jess

What a fucking awful article and "interview" (I ken they're only regurgitating the EE one). The headline doesn't reflect what was said in article and Yule is given free reign to spout unquestioning shite. That's what journalism is these days, fucking corporate press releases.

 

Absolute patronising pish from Yule. It is nothing to do with sentimentality and everything to do with lack of transparency and the simple fact that a lot of folk do not believe a chairman who has spent near on 20 years promoting a vision that most folk didn't agree with until very recently. We have a 12,000 figure (recently down from 12,500) with absolutely no supporting evidence and a transport plan that appears unsuitable at present. Genuine questions requiring genuine answers.

 

As for the 30 acres pish. That only stands up if we're going by the ludicrous notion that every stadium requires a training ground within 2 metres of it. Nobody is questioning the training facilities on their own. Nobody. It's disingenuous to spout that shite and he knows it. Nae his fault like, where the fuck are the supporting questions? Awful article.

Exactly.

The bit about the support from the shire and the vote is just false. Very worrying if he actually thinks that and if he knows it's shite then he's a cunt for lying through his teeth to the fans.

Why believe the crap about 12,000 and so on when they tell such big porkies?

It's a ridiculous idea building a stadium this far from the city centre.

Any park and ride, shuttle bus, monorail ideas are just "imagine if"

 

I accept I'm not the future of the AFC fan base but then again, I've never been likely to miss a game because it is raining or because I'm playing some computer game.

Millenials are conditioned to being able to do things straight away and having instant satisfaction, they've known nothing else.

If people can't be fucked with this park and ride stuff now we quite possibly could have crowds of 2 or 3 thousand in 2040 with an average age of 55.

Already people are finding streaming the game and cans at home better than being there. Add in this almighty bullshit, time and effort.

i've lost faith in your obvious self-confidence since your failure to count one roundabout between Hazelhead and Kingsford correctly.

There's Hazlehead roundabout then one for those coming off Lang Stracht then the one for Kingswells?

So because you can't see where the buses are coming from it's impossible is it?

 

I fail to see what point you're making about clubs with 40,000 season ticket holders, I really don't think there's anything excessive about the training facilities planned and really struggle to understand why you think they're so excessive .  It all seems reasonable for a club or our size and has the added benefit of being able to use the facilities for the community and AFCCT, which can't be a bad thing.

 

And I suspect there will be more than a few take advantage of the bars near the stadium, folk will do whatever's most conveniently, a fair number of that could well find heading out early easiest. Not denying buses run from pubs will be anything but in the 100's, it's an alternative to the situation you've laid out and one that's been mentioned already as realistic.

 

I wondered when it would come to Milne too, there's more people behind this than Milne, the same people that have lead to the club being better run than it has been for years. There's no denying the plans need improvement, which many people have already pointed out to you, that's not to say suitable improvement isn't possible.

 

You also seem determined to not take in the many valid points raised as to why the situation isn't nearly as bad as you're making out, which is puzzling...

They've taken into account all the available buses in the city with most of First's seemingly being at the park and rides.

Maintaining basically 4 pitches and 2 synthetic pitches and the pavilion that size will surely cost a fortune or am I wrong?

It's always been Milne proposing these. Sporting legacy the north east etc etc. Always the same community campus training academy.

I acknowledge the upside which is it's easier to drive to from the shire. There's no future in that. The core walking and pub going support is gone. 500 from the Westhill area is not a base for a club this size.

So you really can't see why a business who operate 20% of all bus routes in the country and clearly know how to run effective bus routes  wouldn't be interested in taking advantage of increased demand and put on new routes? Or that the club will do as they've said and organise shuttles from park and rides over the city? You really can't see why either would be thought of as a good idea?

There are 24 bus routes to the city centre yet only about 2000 fans use them. I really can't see where the buses are coming from for this to Kingsford for 6000 for one offs. The shuttle bus is from the city centre to the ground.

