Deep thoughts for McGhee in New Firm derby clash

dons manager can cast envious glance at size of levein’s united squad

 

By Michael Gannon

 

Published: 23/10/2009

 

Aberdeen manager Mark McGhee would not swap his best team for Dundee United manager Craig Levein’s best, but McGhee can be forgiven for casting an envious glance at the depth of the Tannadice squad ahead of tomorrow’s New Firm derby at Pittodrie.

 

McGhee has been unable to make the wholesale changes his counterpart Levein has made at the Arabs in the past two season.

 

It was a similar tale last year when McGhee was with Motherwell, when the 53-year-old insisted the Taysiders had strengthened their squad rather than their team.

 

McGhee’s point was proven as Motherwell won two and drew one of three meetings with United last season, including a resounding 4-0 victory at Tannadice.

 

But the manager’s words were to prove prophetic.

 

Motherwell’s season collapsed when an injury crisis condemned the Steelmen to the bottom six after the split, while Levein’s large squad proved vital as United claimed fifth place.

 

McGhee can see parallels this season as he has a threadbare squad once more and he still believes the Arabs’ strength revolves around safety in numbers.

 

He said: “I put my foot in it with Dundee United at the start of last season.

 

“I was asked the question about them making a lot of signings when we had not.

 

“Eventually we were caught out because we had injuries to five key players and only picked up one point from seven games.

 

“It is possible Dundee United were able to stay a bit longer with the pace because they had a bigger squad.

 

“What I did say was I felt they had strengthened their squad but not their team. Therefore at that stage I would have still taken my best team ahead of their best team.

 

“We proved that by going to Tannadice and beating them 4-0.

 

“This season is similar in many ways.

 

“That is not something I hold against Craig. He is trying to work miracles and he has found one or two nuggets for nothing, or for very little money.

 

“I think he has some really good players and some who have improved, such as David Goodwillie.

 

“They have lost a few, but I do not know if the ones he has brought in have necessarily strengthened the team rather than maintained the level.

 

“That said, outside the Old Firm, they are as good as anyone else in the league on their day.

 

“We have got to expect them to be as good as they can be on Saturday and therefore we will have to be at our best.â€

 

McGhee will today decide whether to hand new signing Maurice Ross a debut against United.

 

The 28-year-old is in the squad after receiving international clearance yesterday and the manager has been impressed by the former Rangers defender’s fitness, despite him not playing a competitive match since the end of last season.

 

Ross came through 90 minutes in Tuesday’s bounce game against Dundee and is a contender for the right-back slot tomorrow.

 

Really could do with a win tomorrow just to maintain a close distance with HIVs. Hopefully the team can build on what were clear positives last weekend and get a couple of goals and 3 vital points.

Same - can't be bothered watching us just now, or the SPL in general.  Used to enjoy going for a few beers and watching the football, but it's getting difficult to justify the £100+ when the only enjoyment is the train journey!

 

I love going to Pittodrie. 

I love going to Pittodrie. 

 

Are you Darren Mackie?

Are you Darren Mackie?

 

No, I am merely a Darren Mackie enthusiast.

Aye - apologies, didnae mean "worse" - meant "just as shite as it's been" :naesurewhichsmileyisappropriatesowillgowithhowireallyfeel:

 

 

 

I canna even be bothered with the train these days - thinkin of driving next saturday - or else just going to the bar and watching sky sports, or going to adventure golf at codonas or b&q to buy some "stuff" 

 

No apologies necessary chief, I understand the sentiment all too well unfortunately.  It is poor fare, no getting away from it. I'm crossing my fingers and praying to the Gods that things work out for us in the next transfer window because that is going to be hugely important not just for this season but the following season too. 

 

As for your second point... I'd start cleaning your putter if I were you... 

I'm going to apologise. It was me who brought up Jimmy yesterday and as has been pointed out, it had no relevance to yesterdays result.

 

I just let my frustrations regarding all things AFC get the better of me last night. I'm totally with Jager reference the waste of money thing, but me being pissed off about the way our club's run shouldn't be mistaken for me being over critical of (a probably equally frustrated) Mark McGhee.

From watching the highlights, a few things came to my attention.

