jess

He thought Jack was shielding the attacker off. Would have been a very strange kick with his hands nearly touching the ground and no backlift.

The run out the wall is inexplicable. It would have just hit him.

 

I've seen some blame jack for both goals, I'm not sure I actually completely blame him.  I think these are both down to Lewis, especially the first one.

He could have just nudged the ball out for a corner, or hoofed it.

He then ran out of the wall for no apparent reason and turned his back like a wimp instead of blocking it.

Less than 3 would be miraculous.

I've personally had blind belief going into every game against them even at Parkhead.

Now we've catastrophically shat our pants against a sea of shite hun team based on their jerseys who got murdered at their own ground.

How can our team not get fucked here?

Rooney has lost it.

May as well give Storey the chance to miss from a yard than have nobody playing up front.

Thatll be why the club have repeatedly said they'll have one provided the Celtic trial goes well then won't it?

 

Really not sure where the feeling that the club is against it comes from, they've been quite clear in what they've said st the roadshows and exhibitions etc.

That was for anyone wondering about demand but I also read the plan, and on police advice, was for a corner.

In announcing this specifically designed seat, Arsenal has taken stadia seating in Britain to a new level, with Emirates Stadium being the first to provide every seat in a stadium with an upholstered seat, thus considerably enhancing spectator comfort.

 

After an extensive research programme, the seat, which is being produced by leading manufacturers Starena International, has been designed to deliver a range of features to enhance the match day experience for spectators and will also provide Arsenal a product which complements the new World class Emirates Stadium, which is due to open in August 2006.

 

Starena, who have produced seating in major arenas including the Olympic Games in Sydney 2000 and Athens 2004, worked on the brief set by Arsenal Managing Director Keith Edelman. Within the revolutionary 'Arsenal Seat' there are integrally fitted pads, as well as a higher back and a larger seat area than in any other stadium in the United Kingdom, thus moving spectator comfort to the forefront of seat design.

So despite having a specially commissioned biggest most comfortable seat in the UK after a research programme, 76% would rather stand. Seating is dead.

Interesting

"In February and March the Arsenal Supporters' Trust asked 7,239 people how they felt about the idea of introduction of safe standing at Emirates Stadium.

Not surprisingly, the opinions were overwhelmingly in favour. What may be surprising is the scale. Massive 96% feel there should be such sections at their stadium and only 20% of them would not wish to stand themselves while letting others occupy such sections. Yes, 76% of surveyed Arsenal fans wish to stand during games.

Possibly the most important data commercially is that from fans attending fewer than 10 games per season. Many of them suggest they would likely come more frequently if allowed to stand during games and thus have a better matchday experience."

http://stadiumdb.com/news/2017/04/london_arsenal_supporters_almost_unanimously_for_safe_standing

I often wonder what I've watched when I read other's analysis. I usually compare mine with the views of neutrals and they tend to be similar.

McLean got caught in possession so many times and decision making for when to pass was hopeless. Not reading the tempo properly ever really.

Shinnie was man of the match by a country mile and a half.

I've read Ryan Jack was outstanding, fought for everything and was a cool head. Totally made up  because he did nothing at all and unsurprisingly so because he was on a suspension

Rooney could have walked off after 13 seconds and it would have made no difference.

We were so in control for the first 30 minutes it's clearly all down to mentality how we play. One hiccup and that never returned the rest of the match. The standard of defending and will to win the ball after our 3rd when the adrenaline was pumping and everyone was so focused, that needs to be replicated over 90 minutes to be a great team and we've only seen that in the home wins over Celtic.

The STV q&a was from 2011 and the SPL's rule. The SPFL when formed in 2013 scrapped all requirements. It can be anything that passes H&S.

Seaton hasn't been proposed officially by anyone, the ITKers (not 100%AKers) have said the council 'found' a site by the beach when it became apparent the club were actually going to disappear from the city centre with the benefits it brings to them. Reading between the lines of all the responses from the ACC councillors in their capacity so far, this adds up pretty much exactly. I think it was the economic one that basically called out the club's efforts to stay in and around Pittodrie as bullshit.

