Author Topic: AFC aspirations  (Read 2608 times)

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Offline rocket_scientist

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AFC aspirations
« on: September 30, 2018, 11:04:24 PM »
Now that the league is over for yet another year - before the end of September - what are your hopes and dreams?

Is it ok that our league campaign is finished after this few games, two thirds of a year before the SPFL gets won by one of our competitors? We have not even played four teams yet this season!

Do you have a wank over the prospect of winning a cup? And how likely is that going to be?

I have no idea what AFC wants, neither the club nor the fans. The last AGM I bothered to attend was 10 years ago where they revealed that the financial plan was to finish 7th. Maybe we are overachieving already?

Fuck knows.


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Offline Ten Caat

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Re: AFC aspirations
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2018, 09:48:24 AM »
Makes no odds what we think. As long as the present system remains, Celtic will operate on a different planet from us due to their financial superiority. And sevco will start winning cups sooner rather than later although I'd love to know who their mystery financial backer is this season and if it falls within financial fair play rules. They could also go bust at any time.....their whole model is a house of cards. Ourselves, Hearts and Hibs might win a cup every 5 years or so (given a kind draw) and a rabbit like Killie or St Johnstone might win one every 20 years or so (given a bizarrely flukey draw).

Even if we suddenly found a financial backer willing to pump millions into us I actually still think we would struggle to recruit the players that would land us the title on account of our geographic position. We are located in a relatively small city in a northern outpost of a tiny country on the periphery of Europe. Just don't think many players would want to up sticks and move to a freezing cold place when they have options in better leagues in countries with a nicer climate (and likely better tax conditions as well).

Offline RicoS321

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Re: AFC aspirations
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2018, 09:56:03 AM »
The league isn't over, you're just a pessimist.

The league is set up to be won by only two of our competitors. It is over before the league starts. You're a betting man, just look at the odds. If the next Fergie is available, we can't afford him anymore and the tragic evidence of the last 20 years shows that McInnes is the best we can hope for.

My aspirations are all political. I want to be part of a competitive league where everyone can win it. I want AFC to be shite some seasons and ace the next. I don't want us to buy the opponents best players anymore than I want the Tims to buy ours. I want our club to challenge the very heart of the institution and tear them to shreds. I want AFC to challenge the european setup, the Scottish setup, the TV contracts, the voting rights, the wage gaps, the share of wealth, the share of coverage, the BBC coverage and I want them to challenge Mikey Devlin's red card decision with pinpoint accuracy rather some shite about VAR. I want them to say we don't need gimmicky shite like VAR. I want them to forcefully and publicly refuse to play at 12pm on a Sunday in the semi-final of a cup. I want them to take a fucking stand for once. I want them to not move to West fucking hill.

Those are the things that actually matter, the fitba can come and go like a manager as far as I'm concerned, because to me that's what fitba - and all sport - is about.

Offline donsdaft

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Re: AFC aspirations
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2018, 10:31:59 AM »
Well said loon

Offline Lencarl

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Re: AFC aspirations
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2018, 10:55:58 AM »
I want a Scottish Premiership without Celtic and Sevco anywhere near it. Really hope they both get their wish and move out of Scottish football taking their Colt clubs with them. What a great Premiership it would be with all teams on a level playing field competing for all competitions. The SFA/SPFL would then have to represent all the clubs in Scotland and not just two. The Scottish Media and TV companies will need to have something else to write and speak about in Scottish football apart from the Glasgow Two.

As far as Aberdeen are concerned, when they move into a new stadium we will see a new force emerge in Scottish Football.. :wave:
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Offline rocket_scientist

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Re: AFC aspirations
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2018, 11:32:41 AM »
The league isn't over, you're just a pessimist.

I want them to not move to West fucking hill.

Those are the things that actually matter, the fitba can come and go like a manager as far as I'm concerned, because to me that's what fitba - and all sport - is about.

Nice speech. You're the bigger pessimist however. You reckon it's over before it starts. I don't think Levein thinks that. I don't think Lennon thinks like that. I don't think Ranieri thought like that. Until Saturday's result, I hoped we had a chance although given our manager, the one you think is the best we can get, I really wasn't expecting anything.

Victimhood is common in Scotland and referees and the authorities are the cheap easy targets. They're no worse than they've always been. We need to be looking closer to home if we want change.

