone in the 80s by any chance. No stranger to a scrap and strumming a guitar?

[Mason89]

1 hour ago, OrlandoDon said:

Includes, but not exclusive to, Dei agenda, I was all in and attended my trainings, was good on paper but over time it went way too far, witnessed how divisive it became and the hostility created, almost like segregation, equality vs equity, equity hiring, optics hiring, quotas hiring versus ability hiring, soft stance on crime, stance on trans rights, particularly transition surgeries for minors, rights of parents and schools not being required to communicate with parents over their child regarding many things including gender/transition, homeless policies and rights, immigration rights, high taxes and funding of homeless, illegal immigrants and tax funding etc., the overuse of the term racist, throw in cancel culture and feelings prioritized over facts too…..

Obviously woke was initially racial and social injustice and there is/was so much I agree with, but then it went too far and also became injustice for all, maybe a victim mentality, plus including govt telling you what was right. 100% agree with you in that it should be basic human rights, but believe it has gone way past that, became very political, and obvious overreach. And there’s obviously debate on what human rights are, the illegal immigration situation here being a good and complex example.

I witnessed and experienced a lot in California. Obviously I carry the baggage of losing my job (and my life as I knew it) and my kids being kicked out of school for refusing the covid vaccine, I’d maybe even potentially add that to the woke agenda and overreach. if you look at the high and increasing cost of living in California, extremely high and increasing taxes, the crime, the possibility of a wealth tax, the people leaving California, it’s not sustainable. Go and visit San Francisco or Los Angeles and you’ll see for yourself, the woke agenda being a big factor in my opinion. I loved LA and lived there for 17 years, but like the many others who are leaving, businesses leaving California, it doesn’t work there any more and it is a state in decline.

just answering your question, not debating you. We don’t see eye to eye, I’m not here to try to convince you or anyone. Much like with rico, you asked me a question, I answered. I also think we are maybe 10 years ahead of you culturally, more or less depending on whether it’s city or rural, not saying better or advanced, just that what happens here makes it way to you over time.

Thanks for answering but theres some glaring contradictions there. DEIs are a problem but you’ll vote for a party that puts an alcoholic TV host in charge of the military? Vince McMahons wife in charge of education? A puppy killer running homeland security? How many people of colour are in his cabinet? How many out there do you think are better qualified for these positions? When people complain about DEI, basically what they’re saying is ‘whitey can’t catch a break in the job market’. It’s insane 

Trans rights are human rights but arguing against them isn’t political. It’s evolution you’re arguing against. There always have been and always will be trans people. You can choose to make their lives harder or choose to leave them alone. What i guarantee is that the overwhelming majority of people complaining about them are doing so because they’ve been spoon fed it (Trans for all ) rather than having a negative experience with one

Parents for the most part, shouldn’t be informed with what’s happening with their kids at school. There’s a reason why the kids are telling their teachers and not their parents. 
 

Trumpism won’t catch on here in the UK. The people trying it are already widely known as complete cunts. We won’t follow in the US in 10 years because in 10 years the boomers will have snuffed it. 

[Mason89]

Also, all anti vaxxers are a menace to society 

[Don Julio]

1 hour ago, OrlandoDon said:

homeless policies and rights … funding of homeless,

I try hard to be open minded, but you’ve lost me here. 

You’re not really saying you don’t want support for homeless people? I think nearly all of us take for granted our homes, but not much has to go wrong for that to be taken away from us.

Rawls and his “veil of ignorance “ is a good test for thinking about these things.

Me, I’m all for the welfare state and a safety net for those less fortunate. Europe has a lot to be proud of and thankful for.

[InversneckieDob]

8 minutes ago, Mason89 said:

Also, all anti vaxxers are a menace to society 

I'll be honest , that was my primary take away.

[OrlandoDon]

1 hour ago, Don Julio said:

I try hard to be open minded, but you’ve lost me here. 

You’re not really saying you don’t want support for homeless people? I think nearly all of us take for granted our homes, but not much has to go wrong for that to be taken away from us.

Rawls and his “veil of ignorance “ is a good test for thinking about these things.

Me, I’m all for the welfare state and a safety net for those less fortunate. Europe has a lot to be proud of and thankful for.

If you’ve lived in LA or San Francisco you’ll understand the homeless crisis, and the lack of support, and the misuse of ‘rights’ of homeless people.  I didn’t elaborate so you may well misunderstand my comment, the support given is wrong, the tax funding abused, and the problem mainly ignored because solutions are difficult. The homeless suffer, which is wrong.

 

 

[RicoS321]

1 hour ago, InversneckieDob said:

I'll be honest , that was my primary take away.

I don't think the term anti vaxxer is helpful in any way whatsoever. I think it's created a situation where more people have become "anti all vaccinations", where they previously wouldn't have been. The COVID vaccine is not the same as a measles or polio vaccine, neither in makeup or utility. Whether you were vaccinated or not (I was), preventing children going to school for not taking a COVID vaccination is both authoritarian and unscientific. Creating that regime around vaccination has, in my opinion, needlessly created mistrust (which has obviously been significantly amplified via social media). If I had been forced into getting my children vaccinated, at the time, I would have been in the same position as @OrlandoDon. Conveniently wrapping everyone in the same "anti vaccine" parcel is ignorant, I believe. 