Am not against a standing section by the way,but I seem to remember a bit of a clamour to get a singing section into the Merkland.A lot of the requesters seem to have disappeared.

  There was some demand at the time(I think) to make the whole stand the singing section.Even if youd quadrupled the amount of guys that go in that case,it would still be a tiny percentage of the stand capacity.So,say there was a proper section,eg a standing section cage within the Merkland stand,how much more different would it work to what we have now,and how much more different therefore would it be in a new stadium?

  Though I'm not ruling out a new stadium triggering something more enthusiastic,the club have to work with the only figures theyve got to date to know what type of area there would be demand for....

I remember a heap of fans in their 20s saying they were going to go with their mates and one in particular on facebook saying him and his 15 mates were ready to buy season tickets. I would have gone with everyone I know from our nomadic positions in the south.

I'm not going to a singing section, with 25 flags in the air and a constant drum standing out like fuck, in the blinkin family stand, which is the hard to believe logic failure of the club of 'we'll increase it if the demand is there'. The demand wasn't and isn't there for that, it's for a cheap home end where you can stand with your mates. It would have been great having a full merkland like that for the big games. Cancelled because 500 cunts in the rds claimed they wouldn't renew and the club bottled it. Well how many like the above and families did they cause not to turn up over this season?

This statement intrigues me and I would like to know which clubs have put this as reason.

Groningen and PSV are two I remember. It's on stadiumdb somewhere although PSV have now done it with rail seating.

Do you really think a full bus doing done trip is as cost effective as one partially full or half empty bus doing one trip? Or that a bus doing multiple almost full trips as would be the case in a properly planned service wouldn't be more cost effective than one doing a couple of full runs then a couple of basically empty runs as is the case with the current x17? It's blindingly obvious a properly run shuttle could be more cost effective or cheaper than the service buses.

They haven't though have they? The rules on min capacity in the top league has been relaxed I'll give you that, the rules for standing in the top leagues is limited to the rail style seating as previously mentioned. Doesn't matter if Doncaster likes Arbroath or Ayr or not, they'd not be able to have that layout in the league we are in. Makes it a bit of a pointless argument don't you think?

 

You can suspect all you like, I don't think it's based on anything more than that, if the council had said as much why isn't it mentioned I'm any council plans? Also, a football academy is castle different to a 20k stadium don't you think? Ones ever so slightly bigger than the other...

 

As mentioned previously Aberdeen have said repeatedly that safe standing is an option depending how the trial at Celtic park goes, no part of that suggests the current proposed design couldn't accommodate it. You're making that assumption purely because there's seats there just now despite the club saying there will be a standing area if it's called for and works.

Where does it say anything about the type of standing? I think that was SPL rules before anyone did it. I first read it from QoS/Morton fans talking about what would happen if they were promoted. There's one set of rules for the SPFL.

http://spfl.co.uk/docs/067_324__therulesofthespfl_1375800603.pdf

There's nothing there apart from pitches so I don't see how it would make any difference what it is. It's not marked down as anything or off limits in the 2017 plan.

Heres a random mix of clubs and their shuttle to stadium services,to give you an idea

 

 

Leeds -  https://www.leedsunited.com/club/Matchday-guide

 

Colchester -  http://www.cu-fc.com/news/article/travel-shuttle-bus-224084.aspx

 

Reading -  http://www.readingfc.co.uk/club/travel/buses-trains/

 

 

  Re the standing section -  I'm not sure there would actually be that much of a demand for it.The singing section got their wish for location to the Merkland end(where they stand most of the time anyway),but it hasnt caught on.Whether thats because its mixed with the family section,or the plonkers that go there(or the songs they sing),or maybe just the dour N/E nature.Do you really think there is a demand for it,and how big an area?

Survey of 2500

"If the new stadium included safe

standing, would you prefer to stand

there rather than be in the seated areas?"

Yes 51.80% 1,324

No 31.14% 796

Don't know 17.06% 436

These singing sections are not reflective of anything for loads of reasons.