McInnes and the club in general have spoken about the lack of proper fit for purpose dedicated facilities for years. It's really naive to think it's just a pitch and a pavilion... they're in use sometimes twice a day, most modern facilities include catering, or office space, gym space etc. Why should the club half arse the plans and leave themselves short of facilities they really need when there's the opportunity to get something that ticks all boxes?

Because clubs with 40,000 season ticket holders find it expensive.

There's no reason why the likes of cove cults, bucksburn etc has to be any harder to get to kingsford IF THE RIGHT LINKS ARE PUT IN PLACE. You can base it on current links to make things look worse than they are but that's assuming there will be no improvement in the public transport links despite there clearly being the demand if the stadium goes ahead.

I'm basing it on what the club have submitted for a £50 million development and change of base. I'm not just going to hope!

Of course lots of people go out in town before the game just now, there's no reason that has to stop, it just means it'll change a bit. But don't you think bars in westhills & kingswells will be used by some as an alternative? Or that the traditional pubs running supports buses as mentioned previously will help things? I get it some people the change, it doesn't mean change is always as awful as you're making out.

Aye a few, not over 6000. And the bar bus contribution would be in the low hundreds.

Maybe, just maybe the site is 4 times as big as that's what is needed to include the required training facilities and car parking? Perhaps when it comes to what training facilities are actually needed the club are best place to decide what is excessive and what isn't, don't you think? The size of the site also allows the club to provide a fan zone which will increase the match day experience, something which has been needed at pittodrie for years.

Milne's brain has been stuck on an out of town joint stadium and humongous training facilities since the 90s which has caused us to have no training facilities and a neglected stadium in 2017. I don't think he's best placed for anything.

I would rather the club had one base which the players could travel to and not then have to be bussed about (Less they have to move about the less likely they are to be injured in coach accidents), which they are trying to do but for some reason you seem to be against this even though the masterplan has '5 pitches and a pavilion'

 

The average occupancy of a car is a lovely stat to throw about and what it shows is the over reliance modern day society has placed on them.

 

The guidelines for building design, master-planning etc have lots of different ratios but if they scrapped them in favour of statistics taken based on a certain number of people, in a certain environment at a certain time then what you would end up with is the following

 

-Small 1 (max 2) bedroom houses with 2 parking spaces as the Average household in Scotland is 2 people but they

  both own cars.

- Large Warehouses with expansive delivery bays as online shopping is seemingly on the verge of replacing the traditional high street or retail park

- Sports facilities being shut down as sports participation is declining.

Basically a Conservative party wet dream.

 

A wise man once said 'statistics are like mini-skirts, they look great but hide what is truley important'

 

Is your stance in this debate to be 'everything is fine, it has been for decades, so improvement/ change is not required'?

My point was how long they've not done it. Also that the Kingsford site is 4 times the Links. I think the training plans are very excessive and we can't afford the build or upkeep.

My stance is this is not an improvement in many areas and not the right improvement.

[1] Yes they are, that's how the analysis works, if you're in the city, then it's counted as being in the city.  Which 2, for accuracies sake, are harder then?

 

[2] Who? Who is going to the football, but has to be in the city first? I've never met one of these 'AFC fans'?

 

[3] Nearly 33% of our crowd dropping off cos of what? Half our fans come from Aberdeen, ALL of Aberdeen, some of those are in wealking distance of the stadium, lets be generous to you considering the size of aberdeen, and say that means 25% walk. You're now saying that more than the walkers will not go to Kingsford when people will find it easier? Wise up.

 

[4]Well you're talking to one. In an office of four, one being a woman, my colleague (who lives in Westhill) is thinking he'll get a ST when the ground moves, and yet now only ever goes if he gets a corporate off a client. Yes that's hearsay and anecdotal, but hey, it's harder facts than what you're coming up with.

The edge of the city 55% goes out to Bridge of Don, Bucksburn, Cults and Cove. Harder would be Northfield and Garthdee.

If you've never met people who go out in the city before football then I don't even know. Over half do.

