Scottish Independence

[Kowalski]

So, its been all over the news the last day or 2 and it looks like we're getting a referendum......in 2014.

 

How would you vote?

 

I'm undecided.  I'd like to know much more about what the SNP's plans are, including the long term financial benefits.

I'm also interested to know what would happen with things such as the Royal Family, the Military, Sterling/Euro, Foreign Embassies (e.g. have to fund an embassy in every country?) etc... and obviously the clincher which is what happens to the North Sea Oil money.

[mizer]

Aye; But I think it will be the devolution max option this time.

[Kowalski]

What's the latest thinking on what the currency would be for an independent Scotland?  Would they stick with Sterling which would be governed by another country (doesn't sound ideal) or plump for the Euro (which would be utter madness surely) or come up with our own currency?

[manc_don]

The currency issue is what would get me. The Scottish pound is already worth less abroad (anyone tried exchanging it?). Im not convinced salmond is the right guy for this, and judging by the polls, neither do most Scots, but will certainly be interesting to see how this pans out the next few years.

[Superstar Tradesman]

The Scottish note isn't even given the time of day south of the border so why worry about it being worthless abroad?  Once they introduce it to the world then it'll be 'officially' recognised.

 

I'd vote for independance in a heartbeat.

[manc_don]

The Scottish note isn't even given the time of day south of the border so why worry about it being worthless abroad?  Once they introduce it to the world then it'll be 'officially' recognised.

 

I'd vote for independance in a heartbeat.

 

All well and good but that's not what im getting at. It will not hold the same value as the pound sterling and cost the economy a fortune. Hopefully, as jager says this would be offset by a trade off. Just raising a concern.

[Penfold]

All well and good but that's not what im getting at. It will not hold the same value as the pound sterling and cost the economy a fortune. Hopefully, as jager says this would be offset by a trade off. Just raising a concern.

 

What is that comment based on?

[Harcus]

I want to know what share of the national debt we'll be taking on.

[Kowalski]

An embassy is just a rented office with a phone and an internet connection - what's the big deal?

 

Indeed but it was an example of the unknown costs of independence that have yet to be presented to us.

[manc_don]

What is that comment based on?

 

That not always the case when a new currency is started? All has to do with market confidence etc does it not? I'm not professing to know what i'm talking about, merely saying what i've seen Certainly with the Euro, it took time for it build value in the markets.

[Penfold]

I dont know what I'm talking about either which is why I wondered where that came from 

[mizer]

I want to know what share of the national debt we'll be taking on.

 

The comment I heard was our share, which should be 8% (by population) - so around £80,029,918,000,000.

[glasgow sheep]

I want to know what share of the national debt we'll be taking on.

 

Presumably the debt would be a proportion of the UK debt either equivalent to our population or to the proportion of "assets" an Independent Scotland would secede from the UK.

 

The issue is that the referendum won't really be on this.  The SNP can suggest what debt they would hope for but it will then come down to lengthy negotiations so could be anything. Similarly the Military, Overseas Territories, Oil, Embassies etc

 

So, its been all over the news the last day or 2 and it looks like we're getting a referendum......in 2014.

 

How would you vote?

 

I'm undecided.  I'd like to know much more about what the SNP's plans are, including the long term financial benefits.

I'm also interested to know what would happen with things such as the Royal Family, the Military, Sterling/Euro, Foreign Embassies (e.g. have to fund an embassy in every country?) etc... and obviously the clincher which is what happens to the North Sea Oil money.

 

Royal Family - SNP have said, just like Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Jamiaca etc we would retain the Monarchy.  I would hope who ever gets voted in as a Government after Independence would quickly have a referendum on ditching the leaching cunts and become a Republic, but that is not currently anyones policy

 

Military - Salmond seems to be tip toeing around this with all this devo-max bollocks.  My understanding is that Scotland would retain a small standing army that would still be quite closely linked with the English/Welsh/NI army but we would obviously decide if we sent our soldiers into illegal wars or not. Trident would either be given to  England/Wales/NI or allowed to stay in the short term for a big wad of cash

 

Sterling/Euro - SNP have stated we would keep Sterling in the short to medium term, can't see we would do anything else.  Ultimately it may be beneficial to be in the Euro or have our own currency like Norway but that decision could be a generation off given the current state of the euro. So Pound Sterling for the foreseeable.

 

Embassies - I think the Scottish Govt already have "missions" in a number of EU countries and the US. We wouldn't need an Embassies in every country, few countries do.

 

North Sea Oil - Would be a fight over this but is International Law not quite clear on which bit of water "should" belong to whom?  At the moment I believe a proportion of the North Sea is under Scots Law rather than English Law.  Presumably this corresponds to "Scottish Waters" so would be quite easy to work out.