There's hundreds or thousands depending on the game standing in the south just now anyway and used to be the same in the dick donald.

Well that's not been my experience any time I've used it but ok let's assume every bus is jam packed during rush hour. Do they only run during rush hour? Nope... the prices will reflect that, propping up the times the buses are basically empty so that the service is even remotely economical. Now if there's a proper shuttle service with a much higher utilisation per bus don't you think they could be much cheaper if the drive is there to do it? I'd have thought that's fairly common sense. Relies on it being done properly though admittedly.

I'd have thought in that circumstance it would not be cheaper or perhaps more expensive given it could only hold the capacity of the bus once in a direct trip with not much scope for anything else.

That's not really true, safe standing is allowed however has to be the rail type seating only from what I can tell, you also need a different type of licence to have a safe standing area if you've already got an all seater stadium. Probably not a huge deal but would still be applied for and accepted by all parties (football authorities and councils)

 

So yeah QotS could still use their terraces but they'd need to install rail type seating for it to be used in the majority of the competitions they'd be in.

 

Regardless of how many types of cheap safe standing are used throughout Europe it's only the rail type seating permitted in Scotland. They'd need to be locked open for all European competitions going on the link below. (Note the cost difference too, kind of blows the cheap point out of the water, although I do agree we need a safe standing area.

 

https://stv.tv/sport/football/clubs/celtic/289210-explained-how-safe-standing-would-work-in-scotland/

When the SPFL took over in 2013 they removed basically every stadium requirement. Neil Doncaster article in the Herald in February talking about standing where he says Arbroath and Ayr are two of his favourite grounds.

 

It doesn't matter what aberdeen say about booze at football, it'd take a huge change for it to be brought back, one club won't force that issue.

Clubs will have to force it in the press to make it into parliament or there is no way it is ever going to randomly happen.

I'd imagine it's the space available firstly, can't imagine there's enough land feee without using at least some of the golf course, again some of the more clued up posters could confirm but with access/egress, the stadium and space around it required before you even look at any fan facilities outside it seems like a lot to fit in and not much space without the golf course etc.  Hardly the "enourmous" space you're making out if we exclude the course anyway.

I suspect it's where the council may have said a stadium could go, with all the allusions about Seaton and regeneration and since it's been noted as a potential place for a football academy in previous city plans.

Using an existing Terrace is one thing. Installing a new Terrace is another one.

Yes, and given clubs like St Mirren saying they can't have safe standing because of the architecture and others not being able to have it because it needs the weight spread evenly and not having the correct exits, why are we not planning for that?

Exeter's relatively new terrace...all that anyone needs.

I've not seen any mass claims about free buses, suspect you're generalising based on a couple of wildly optimistic comments. Basing the costs on existing public transport costs for a route that's very much under used and priced in a way to try and make it economical isn't really representative either. The simple truth is nobody knows what it'll cost until it's properly costed. I'd reckon It stands to reason buses operating closer to capacity can be run at a cheaper price than the current almost empty service but that's just how I see it though.

 

As far as I'm aware as well a standing area requires a different licence, something which Celtic have for a trial to see how it works. There are also rules on the design of safe standing areas etc too so you're wife of the mark there. I can't see why the club saying they're keen for standing and they'll evaluate further once they see how it works in reality is downplaying anything, you're just twisting things to suit your agenda now. They've said time and time again there will be a safe standing area if it works.

 

It'll take more than the club supporting it to get booze in the stadium, it'll require police and government support, can you really see it changing any time soon? Also you mentioned beer at German games before, isn't that still very low alcohol (I.e near enough non alcoholic) beer served in Germany? Certainly was last time I was there..which is near enough pointless to be honest.

 

No idea about seaton, haven't looked into it but suspect it'd have the same drawbacks as kings links and would still require buying the golf course.

The X17 is £5.90 return and almost every bus is completely full including standing from Westhill to Union Square and back in the morning and evening.

If any club gets promoted now such as Queen of the South they won't have to install anything and this is their terrace where licenses don't seem to be any issue.

It's only UEFA that require seats and there's loads of cheap different ways used across europe.