Dropping off because the transport options are very poor and very limited for 3 times as many people. Why don't you get a bus to games to Union Street? Why do you think folk will do this to out there?

Just want to chuck in that the Standard parking requirement for stadia is Scotland (as adopted by ACC and numerous other councils) is 1 space per 15 seats + a transport assessment be it city centre, inner city, or the  outskirts

 

20000 seat stadium therefore is only obliged to provide 1,334 parking spaces. Current proposal provides 1,598 which is 1 space per 12.5 seats.

5 people per car = 7,990 fans

 

If parking capacity using other nearby facilities saw that increased to 3000 that would be 1 space per 7.

up to 15,000 fans (more if people carriers are used)

The average is 1.7-1.8 which would be 5100-5400.

You didnt even read and think there did you?

 

Only a small percentage of the current half of our fanbase will be disadvantaged. We're starting from a point where 50% (all the tuechters) will be better off.

 

Then many of the other 50% will be better off travel wise or no difference, think Dyce, Bucksburn, Sheddocksley, Mastrick, Northfield, Hazelhead,  Culter, Cults, Milltimber, Bieldside, Garthdee, Cove.

 

So yes, those in central Aberdeen, Seaton, Linksfield, Tilly, Bridge of Don, yes those guys will be worse off, they've had it good forever, they have no devine right to be able to (almost) walk to every home game.

 

Let's assume all of the former groups still go - because why wouldnt they now when it's easier to get to?

 

Let's also assume that most of the latter group still go - because they're dons fans, but there will be a drop off.

 

Now where does the gain come - from all over the hinterland,because like me, those who do actually have a decent commute to make to get to "Pittodrie" will suddenly have a much reduced travel, whereas those on the king st area (the "worst affected") will have the massive 6 mile journey to make that they previously didn't. The upside is massive, the downside is small.

 

Best location was Bellfield, but the Kingswells NIMBYs blew that up 15 years ago, don't let the Westhill W.A.N.K.S. do the same!!!

At least 4 of those areas which are large percentages don't count in the city half (and 2 are a lot harder). The people that want to be in the city before the match what about them?

3000 dropping off for whatever reason would be replaced by who? Are there Aberdeen fans all over Aberdeenshire desperate to go to Westhill instead of Aberdeen?

There are lots of things which are the 'case all over the world'

Lack of Education,

Lack of Clean Drinking water,

Lack of a safe place to live.

 

There are charities and aid groups working round the clock to try and resolve this but should they stop because they are fighting against arguably the norm for more than half the planet?

 

Actually implying the club should take a half-assed approach to providing facilities for their prized assets is one of the most depressing thing I've read on a Dons fans message board. It will be even more depressing if it actually came form someone who has a vested emotional interest in them IE a fan.

You'd rather they did what they've done and waited 20 years bussing them to random places and half pitches than have built football pitches and a pavilion. 

How about any sensible solution that is even slightly efficient? Like multiple trips with buses? They could even serve other routes during the match. They don't need to be sitting around doing nothing though!

 

Ok so £3.25 is the furthest return, who's to say football specials won't be priced similarly? You're falling into the trap of taking an unknown and assuming the worst case.

 

The whole point of getting training facilities is making sure they're fit for purpose? Are you really suggesting they should just scrape together something that's not fit for purpose and no better than the shocking facilities they currently have?! 

If the updated transport information confirms anything other than the current bus and price arrangements as now I'll accept I'm being blind to a business case here. 

The point of training facilities is they don't have guaranteed pitches to use at the moment. I've not seen McInnes or anyone complain about anything else.

Just having a pitch and pavilion is the case all over the world.

It's a nonsensical argument ED, it's assuming that for every fan being possibly inconvenienced, there is no-one who will be advantaged. It's been the argument behind nearly every anti-mover since this possibility first emerged, and has been adopted by the W.A.N.K.S latterly.