[DonUnder]

16 minutes ago, RicoS321 said:

I don't think the term anti vaxxer is helpful in any way whatsoever. I think it's created a situation where more people have become "anti all vaccinations", where they previously wouldn't have been. The COVID vaccine is not the same as a measles or polio vaccine, neither in makeup or utility. Whether you were vaccinated or not (I was), preventing children going to school for not taking a COVID vaccination is both authoritarian and unscientific. Creating that regime around vaccination has, in my opinion, needlessly created mistrust (which has obviously been significantly amplified via social media). If I had been forced into getting my children vaccinated, at the time, I would have been in the same position as @OrlandoDon. Conveniently wrapping everyone in the same "anti vaccine" parcel is ignorant, I believe. 

What?!

 

7 million people (WHO figures) died from Covid WTF is 'unscientific' about that?

[Bukta Bertie]

2 minutes ago, DonUnder said:

What?!

 

7 million people (WHO figures) died from Covid WTF is 'unscientific' about that?

Did they really though or is that just an arbitrary number WHO (much discredited) plucked out of thin air and then repeated ad infinitum until it became accepted as fact.

A bit like the "six million". 

[OrlandoDon]

2 hours ago, Mason89 said:

Thanks for answering but theres some glaring contradictions there. DEIs are a problem but you’ll vote for a party that puts an alcoholic TV host in charge of the military? Vince McMahons wife in charge of education? A puppy killer running homeland security? How many people of colour are in his cabinet? How many out there do you think are better qualified for these positions? When people complain about DEI, basically what they’re saying is ‘whitey can’t catch a break in the job market’. It’s insane 

Trans rights are human rights but arguing against them isn’t political. It’s evolution you’re arguing against. There always have been and always will be trans people. You can choose to make their lives harder or choose to leave them alone. What i guarantee is that the overwhelming majority of people complaining about them are doing so because they’ve been spoon fed it (Trans for all ) rather than having a negative experience with one

Parents for the most part, shouldn’t be informed with what’s happening with their kids at school. There’s a reason why the kids are telling their teachers and not their parents. 
 

Trumpism won’t catch on here in the UK. The people trying it are already widely known as complete cunts. We won’t follow in the US in 10 years because in 10 years the boomers will have snuffed it. 

Like I said, I think we’re 10 years ahead, or maybe we’re just a different country! Your comment about DEI and white people not catching a break is nothing to do with it. Imagine the new manager being told he had to have 4 Scot’s, 3 people of color, 2 trans, 1 dwarf, and a cat who identified as a human in the starting 11 every week. That’s where my experience was going. I was the boss, the one who set the trainings, did the hiring etc.

theres common sense, human rights, respecting people for beliefs, but also going too far and being extreme. There’s respecting peoples beliefs but should I be forced to take on your beliefs, I can respect you without doing that. Going back again to your whitey comment, because I don’t fit in your bubble, I assume you are implying I’m the racist again. 

every parent needs to be in tune with what’s going on in schools. I worked in schools for over 25 years, seen a lot. In the past there were plenty of families who trusted the local catholic priest with their kids, and that went south. Not implying physical abuse, but we give teachers a ton of power over our kids, that’s a hell of a lot of trust. I’m going to assume you are not a parent.

do you live in the states? Ever been to the states? California? A lot of you guys make comments but we’re a very different country, said this many times. Like watching the dons live versus you tube clips and donstalk! Not unlike ebbe’s stats and mini skirt comment too!

 

[RicoS321]

26 minutes ago, DonUnder said:

What?!

 

7 million people (WHO figures) died from Covid WTF is 'unscientific' about that?

Read what I wrote, and the context in which it was written. Forcing (for all intents and purposes) vaccination of school children for COVID was not based on rigorous science. Hence why it was not required in the UK. Vaccination of children for measles, for example, is based on rigorous science. 

[Mason89]

17 minutes ago, OrlandoDon said:

Like I said, I think we’re 10 years ahead, or maybe we’re just a different country! Your comment about DEI and white people not catching a break is nothing to do with it. Imagine the new manager being told he had to have 4 Scot’s, 3 people of color, 2 trans, 1 dwarf, and a cat who identified as a human in the starting 11 every week. That’s where my experience was going. I was the boss, the one who set the trainings, did the hiring etc.

theres common sense, human rights, respecting people for beliefs, but also going too far and being extreme. There’s respecting peoples beliefs but should I be forced to take on your beliefs, I can respect you without doing that. Going back again to your whitey comment, because I don’t fit in your bubble, I assume you are implying I’m the racist again. 

every parent needs to be in tune with what’s going on in schools. I worked in schools for over 25 years, seen a lot. In the past there were plenty of families who trusted the local catholic priest with their kids, and that went south. Not implying physical abuse, but we give teachers a ton of power over our kids, that’s a hell of a lot of trust. I’m going to assume you are not a parent.

do you live in the states? Ever been to the states? California? A lot of you guys make comments but we’re a very different country, said this many times. Like watching the dons live versus you tube clips and donstalk! Not unlike ebbe’s stats and mini skirt comment too!