Beer in German stadiums I've been in is normally pilsener. Labour and the Tories support alcohol at football now and the nanny section of the SNP do not have a majority and some of their MSPs have even campaigned for it. Really bring the issue into focus and it will be done. Give little murmurings when asked by the press and it's not going to change ever. It needs pressure.

Don't know why it would require the golf course and there seems no problem with the high rises next door.

The club have said they will put on buses, That's different to saying they'll be free though. I've not seen a single person claiming they will be either. Maybe I've just not seen it every time it's mentioned,  been trying to keep out of this lately as I've had better things to do.

 

As for standing, the clubs already said there may well be depending on how the Celtic trial goes. To say it's a universally held belief that an entire side or end will be standing is nonsense from what I've seen, maybe I've missed that being mentioned in every arguement too though...

 

As for the wish list:

 

The transport links needs work, completely agree there. I don't think it's as bad as some make out though and will be fine in time. Given the lack of suitable alternative in the city centre it's a case of being as good as possible rather than anything perfect.

 

Standing I've mentioned above.

 

Cheaper tickets, well it's been the case for years that tickets should be cheaper, same goes for the current stadium. Any new development has to be funded so that there's no increase st the very least.

 

Booze inside the stadium isn't really in the clubs hands is it? They've included a supporters bar in the plans to help with the booze outside the stadium though.

 

Saying it needs to be city centre is all well and good but where's the suitable site coming from?! I've yet to see a single site that's not been shown to be unfeasible on here let alone under the scrutiny of any kind of full study.

 

The basis of ticking a lot off that wish list is there. It just needs to be developed.

 

Making it easy to get to and affordable is a challenge but it's obviously the aim. Making sure the site whether it's kingsford or Loriston or anywhere gives us proper facilities and ticks as many boxes as possible is what the club seems to be trying to do from what I can see.

The belief is that the buses would be free or included with the match ticket or when that falls apart moves to they won't cost £5+. They would if they were being hired and that's what a public bus costs anyway.

The line about the Celtic trial was very odd and to me a clear downplaying of standing or the size of it. There are no rules now about standing or the type required, and the stuff about the councils and safety certificate - there's no brouhaha over it at all at any lower division clubs.

Booze in the stadion - the club tell DST they support it returning and give lines like welcoming looking at the issue when asked by the press. Scotland's 2nd force, along with Celtic calling for it, could have it on the table and done if they wanted to. They did it for rugby 10 years ago. It's not going to change for as long as Aberdeen act like wallflowers.

Has the enormous space next to Seaton towers been found unfeasible?

 

Who's said they would be free? Nobody from what I can tell... basing the cost on an underused service priced to try and make it profitable isn't really representative is it? Yes it'll cost, using that as a huge negative without having the slightest clue about how much proper shuttles will cost is bordering on hysterical, assuming the worst possible scenario.

 

 

Nothing like twisting the truth... the club have said they'll see how the trial Celtic are carrying out goes before committing, pretty sensible don't you think? Plenty time to tweak it if it's shown to work, the licensing is sorted out and there's the need. Carry on misinterpreting what's said and droning on about lies though 

I'd say every single thread of arguments I've seen on social media has included someone saying how will we get there and the response from the 20 yes supporters who jump on the person's case is the club will be putting on buses.

The other almost universally held belief (from those who support it for this reason) is there will be at least a whole end circa 4,000 or even the length of the pitch or both ends standing with cheaper tickets.

I'd like to know why anyone thinks what is planned is reasonable and what we're aiming for.

The dream in everyone's heads and the base of basically every DST survey spiel response is

Good transport links

Cheaper tickets

Standing

Booze outside the ground and eventually in it

Therefore we must be building a stadium with links to everywhere (the city centre), full of cheap standing tickets to get it filled and with a club boozer and outside terrace. Anything else is simply not right.

Make it easy to get to, make it affordable, make it enjoyable and they will come. This, I don't know what the aim is.

See the stuff about slightly increased prices and paying for a better view and shelter from the rain and concourses, I don't think that's what people - especially the awol 18-24 section of aberdeen fans - really care about at all.