 

What it surely willfully ignores, is those who are now convenienced by this change, I'm one such recipient, as a country loon, I've never held a ST, I don't make every game, and one of the reasons is the horrible location of Pittodrie, some days you just don't want to go through toon and suffer the search for a parking spot, and then the fight to get back across King Street to get home again afterwards (especially midweek games as I'm an early riser). Move to Kingsford and I will proudly buy my first ever season ticket, hell, I'll be first in the bloody queue!

 

Large areas of Aberdeen will find getting to Kingsford much easier than getting to Pittodrie, and everyone in the country will, everyone, bar none, from the south you take the AWPR and never hit the city, from the north you hit the AWPR at Balmedie and never hit the city, from the A96 you get onto the AWPR at Craibstone and never have to suffer the slog along Auchmill Rd & Great Northern Rd, and from Deeside/Donside, you get to Westhill, and stop, the end, sheer bliss.

 

So yes, personally I'm a huge beneficiary, but trust me, if I thought it would hurt the club, I'd be fully against this, because the last thing we need after 19 years of decline, is for the subsequent three years of resurgence to go backwards due to the building of a white elephant. But I don't believe it will be, I honestly believe that building somewhere that has great transport access will address Aberdeen's long standing sore - why cant we get the crowds that our success at various stages merits? - and that's because Pittodrie has always been in the wrong place.

Surely you're more concerned about it being harder for a huge percentage of current crowds and season ticket holders or what's the thinking there? For you not being in the city is a good thing and for over half it's part of the day.

Why would the buses have to stop for hours then send them back? That would be mad... do know for sure they haven't even discussed additional routes? Again that would seem to go against any kind of logic when it has the potential to make the bus companies a significant amount of money? Just surprises me that would be the case!

 

Appreciate £6 mounts up but surely a significant number of people from within the city already spend that money on buses seeing as it's not possible to walk from everywhere in Aberdeen to pittodrie?

 

Of course there's significant planning issues for adequate training facilities, it would have to be more than a couple of pitches...it's professional facilities we are talking about not an open patch of grass for a kick about. That's before factoring in changing, catering and other fitness/physio facilities.

 

Fair enough if the 3 per car will be enforced for the clubs parking, the park and ride and any businesses car parks, I geneuinely cant see that being enforceable or even reasonable. There's space to park along the roads at the business parks too which will help.

What is the other option for the buses? They're not sending them on routes they're not required on and in the time available.

Furthest stagecoach return in the city is £3.25.

The places they've used for years are barely professional either and what I'm basing on what I can't believe we can't have done in years out in the sticks. What are we looking at for this?

There's nothing to say union street has to be a meeting point for everyone though is there? Should there be additional routes put on to meet demand there's nothing stopping people travelling directly from dyce etc. Fair enough a lot of buses are required but we're lucky to have a rather large and successful bus company in the city, do you really think additional buses are a show stopper? The key is securing additional routes and additional buses during peak times.

 

I'll agree taking the bus isn't a great experience. But neither is walking in the pissing rain... it's hardly a terrible journey. I remember when I lived in Edinburgh, getting a bus across town to go to Easter road etc to see aberdeen took a bit of time and was often really busy for a large part of the journey but it wasn't too bad, with the right planning in place it's an inconvenience rather than a nightmare. It's hardly a significant cost either...

 

Do you know they've not proposed this? Do you genuinely believe the bus companies won't put on additional buses or routes if there's demand?

 

I'm also sure I've read various bars in town have looked at running buses directly from bars, sure the pittodrie bar etc were mentioned. All would reduce reliance on cars, normal bus routes etc.

Taken up with other things such as?

 

The club have already made a big point about the corporate facilities being greatly enhanced in both design and quantity, I don't see anything in the plans to suggest otherwise, apologies if I've missed something though...

So already it's obvious buying/relocating the driving range is going to be expensive even before the other factors previously mentioned are taken into account? No idea about maintaining the site at kingsford but it stands to reason that maintaining 1 site is cheaper than 2.

 

I'd imagine it's because there's a planning process to follow, it'd be madness to buy land somewhere without knowing we can get planning. Suspect the club are realistic enough to realise having a separate site will increase costs massively.