 

I’ve been to the states a few times, both for work and as a tourist. I won’t be going back any time soon. 
I think you’ve probably spent too long there. You sound perfectly rational trying to justify positions that are fucking off the scale mental. 
 

 

[OrlandoDon]

29 minutes ago, DonUnder said:

What?!

 

7 million people (WHO figures) died from Covid WTF is 'unscientific' about that?

We’ll never know. Over here we don’t know ‘true’ Covid death numbers, anyone who died who had or in the past had Covid was recorded as a Covid death. That included people with other illnesses, terminally ill, compromised immune systems etc. where COVID was ‘the icing on the cake.’

also, try to find a report/study that wasn’t funded or received a grant from big pharma. Even govt studies, follow the money and big pharma is there. 
there’s also studies/reports now saying that vaccine deaths now outnumber covid deaths. Not read those in any detail, but it’s an area that was highly corrupt and we’ll never know the truth or answers.

FWIW, I’m not anti vax. But once having kids, a 1 yr old during covid, I was forced into reading this stuff. I did read the vaccine schedule for kids over here versus great britain and it’s crazy how many more here we are required to give our kids. Why? Nothing to do with health.

[Mason89]

15 minutes ago, RicoS321 said:

Read what I wrote, and the context in which it was written. Forcing (for all intents and purposes) vaccination of school children for COVID was not based on rigorous science. Hence why it was not required in the UK. Vaccination of children for measles, for example, is based on rigorous science. 

If it wasn’t based on rigorous science, then the decisions being made by adults on behalf of their children weren’t either 

In which case, they were taking an outrageous gamble. Whack jobs saying this vaccine is unsafe vs global pandemic. 

[OrlandoDon]

8 minutes ago, Mason89 said:

I’ve been to the states a few times, both for work and as a tourist. I won’t be going back any time soon. 
I think you’ve probably spent too long there. You sound perfectly rational trying to justify positions that are fucking off the scale mental. 
 

 

Keep it civil. I don’t know you, don’t like or dislike you, but you’ve never lived here. And you don’t know me. For good or bad, we’re all products of our environment, again, good and bad. We have good chat here and can all learn a bit from each other, I’m open minded. Whether I think you are all nuts is just my opinion, means little! I also know on the crazy American thread I’m in a minority of one for the most part so expect disagreement, and that’s ok. But it’s not personal!

[RicoS321]

4 minutes ago, Mason89 said:

If it wasn’t based on rigorous science, then the decisions being made by adults on behalf of their children weren’t either 

In which case, they were taking an outrageous gamble. Whack jobs saying this vaccine is unsafe vs global pandemic. 

Really? @OrlandoDon is from Scotland. Children in Scotland weren't being vaccinated. Why on earth would he assume that his children were more susceptible than those based in Scotland who were being told (correctly, IMO) that vaccination was not compulsory, and that children were at very low risk from COVID? Do you have kids? Were they vaccinated for COVID? Mine weren't. Because I'm perfectly capable of reading the various studies and weighing up the risk. Certain countries Australia and NZ from memory) had zero COVID policies, where infections were kept to a minimum via travel policies etc. It would, perhaps, make sense in those countries to pursue a zero COVID stance, with associated mass vaccination (I don't believe so, but that's only with hindsight). That approach was not taken in the UK and US, so the levels of vaccination required would never, ever have created the same scenario. You can't do some hybrid approach to immunity, it's illogical. Californian vaccine policy, I suspect, would be more to do with nudge politics as biological science. 

[Mason89]

Weighing up the risk? On the one hand, you’ve got a global pandemic wiping out millions. On the other hand, you’ve got a safe and effective vaccine 

I have a kid but he didn’t make an appearance until after COVID. So far, hes had every vaccine available with more to come. He’s getting the full bhuna. 

[Mason89]

18 minutes ago, OrlandoDon said:

Keep it civil. I don’t know you, don’t like or dislike you, but you’ve never lived here. And you don’t know me. For good or bad, we’re all products of our environment, again, good and bad. We have good chat here and can all learn a bit from each other, I’m open minded. Whether I think you are all nuts is just my opinion, means little! I also know on the crazy American thread I’m in a minority of one for the most part so expect disagreement, and that’s ok. But it’s not personal!

It’s a fairly poor argument pulling the ‘you’ve never lived here’. I’ve never lived in Airdrie either but I know enough about the place to know that I never will. 
 

Im not attacking you personally but some of the points you are making are crackers. Demonstrably so. They would be crackers regardless of your postcode. It’s not a differing opinion or the basis for debate. The position you take on certain subjects are damaging  and contradictory 

Edited 6 minutes ago by Mason89