Over 20 years ago, our chairman pressed for us to move to Kingswells. Didn't you find it strange that so soon after him building the RDS that he was proposing relocation? Didn't it smell bad, how he used his supplier and creditor status to usurp the hapless Ian Donald and get on to the board? If you didn't stand up against the chairman in the late 90's in the infamous AGM which basically cost John Stephen and the AFCST any influence and authority going forward, you can't complain that AFC don't stand up for you now. Your personal preference not to relocate to Westhill went when you didn't stand up to the chairman and his patent agenda. As I said, you need to be looking closer to home.
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Offline RicoS321

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Re: AFC aspirations
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2018, 12:38:33 PM »
Nice speech. You're the bigger pessimist however. You reckon it's over before it starts. I don't think Levein thinks that. I don't think Lennon thinks like that. I don't think Ranieri thought like that. Until Saturday's result, I hoped we had a chance although given our manager, the one you think is the best we can get, I really wasn't expecting anything.

I don't care what Lennon, Levein or McInnes think I'm simply stating a fact. The league is set up for one (maybe now pushing toward two again) to win. No amount of enthusiasm or optimism will change that. That a single team will one day defy the odds is not what I'm arguing. At present that looks like a one in forty year chance which is where my issue lies. 

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Victimhood is common in Scotland and referees and the authorities are the cheap easy targets. They're no worse than they've always been. We need to be looking closer to home if we want change.

Agreed. We (AFC) don't even state that there is an issue. I'm not blaming the referees (especially not the refs) or the authorities, I'm very much in the "if AFC don't do something why should the authorities". Take the recent cup schedule. Our statement didn't pinpoint a solution and it offered zero defiance. It was a meaningless whinge, much like our Devlin statement. I'm not partisan when it comes to AFC, I think we're way too compromising. To the extent that we're compromised.

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Over 20 years ago, our chairman pressed for us to move to Kingswells. Didn't you find it strange that so soon after him building the RDS that he was proposing relocation? Didn't it smell bad, how he used his supplier and creditor status to usurp the hapless Ian Donald and get on to the board? If you didn't stand up against the chairman in the late 90's in the infamous AGM which basically cost John Stephen and the AFCST any influence and authority going forward, you can't complain that AFC don't stand up for you now. Your personal preference not to relocate to Westhill went when you didn't stand up to the chairman and his patent agenda. As I said, you need to be looking closer to home.

I was too young and pished to gie a fuck then. I do remember hating the idea of moving to Kingswells. I do remember the EE and such like showing exciting pictures, but I think even they might have been hostile to it. I remember reading the red final and their associated hatred of Milne's ideas (and Milne from memory). In hindsight, I don't see any evidence to understand his motivations. I just think that his ideas are shite and they'll be the end of AFC.

Offline rocket_scientist

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Re: AFC aspirations
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2018, 02:46:25 PM »
I don't care what Lennon, Levein or McInnes think I'm simply stating a fact. The league is set up for one (maybe now pushing toward two again) to win. No amount of enthusiasm or optimism will change that. That a single team will one day defy the odds is not what I'm arguing. At present that looks like a one in forty year chance which is where my issue lies.

I don't understand your argument that "the league is set up..." and I don't see the "fact" you're stating.

You should care what McInnes thinks. When a manager doesn't strive to win and arguably is only here for the wage and looking to use AFC as a stepping stone, we can't expect the players to overachieve. When his boss, the chairman is more interested in pursuing his own agenda and doesn't give a fuck about the football, we get the inevitable results, which may be good enough for many, the securing of the coming second trophy (which isn't happening this season).
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Offline RicoS321

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Re: AFC aspirations
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2018, 03:16:34 PM »
I don't understand your argument that "the league is set up..." and I don't see the "fact" you're stating.

You should care what McInnes thinks. When a manager doesn't strive to win and arguably is only here for the wage and looking to use AFC as a stepping stone, we can't expect the players to overachieve. When his boss, the chairman is more interested in pursuing his own agenda and doesn't give a fuck about the football, we get the inevitable results, which may be good enough for many, the securing of the coming second trophy (which isn't happening this season).

I think it's quite obvious. The league is setup in such a way that winning it disproportionally increases the chances of winning it again. As I said, winning the league would be a 1 in 40 year anomoly (at least, I'm projecting on current trend of 33 years). That's a structural/systemic issue, nothing less. It can be clearly demonstrated to have worsened since the advent of the Champions league and/or Europa League. It can clearly be demonstrated by the financial disparity caused only by prize funds. It can clearly be demonstrated by using data from the English leagues based on league position vs money spent, which I've linked on here before (95% correlation I think).