 

 

Ah ok, I'd genuinely missed that when I read the application documents, does it account for the smaller amount of on dteeet marking in the industrial estates? Or the use of the park and ride and shuttles from there? Because both would reduce reliance on the clubs parking. Same goes for the potential for agreements with other companies or prime 4 car parks in westhill? Small gains but it'll all improve things.

 

viously mentioned are taken into account?

Good point, I'll give you that one... I'd question 35 mins based on the last time I took the bus to westhill but I guess it can be close to that to westhill, don't agree about it taking that long to reach the dual carriageway. . It'd be less for football specials though for what it's worth.

I don't believe they did or could offer extra bus routes because I don't think it's feasible. Sending new buses to a location away from everything, stopping for hours and sending them back isn't what public ones can do and the TA says those limited plans already account for all public buses available.

By significant cost I mean it's about £6. Over a season is huge.

Football pitches - are there really any planning concerns for just pitches? What stops someone owning land growing grass in the shape of a pitch with white paint on it? I don't know

The parking has all been counted as 3 to a car next to the ground, in the park and ride and business parks which has obviously blown it apart, with only about 3000 total spaces.

but it's another thing the club facing up to the fact that their planning and transport assessment is a big steaming pile of horse crap and have gone into a sulk about it.

Well, I agree there. 

It wouldn't stop you going to a bar before the game though would it? The people in the city centre can still go to the same bars as before the only difference is having to take a bus rather than walk to the game, admittedly it'd mean leaving earlier but it certainly doesnt stop it completely. It also doesn't stop people using the existing bars in Westhill/Kingswells nor the planned fan bar. That's before the possibility of additional bars opening in the area once the demand is there (bit of an assumption but not a huge stretch of the imagination.

The other transport assessment points this out because if people do this and union street is still a meeting point the number of buses required from the city centre is beyond belief. It would also be adding a significant extra cost and is not a good experience.

You're also basing the number of buses required on current routes, do you really think that additional routes from elsewhere in the city wont be put on once there's a demand for it? The bus companies arent stupid, if there's a demand for routes and it'll make them money then they'll soon provide additional routes. It's naive to think otherwise. Again I totally get it'll be a change to current habits, one which may not be as convenient but i really don't think its the disaster some are making out. It'll also be more convenient for just as many from other areas.

I don't think so or the bus companies would have proposed it when the club discussed it with them. It appears to be unsustainable in terms of number of buses required to go to an out of town location.

Maybe so, but there's more to the hospitality than just the boxes, I'm fairly certain when you compare the boxes/lounges at pittodrie to the boxes/lounges at kingsford you'll see there's a big increase and kingsford has been designed in a way to improve efficiency with regards to hospitality catering etc.

There's a 50 club lounge, match sponsor's lounge and 4 hospitality suites. There's probably just more floor space than the RDS but so much of it is taken up with other things.

Do you have any info on the cost of that land? Or the difference taking into account the additional site preparation required as mentioned by Tom_widdows? Or buying/relocating the driving range? Is the site at kings links also big enough for training facilities too? If not you'll be looking at additional cost of buying more land, site prep etc. Your £4 million estimate soon increases massively. I do agree it'd be a preferable site if it was a. possible and b. cost effective though.

No it's blanked out of the business case. The golf centre's last available turnover is £1.5m and profit around £100,000. How much is the land at Kingsford and how much to maintain? Auchenhowie costs nearly £2m a year.

Why we haven't at least just bought land in the middle of nowhere for football pitches I don't know unless someone can explain.

I may have missed it but where has it been said that people need to have 3 in their car in order to drive to the site? Cant really see that being enforceable given the club wont control all parking options. Fair enough if it is going to be an enforced rule, I agree that'd be a ballache.

That's the number required for the parking spaces available firstly. And what ACC said would have to be enforced if they want to get away with using those numbers at the ground.