All I want is a terrace with affordable tickets to watch football in real life in Aberdeen and beer. Much like why people go to gigs and clubs and festivals and Barry Hearn events. It's the lack of thrilling experience rather than comfort in a nice concourse that's causing us to miss out on tens of thousands of fans.

There's German regional south east division teams in the bottom half of the table getting 7,000 through the door because those 3 mainstays are provided.

That picture from the training game in Dubai has 200 standing on steps with a bottle of Heineken.

Take standing and beer away from Bundesliga games and charge €31 a ticket and they'd also be playing in front of 10,000 in silence.

Nah. It's a shiny new thing. At the very worst, the first season is going to be packed. Good performances on the pitch will see another couple of seasons of crowds that exceed the current crowds. I think you're underestimating the fickle pull of a new thing. I think the 40K cup final crowd is an indicator of how folk get on board for something different. I think there's a good chance that we can keep a healthy portion of fans if we play well in our first few years. However, I don't believe that's a good method for basing a decision to move from a city centre location though. We need to be thinking longer term than 5, or even 10, years. I think losing a city centre location should be an absolute last resort. It currently isn't.

I don't see it. I don't personally know any big game charlies or passive fans or locker room merchants that have said they would go to westhill.

Frankfurt for instance are creating 10,000 more standing spaces to make it cheaper and to get more people through the door.

Other clubs build new or bigger stadiums to accommodate more fans.

Some build them in better locations or closer to their core support or for top of the range transport links.

We're building a stadium no one really likes in a place where 5% of our fans live and will be charging more to the same people currently going with two methods of getting there.

I've never seen any case for moving like this.

Out of interest, what are those prices based on?...

£300 in 2013 £385 in 2017. Match ticket prices up £3. Circa £1m a year to pay for the stadium.

No, I missed some words. I meant to say 3K+ for a start tailing off to about +2K after 5 years. I think it'll be heavily front loaded, but I think we'll get that 20% target over ten years. I think we'll regularly sell out in our first 2 seasons and tail off after that. A lean period (on the pitch) after the first 5 years will really see how the location works out.

How is that going to happen? At this rate it will be £450-500 for a season ticket and match tickets near £30, certainly with paying for the stadium in mind. Add in the extra expense of travel for thousands of city fans or for a parking pass, never mind the fuck about with getting there. It's a tin shed in Westhill in the SPL that will be played in the same drizzle.

I don't see any way it would increase, only drop and very quickly.

One 54 minute wait for a bus to town and not even your home after a game would see to that.

A lot of adverts on the club's main facebook page for hospitality this season, one for a main stand box vs celtic 

And do what exactly?

No idea. Just throwing out a pie in the sky idea like 6000 on 3 routes.

But seriously, the alternatives are a bus shelter on the beach cricket pitch or a smaller, adequate Pittodrie.

  Have been meaning to ask the same thing.Havnt heard much in the way of alternatives....

Buy Rubislaw Quarry.

Didn't say that, but drinkers are in the minority, and you don't *have* to drink. When I stayed in the city, I drank, now I'm outside again I don't. Hard to believe, but it's not compulsory.

 

 

Which isn't many people, and they can get on the ample buses provided

 

 

There's a ton of parking, both at the stadium, Arnhall, and other areas that will undoubtedly open up.

 

 

nope

Drinkers are in the minority.

DST survey said 55% visit bars or restaurants prior to a home match and 25% occasionally.

The yes support is based on no facts, no reality and blind faith in Yule Coaches which covers 2 roads and 13 buses. 

Yes well done, that's the perspective from the opposite side up on the hill, the view that Pinecrest Farm will have in fact, I think you'll find they'll be delighted 

 

 

 

 

 

here's some logic - TAKE. YOUR. CAR!

 

 

 

None, but massive for Kingsford 500yds from the off/on ramps.

Take your car

Even if you're drinking

Or don't own one

Or there are 5000 less spaces than required for that

I think I've thoroughly demonstrated why this is a load of shite.