 

- Fyvie was unlucky with his effort, I'm sure he's put those kind of chances away often enough before. Hopefully he doesn't let it affect his confidence.

 

- Miller, looked promising early on though his effort from the Paton cross should have done better. He did everything right, I still don't know how he missed.

 

- Paton should be played through the middle and not on the wing. I don't think we're getting the best out of him there, and it would appear the commentator felt the same.

 

- Ross looked promising and it was encouraging to see him take on the defender and knock a decent cross in the box. Shame no-one was on the end of it but encouraging nonetheless. How was his defending?

 

Dundee united looked like the deserved the result and fair play to them, the weather cannot be used as an excuse for this defeat, as they coped and took their chances. We really need to address the midfield in Jan, can anyone shed any light on McDonald, did he actually play? We are far too lightweight in this department and I hope something will be done about it.

Apparently McDonald was ill, manc.

 

Ross's defending was ok but a couple of times he looked like a guy who hadn't played in a while - was struggling to get back to his man once he'd been beaten etc.

 

Agree about Paton by the way, think we have to play him through the middle and not out wide.

While I agree that we made a mistake in blowing the money 'adjusting' the JC situation, the mistake was surely made in giving him 3 years when the rot was already beginning to set in.

 

I don't agree that we could have waited another season or so. I think it is fair to say that the majority of fans felt to varying degrees that things were becoming difficult under JCs management. If we had let the this fester I think it would have been hugely damaging for the club and its relationship with the fans. You can be as pragmatic as you like but most football fans are fickle and knee jerk, its just the way the game works.

 

Ironically, this myopic viewpoint that saw JC hounded out the door is exactly the same myopia that has fans losing heart with McGhee after a dozen games. Its deeply frustarting to watch Aberdeen right now but I don't remember it being any other way for around 18 years. McGhee has been honest enough to assess the squad and the position we are in and say that he thinks it will take him at least a season to transform our performance. In most businesses this would be an acceptable plan but not in football.

 

I would agree that its pretty hard to keep up levels of interest while these transitional periods are going on but we just have to give the manager some time to make a difference. We also know that a few good wins and some good performances and that myopia will kick in again and we will all be salivating at the prospect of the next Saturday.

 

 

well said Ajja.

We also know that a few good wins and some good performances and that myopia will kick in again and we will all be salivating at the prospect of the next Saturday.

 

I hear ya. A stack of draws was enough to have me thinking "ooooooh, cannae wait to see the result against those manky Arabs this weekend." Now we've lost I feel like I just cannae be arsed following the results anymore.

 

A win next week, however, would alter that perspective again!

@Ajja - Excellent post Sir, however I believe that another problem stems from the fact that many fans believed we were stagnating under Calderwood and that Aberdeen needed another manager to take us forward.  Calderwood had solidified the team but appeared to hit a wall [peaking in the Euro run] and taking Aberdeen to the next level of cup finals and third place finishes, whilst playing football reminiscent to Arsenal's Carling Cup sides, was beyond him.

 

Many would have you believe that McGhee was the man to step in and do this but he appears to have taken Aberdeen back a level in his short spell thus far - chasing players he never had a hope of signing, playing formations not suited to the players at his disposal, they're not scoring goals, and the football's been uninspiring bar the young players that have cemented their place.

@Ajja - Excellent post Sir, however I believe that another problem stems from the fact that many fans believed we were stagnating under Calderwood and that Aberdeen needed another manager to take us forward.  Calderwood had solidified the team but appeared to hit a wall [peaking in the Euro run] and taking Aberdeen to the next level of cup finals and third place finishes, whilst playing football reminiscent to Arsenal's Carling Cup sides, was beyond him.

 

Many would have you believe that McGhee was the man to step in and do this but he appears to have taken Aberdeen back a level in his short spell thus far - chasing players he never had a hope of signing, playing formations not suited to the players at his disposal, they're not scoring goals, and the football's been uninspiring bar the young players that have cemented their place.

 

I guess that depends on whether you view McGhee's short period in charge as a step backwards. I personally don't, although I recognise that the quality of football has not improved yet.

 

If you are trying to make significant change to a squad that is leaking yet more of its experienced players (Severin, Smith etc) and has become stagnant (as you correctly point out), carrying a number of players who are simply not up to the job then you have to be prepared to do some pretty major restructuring. I have said this many times but it just isn't going to happen overnight.