I'm saying I don't care what McInnes thinks because it's irrelevant not because I don't care about his aspirations for AFC. If McInnes went into every season believing he could win the league like you suggest Levein does and Lennon does (I doubt either of them do) then it would still not fix the systemic issue of our league setup and the chances of us winning would still be 1 in 40 years.

Offline rocket_scientist

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Re: AFC aspirations
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2018, 04:03:51 PM »
Financial disparity is a fact of life, albeit very badly managed by UEFA in particular, the concept of "financial fair play" being a hollow joke. But we saw under Deila and we are seeing this season - despite coming off two straight trebles - that Celtic are not invincible and never have been despite a huge and disproportionate fiscal advantage.

It is the ambition to compete that is relevant here. Our chairman originally proposed a 12,500 seater new stadium "with expansion possibilities". I just didn't get that. How about building a football team that people want to watch, thereby upping the revenue streams and getting more competitive?

Without the will to win, an individual or an organisation won't. It sounds like you've given up hope of winning the league. That's a dream and aspiration that has never left me. In fact, it is my - and it should be the club's - biggest goal at the start of every season. The financial disparity gives Celtic a massive advantage as they can afford to pay bigger wages and therefore a better class of footballer but it's not an insurmountable hurdle, as I'm sure someone will prove if not this season, next.
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Offline 360

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Re: AFC aspirations
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2018, 04:31:02 PM »
The best that we can hope for is that we don't move to that stupid shitty stadium in the middle of nowhere, and that the happy clappers who have ruined our support do one ASAP.
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Offline Jute

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Re: AFC aspirations
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2018, 08:48:01 PM »
I look for us to be challenging for league every season. I get that we start at a disadvantage due to financial clout of Celtic and the Tribute Act but if the club can get the right balance between bringing through our own players and brining in talent from elsewhere on the back of a proper scouting network then it should be impossible to compete with them. Building a purpose built training facility will hopefully help towards this.

Don’t get folk saying they want to see Celtic and Tribute Act out of the league as they are too big. Always going to be teams that are bigger than others.

Offline Ten Caat

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Re: AFC aspirations
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2018, 09:15:36 PM »

Don’t get folk saying they want to see Celtic and Tribute Act out of the league as they are too big. Always going to be teams that are bigger than others.

The world......and football.....has changed since the days of the mid eighties when were winning championships. n those days we were the highest paying team in Scotland.....and Man U got a shock when they came in for Fergie and Knox and found out we were paying Knox more than they were Ron Atkinson whom they had just fired.

The sad fact is no team outwith Celtic and sevco will ever win the league again under the present circumstances. And sevco I reckon are at least 3 years away from doing it........if they don't go bust trying beforehand. Hearts have a decent lead atm but they have yet to face us, sevco and Hibs. They will drop points soon and Celtic will be ahead of them by late November at the latest. Sevco will overtake them in the New Year. I think ourselves, Hearts and Hibs will cut each others throats but this season I reckon they have just got too much of a lead for us to claw it back.

Buying the league as Celtic do just isn't the sport I knew when growing up. A Celtic and sevco-less league would produce different champions most years....i doubt any team would ever win more than 2 or 3 in a row at most. But our chairman licks the dangleberries off the arses of both cheeks. "We need a strong Rangers".......no Wiggy we need a dead sevco and a Celtic playing elsewhere

Offline rocket_scientist

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Re: AFC aspirations
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2018, 12:16:06 AM »
Don’t get folk saying they want to see Celtic and Tribute Act out of the league as they are too big. Always going to be teams that are bigger than others.

I've never understood this either.

They are Scottish (even though they think they're Irish on one cheek and British on the other) therefore they play in Scotland.

The fact that they are big clubs doesn't mean they should play with the big clubs in another country.

Plus, how hollow would it feel winning the Scottish premier division without the two biggest Scottish clubs?

The only thing driving this argument is money and greed. Plus delusions of superiority of course.

And weak weak Scotsmen who whine and bitch that "we can't beat them boo hoo hoo".
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Offline manc_don

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Re: AFC aspirations
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2018, 06:21:31 AM »
Always want to win a league with those two horrible teams in it. I would love a year zero where we could start a league on the majorities terms, rather than to the benefit of one /two teams. Wiggly really fucked that opportunity up for the whole of Scotland. I don't doubt others would have listened to him if that was his attitude.

Offline RicoS321

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Re: AFC aspirations
« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2018, 09:13:57 AM »
I've never understood this either.