 

 

 

I'd always sat on the fence but am increasingly of the opinion why not.  Financially I suspect some years as a Nation we'll be a bit better off, some years a bit worse off, but don't believe that we'll be a land of milk and honey but then equally the idea that Scotland uniquely in the World couldn't exist and would fall to pieces just by declaring Independence seems farcical.  For me it's probably more about self determination and the ability to make decisions most other countries can.  Also I am increasingly tired and resentful of living in a country that is seemingly run for the benefit of international financial institutions, while operating under the misapprehension that we have a divine right to tell the rest of the world what to do while sending our bloated armed forces around the world to enforce our will.  The biggest worry for the establishment will not be who gets the oil but whether England/Wales/NI could hold onto their UN veto and seat on the Security Council and their EU veto and benefits.  I couldn't give a fuck about that and would be more comfortable in a Scotland who operated within its level of influence and worked co-operatively with our European and Scandinavian neighbours rather than like a boorish anachronistic imperialistic monarchistic state

 

 

[Kowalski]

Sterling/Euro - SNP have stated we would keep Sterling in the short to medium term, can't see we would do anything else.  Ultimately it may be beneficial to be in the Euro or have our own currency like Norway but that decision could be a generation off given the current state of the euro. So Pound Sterling for the foreseeable.

 

But we'd be at the mercy of the Bank of England wouldn't we?  I just can't see how that would work.

[glasgow sheep]

But we'd be at the mercy of the Bank of England wouldn't we?  I just can't see how that would work.

 

As we are now.

We would have full control over all other financial leavers however which we don't at the moment.

I'd be interested to know what other countries eg Czech/Slovaks, Baltic States and Yugoslavian states did when they became independent.  I'd thinking establishing our own currency overnight wouldn't be the easiest thing to do but admit I know little on this.

[manc_don]

As we are now.

We would have full control over all other financial leavers however which we don't at the moment.

I'd be interested to know what other countries eg Czech/Slovaks, Baltic States and Yugoslavian states did when they became independent.  I'd thinking establishing our own currency overnight would be the easiest thing to do but admit I know little on this.

 

It costs a fortune. Basing my knowledge from when Holland joined the Euro, all the prices had to be changed and it cost businesses and more importantly people a lot of money. Same happened to Estonia last January and it pissed a lot of people off. Joining the Euro is not an option, it's only going to get worse imo. But I agree, if you're going to have independence, you have to go the whole hog and change the currency or the govt will be at the mercy of the Bank of England.

[mizer]

North Sea Oil - Would be a fight over this but is International Law not quite clear on which bit of water "should" belong to whom?  At the moment I believe a proportion of the North Sea is under Scots Law rather than English Law.  Presumably this corresponds to "Scottish Waters" so would be quite easy to work out.

 

Its a strange one. Back in 1999 Westminster moved 6000sq miles of sea from Scottish to English control. Instead of Scottish waters starting at Berwick and heading East it now heads North East to as North as Carnoustie then heads East.

 

https://www.og.decc.gov.uk/information/bb_updates/maps/infrast.pdf

 

Im sure Edinburghdon will be able to tell you more about the seabed and the oil fields within it.

[glasgow sheep]

It costs a fortune. Basing my knowledge from when Holland joined the Euro, all the prices had to be changed and it cost businesses and more importantly people a lot of money. Same happened to Estonia last January and it pissed a lot of people off. Joining the Euro is not an option, it's only going to get worse imo. But I agree, if you're going to have independence, you have to go the whole hog and change the currency or the govt will be at the mercy of the Bank of England.

 

Sorry that should have said "wouldn't be the easiest"

 

It may be advisable in time but with all the other changes I wouldn't be sure that it would be the best thing to do from day one.

[glasgow sheep]

Its a strange one. Back in 1999 Westminster moved 6000sq miles of sea from Scottish to English control. Instead of Scottish waters starting at Berwick and heading East it now heads North East to as North as Carnoustie then heads East.

 

https://www.og.decc.gov.uk/information/bb_updates/maps/infrast.pdf

 

Im sure Edinburghdon will be able to tell you more about the seabed and the oil fields within it.

 

Interesting, although it doesn't look like there has been a huge amount shifted into English waters but I suppose area doesn't necessarily correspond to Oil/Gas yeild directly.

[tlg1903]

I'm for it, have been my whole life.  Was listening to some english lassie on radio 5 bleating on about how it would screw the british  economy if scotland left and that it shouldn't be our decision. Regardless of what cameron days the tories would not be gutted to seethe back of us.  Without scottish labour voting there would not have been a labour gvmt since ww2

[glasgow sheep]

Without scottish labour voting there would not have been a labour gvmt since ww2

 

That's wrong, Labour have had a English majority in most elections they have won.

[Kowalski]

My understanding is that things like continuing with sterling and the UK armed forces can only be decided by the UK government.

[glasgow sheep]

My understanding is that things like continuing with sterling and the UK armed forces can only be decided by the UK government.

 

No idea.

It's not like we would be changing to Sterling from something else, we already have Sterling. Ecuador use the US dollar and have done for 10-20 years.  Did they have to get US permission for this?

 

As for armed forces presumably there would be a negotiation about how the forces would be split?  If not and England/Wales/NI (not UK as this refers to the Kingdoms of Scotland and England) kept them all I wouldn't be too fussed. We only need a fairly nominal Army anyway.  Regardless, just as there is still an Irish Regiment and Irishmen that are in the UK army I'm sure there would continue to be a Scottish Regiment.

[Tyrant]

I'm undecided too. I have/had the same questions as many others. The main one being what's going to happen to the Oil money?

 

I'm not overly fussed to be honest. But if someone could convince me that it would benefit me/us financially I'd vote for it.

[mizer]

I wil benefit you financially... and since I'm always right aboot athin - that's all the convincing you should need 

 

In the short term it will allow us to manage our debt and pay it off far more readily.