 

You say the football has 'been uninspiring bar the young players', lets not forget that those young players represent a fair chunk of the first team these days (between 25-35%) and most fans have been pretty excited by that element.

 

I agree, the formations are frustrating but you also have to applaud McGhee for wanting to play the style he believes in rather than accepting that due to the limitations of certain players he has to abandon his principals. Like you,  I'd prefer to see him focus on a short term plan to play a formation that works with the players he has but to build a squad that can play the way he wants them to. Again, this will take time.

 

As for chasing players he never had a hope of signing, how do we know what really goes on with these discussions? Fans need to relax about signings and transfer window gossip because we have no idea what is going on behind the scenes with agents and media specualtion. The one thing we do know is that there is fuckery a plenty and its not worth getting boiled up over.

@Ajja - My post was regarding the feelings of many fans and the frustrations they have at the moment.  I'm of the belief that Aberdeen may have to take one step backwards to make two forward although I do have reservations about McGhee.

 

I am a realist and do not expect McGhee to instantly take the club to cup wins and the like but I've no doubt in my mind that many fans see what's happened thus far as a sign that the solidity Aberdeen had gained under Calderwood as slowly disappearing.

 

The only inspiring aspect so far for me has been the introduction of the young players as that's a sign the club has a future based on a youth academy, we as fans just have to hope that the players don't burn out or leave early in their careers to chase the higher wage they could make in the lower leagues in England.

 

I also applaud McGhee for trying to play football his way although I think it smacks of ignorance and stupidity when he admits in the media that he doesn't have the players to play his formation yet he still insists on playing it.  That does nothing to get the fanbase on your side.

 

I don't think he was chasing players that he was never going to get (Hughes aside). And, as Ajja rightly says, we don't know what goes on behind the scenes, the fans very rarely do. This season is a transition season, but lets not go overboard with the arab result, we usually lose to them. Now whilst it is increasingly frustrating that neither he nor JC seem to be able to tackle Avril with Aberdeen, we do finish above them at the end of the season

 

This season, we have to be extra patient for the very reason that it is a transition season, hopefully in Jan we'll be able to get a couple of players in in Jan. But this Saturday, we really need to play 4-4-2, as I said, our midfield is incredibly lightweight at the moment and we need to nullify the HIVees attacking play and get them on the counter, which is where they are very vunerable. MM forget about 4-3-3 (4-5-1) until you get the players in that are able to play your chosen style.

 

I am a realist and do not expect McGhee to instantly take the club to cup wins and the like but I've no doubt in my mind that many fans see what's happened thus far as a sign that the solidity Aberdeen had gained under Calderwood as slowly disappearing.

 

 

You are correct, that is how many see it but I think they are wrong. Exactly how solid were things under Calderwood in his last season ? The ground has been further softened under us by a collapse in revenue since then and McGhee has made as decent a start in terms of points to Calderwoods previous seasons. Add to that an exciting couple of additions to the first team and I would argue things are already improved on how I felt last season. 

Being positive you could say that things were never going to get any better under Calderwood, yet in this period of heavy transition we don't look any worse and there is still potential for when McGhee builds his own squad.

 

On the other hand it could be argued that we've spunked the best part of a million quid on no noticable difference. You can realistically spin it either way.

 

The point I was making earlier on in the thread (nae very well) was that any conclusions are best left till the season's close at least. Fan's confidence will peak and trough between results, so to judge McGhee now seems a little premature.

I'm nae judging McGhee - I'm judging the morons that are trying to spin the bullshit line that everything is rosy because they told us McGhee was the new Messiah. The folk that fed us that bullshit have really shown themselves up to have nae fuckin clue about fitba.

 

Many people judged JC on his quotes in the press, I'm glad I didn't because if I was to start judging McGhee on some of the crap he spouts to the papers then I'd have lost faith in the transition period already.

 

But fuck it,

 

BRING ON THE HIBS!!!

 

That I agree with. It's just a little repetitive that each victory/defeat becomes a comdemnation of the previous/current management, rather than a result which affects this season.

 

It'd be quite nice to have a Messiah though.