They are Scottish (even though they think they're Irish on one cheek and British on the other) therefore they play in Scotland.

The fact that they are big clubs doesn't mean they should play with the big clubs in another country.

Plus, how hollow would it feel winning the Scottish premier division without the two biggest Scottish clubs?

The only thing driving this argument is money and greed. Plus delusions of superiority of course.

And weak weak Scotsmen who whine and bitch that "we can't beat them boo hoo hoo".

It would be as hollow as winning the league when you have over ten times the budget of your nearest competitor in a sport where there is a direct correlation - and near one-to-one link - between league position and spending on wages.

I agree though, it would be hollow. I'd far rather that AFC got together with the other clubs and fought for a fairer distribution of prize funds so that there was a more level playing field on day one. That would involve AFC, too, handing back its European funds too for the greater benefit of the league. What AFC did when Sevco went tits up was to try and take their place. We'll see this season, and in the coming years, how short sighted that was by our chairman.

I enjoy the fact that our shite signings this season have made us a worse team than Hearts and probably Hibs, and their signings given them the edge. To me, that's what fitba is about. I'd rather that Motherwell, St Johnstone, Hamilton and so on were given a better distribution of the income so that we can get better as a league rather than just individuals.

To me, the scum are no different to the rich kids that run our country through the makings of their own inherited fortune. Fitba is often a good mirror of life, with Scottish fitba an excellent illustration of how money begets money.

Offline rocket_scientist

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Re: AFC aspirations
« Reply #16 on: October 02, 2018, 09:49:06 AM »
Your quest for fairness is certainly both passionate and admirable but "enjoying" McInnes signing shite is revealing.

You sir, are a freak. But you are also an intelligent man who didn't explode at this, where the average fuckwit sees red at a perceived sleight.

Being different from the crowd is of course necessary but your difference is typically (and possibly uniquely) North East. I've always said that the best quality of this part of the world is it's integrity. It's painful to watch at times, and almost manifests itself as naive gullibility whereby we can understand how we lost our whole country to skilled and sleekit professional political classes but being so committed to fairness that you enjoy our own failings is wow.

The NFL draft is brilliant, how the weakest teams get the first picks. You're right about the need for healthy competition. A level playing field is essential for maintaining long term interest. I just never considered it a good thing that our own manager being a fuck up helped the cause. As interesting a post I've ever read on a fitba forum. Thanks for being a freaky outlier. I like outliers.
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Offline Tyrant

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Re: AFC aspirations
« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2018, 11:11:23 AM »
Makes no odds what we think. As long as the present system remains, Celtic will operate on a different planet from us due to their financial superiority. And sevco will start winning cups sooner rather than later although I'd love to know who their mystery financial backer is this season and if it falls within financial fair play rules. They could also go bust at any time.....their whole model is a house of cards. Ourselves, Hearts and Hibs might win a cup every 5 years or so (given a kind draw) and a rabbit like Killie or St Johnstone might win one every 20 years or so (given a bizarrely flukey draw).

Even if we suddenly found a financial backer willing to pump millions into us I actually still think we would struggle to recruit the players that would land us the title on account of our geographic position. We are located in a relatively small city in a northern outpost of a tiny country on the periphery of Europe. Just don't think many players would want to up sticks and move to a freezing cold place when they have options in better leagues in countries with a nicer climate (and likely better tax conditions as well).


I hear/read this all the time. They have 4 times the number of season ticket holders as us. Maybe even more.

Offline Ten Caat

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Re: AFC aspirations
« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2018, 11:53:27 AM »

I hear/read this all the time. They have 4 times the number of season ticket holders as us. Maybe even more.

Been printed in the press (I know I know) on a number of occasions, he supposedly wants anonymity. Theyve got over 40k season ticket holders but it's only this season theyve outspent the Dhims and started paying £3million for players so I'm inclined to believe it. I dont think even sevco would be mad enough to splash the kind of cash they have without having it covered. If they had spunked all that without a backer and not made the Europa League play offs, they would now be in a financial black hole that could have bust them before Xmas.

As it is, their gamble has paid off and even if no more cash is injected, they are probably ok financially for at least this season and next now.

Offline Kowalski

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Re: AFC aspirations
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2018, 01:56:20 PM »
Now that the league is over for yet another year - before the end of September - what are your hopes and dreams?

Bang on the money as usual.

Fuck it, lets win the league! It's wide open with lots of teams capable of taking points off one another.
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