One final point, whats so different in taking a bus at capacity from union street to kingsford and taking a bus at capacity from king street to union street/further? Not a lot... The buses are frequently at capacity (or close to it) on route back to the city centre after games. all you're doing is adding a bit to the journey, which given half the journey will be dual carriageway rather than a gridlocked King Street will offset the increased distance somewhat I'd imagine.

One empties on the way. It takes about 35 minutes from union street to the dual carriageway.

But it's old farm land and it's out of town.  Kings Links will be quite pricey due to proximity to the city centre.

Aye but will 4 times as much in such a supposedly great location cost the same? I don't know I'm asking.

Which is one of the big points that gets missed. Depending on who I'm gan to the fitba with, they're either North of the City, West End of the city, the city centre or BOD (fariver the fuck that is). It's easy to converge on the city centre and pick up on the way if required.

I don't understand this either from a bus or other modes perspective.

Just now I usually get a bus in and meet people who have walked and bussed from all over at whatever venue of choice and then work our way down to the game via various bars, shops and bookies.

Can't even work out what we're meant to do for Kingsford or what the day would be.

Because if you park at kingswells, you're still over 4 miles from the city centre, 20 minutes on the bus, and then of course 20 minute walk to Pittodrie. On weekdays, is the bus taking you where you even want to go?

 

Conversely, people going the other way will be parked 20 minutes walk away, or they take the P&E bus that final mile, which is considerably different.

The X40 goes from the park and ride to Merkland Road and has 21 cars parked at it during a game.

and this is a negative how? 

It was replying to the cost of buying the land.

The Purpose of a Park & Ride system as I understand it is to allow people travelling from further afield to leave their car close to a city and travel the last few miles by bus/ train etc. It is not designed for people living next door to them to use as a car-park.

Anyone that lives in or near those areas and drives to Pittodrie, why aren't they taking the bus or driving to a park and ride and taking the bus? For the same reason, nobody is going to do the equivalent to westhill and it's pie in the sky. Relying on 6000 to 10000 doing that is madness and not a small change to get used to.

Regarding attitudes towards bus travel, I do it all the time and hate it because it's uncomfortable. Someone sitting next to you on a Stagecoach is very uncomfortable. Buses at full capacity going from Union Street up Queen's Road (...) is horrendous.

It'll be a change to the usual habits for some, that's not to say people won't adapt. At the end of the day getting on a bus for what's not exactly a huge journey isn't too bad, it's 6 miles not 60.

 

I think they've made it clear that significantly increased corporate facilities, plus enhanced facilities in the fan zone will provide the increased revenue.  I don't think anyone expects this to be done without a mortgage of some sort though.

 

I guess they've done that as they're planning to use the kingswells park and ride as a hub for shuttle buses. There's still years to make sure there are enough buses too. I also don't think there's any logic in basing concerns on what bus routes there are currently, of course there's not going to be services from all over the city just now if there's no not the demand.

 

I sort of get what you mean about basing the buses on 100% capacity but on the other hand, why would you assume you'll be running partly empty buses. Guess it's a tough one to plan. Suspect early engagement with the various bus companies is key, they'll know better than most on running buses given the size and successfulness of the companies. I seriously doubt AFC would plan to move if it was obviously doomed to fail, it's in their interests to make this work, with a bit of work I'm sure it can.

 

There's more dedicated parking than we currently have, there's also nothing to say the club can't put further deals in place for the use of more car parks.

 

The club have had years to ensure they're prepared for the move, it could be said they should be more prepared and that's not entirely unfair but with a bit of work the plans can and (if it's approved) probably will work, it'll take some getting used to but change isn't always a bad thing. I'd argue it'll make it easier to get there for as many as it makes it harder for too, which seems to be being ingnored.

 

I'd be amazed if buying a pretty successful business (or relocating it), buying significant areas of land in the city and rerouting a road would only add £4 million onto the cost, I'd be keen to see where that number came from.

 

I'd also be keen to get your thoughts on how you'd expect the transport assessment to turn out as anything but significantly worse than the kingsford one given the transport links? If the TA for kingsford is being ripped apart despite heavy use of park and rides plus 2 dual carriageways to provide good access and egress I can only Imagine how bad it'd be without the quality of roads or amount of parking. Because we are moving it'd have to be a new TA too so saying it won't be any worse than before won't cut it.

 

It's also naive to think kings links would lead to permanent increases to attendance given nothing seems to help increase attendances in the current location, same goes for assuming theee will definitely be a decrease at kingsford given it'll make it easier for a large number of our support (admittedly offset with fans in the city centre having a slightly harder journey)

 

Also, am I wrong in remembering that the original study into kings links mentioned a lot more site preparation is required due to the make up of the soil?

The last survey put over half going to bars or restaurants before a game and I've not seen how this is accounted for or replaced at Kingsford. And we're talking 4000 more taking a bus with walkers turning to bus, bus to mostly two buses and driving to a bus. It's all unattractive stuff. The ghost town park and rides show that anyone with a car isn't going to do this or why aren't those in westhill and kingswells etc doing this now when the option is there. Anyone on a bus only would want it from basically their street to the ground as there is now, which is very underused as it is.

As far as I can see it would make it way harder for a lot more people except those driving to and parking in the small number of spaces next to the ground.

I was surprised there's only 20 ten people boxes in the plans when the RDS and main have a lot more and all the lounge and seat options. I was really expecting them to go most of the way around or two levels with skyboxes and the like that other stadiums of the same cost have and what I assumed Milne was most impressed by at Groningen.

The land at kingsford is 4 times the size of the golf centre and cricket pitch.

Regarding the TA there's 12 bus services dispersing in all directions on King Street and Golf Road according to the Pittodrie houses application. There are walking links and then buses to every corner of the world from union street which is half the distance of to Kingswells park and ride. Got the train as well. It passes every part of sustainability. The AWPR is also supposed to take heaps of traffic out of the city centre.

And I think if there was a proper stadium at Pittodrie there would be much higher attendances.

Over driving range and cricket pitch is the identified spot. Access road to beach rerouted and us compensating for or relocating the driving range.

Might cost £4 million more but what's that in the scheme of the next 100 years, highly preferred fans choice and home and no risk to attendances - almost certainly increase and permanently - plus the transport costs all over the place associated with Kingsford.

Which many do of course

 

Yes, from Westhill, Kingswells, maybe even Skene if yer feeling frisky.  Can you walk to Pittodrie, aye if you live close to it. See the similarities?

 

I imagine when football specials are put in, then pretty much aye.

 

Buses, both of the supporters kind, and First Bus/Stagecoach + specials. So, aye. Like now.

 

 

 

Apparently 45% of fans come from the shire, plus away fans. So you're basically saying all city based fans take the bus with that figure. Utter nonsense.

 

 

Tons of parking, more closer by than there is at the beach.

 

I'm sure the golfers & golf clubs are delighted that you're happy for the links to be ploughed up. Very considerate of you.

Yes many do but nearly just as many don't and changing habits so drastically from a day out in the city, pub and walking to Pittodrie is such a huge gamble on habits and affinity it would need to be a much better and at least as easy option. By much better I mean something special and a wide consensus online is people don't like it especially compared to the Gent and Euro stadions that were hinted at. I've also not seen anything about how this would increase revenue or attendances, indeed the naming rights and sponsorship would just contribute minimally towards it being built and we'd be paying it back for decades I imagine.

Regarding walking distance that figure would drop substantially and is a guaranteed negative.

Football specials is what's being torn apart the most. For some reason the club has counted 3/5 of football specials being from Kingswells as not driving by car. (Are there enough buses?) The only other locations are direct from the city centre and Dyce.  The cost of making this as accessible as the city centre with private hire coaches in whatever shape would be relatively enormous to the club or fans who it would probably be passed on to. Stagecoach would only be able to increase by 10 buses an hour across the X17 and X18 and First Bus would be doing the shuttles. This would hammer crowds.

Don't think you've got the percentage logic right. The modal split puts number of fans on buses at 42.5% and just under 6000. They've planned for buses at 100% capacity.

As for tons of parking I don't know where you're thinking of because they've already accounted for all that they can use with Kingswells and Arnhall and that's at an extremely unrealistic average of 3 people per car when it could be as low as 1.5.

And the stadium wouldn't be on the golf course!

I don't think I'm overreacting. The club isn't prepared for a gamble this size and I can see no evidence to back it up and hoping everything falls into place and will be alright. If 12,000 are turning up for Hearts at home when we're as good as we've been in decades at Pittodrie what would we have got next to Westhill?

 

Whilst that might not be a big deal - certainly not in the short term - it is worth discussing. I'm not one for sentimentality, but I do understand identity, and Pittodrie has that. The location is very Ikea, very Stewart Milne Group - a meaningless nothing in the middle of nowhere, not part of anything. The journey to and from entirely soulless, no Castlegate, Marischal college, glass abomination or granite streets, shops and no beach, no sea. It's actually a perfect metaphor for the Scottish game; stripped of all meaning. It's line with 21st century building practices (expecially those of our chairman). It's designed for driving to and driving away from again, it's a commuter town like New Kintore, a Homebase/Asda Portlethen, an Altens industrial estate. A meaningless, soulless, shitehole. It perfectly encapsulates our Zombie society. Okay kids, as a treat, after the game we can go to Costco and buy a year's supply of cold meat. We'll be home by 17:45, and with these superb driving arrangements we'll barely miss a minute of sitting down in front of the TV and ignoring one another.

Great post and exactly what I can see and can't for the life of me understand Aberdeen fans supporting unless they only drive to games and go home.

The idea that Kingsford is 'in Aberdeen' is amazing. Can you walk to it? No. Can you bus to it from all over? No. Are there any other options other than driving? No. Because it's not Aberdeen and would finish the club.

The Fairhurst transport assessment really is a joke. The NKS one that was lampooned for costing a fortune rips it to shreds and it will never be passed by the council. They demonstrate it's unworkable in every way.

6000 fans on fucking 100% capacity buses for an average game to a place that buses don't go. 

When folk get sick of being herded on shambolic sardine tin buses what they going to do? Drive if they can and want to to where there already is no parking?

They know Kingsford is mince that they can't work out. They even wrote this in the Loirston one

2.1.2 The objective to prioritise the opportunities for personal travel by mode in the order –

walking, cycling, public transport, car and other motorised vehicles is summarised

within the Transport Section of SPP which states:

• ‘Buildings and facilities should be accessible on foot and by cycle.

Improvements to active transport networks, such as paths and cycle routes, in

urban and rural areas will support more sustainable travel choices.’

• ‘New development areas should be served by public transport accessing a

range of potential destinations, or proposals should be put in place to provide

public transport’;

• ‘Reducing emissions from transport sources as a contribution to achieving

Scottish Government greenhouse gas emission targets requires a shift to more

sustainable modes or transport. For people this means a shift from car-based

travel to walking, cycling and public transport.’

2.1.3 The Transport section further identifies within paragraph 168 that ‘Planning

permission should not be granted for significant travel generating uses in locations

which would encourage reliance on the private car and where:

• direct links to walking and cycling networks are not available or cannot be

made available,

• access to public transport networks would involve walking more than 400

metres,

• it would have a detrimental effect on the capacity of the strategic road and/or

rail network, or,

• the transport assessment does not identify satisfactory mechanisms for

meeting sustainable transport requirements.’

Also noticed the approved Pittodrie houses application builds onto Pittodrie Street and right next to golf club etc with a redesigning of the road.

If you can fit around 500 seats per row allowing for stairways and guidelines in 3 stands does anyone actually believe we could only fit 12 rows in?

I'd rather a new build on Kings Links but a Pittodrie rebuild would do. Yes I know the emergency stuff. Yes it could be worked around and would cost the club less in the long run than a stadium not in Aberdeen for however many years.