TENEMENTFUNSTER Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 The difference for me is not so much the players that Calderwood has signed, the crux of the issue for me is that although we have been weakened with the departure of Clark and Hart, we still have the third best squad in the SPL and the problem is either JC's lack of ability to empower the players or the players ability to motivate themselves. I don't believe for a second that Dods, Gomis or Conway are in any way good enough to play for AFC (nor indeed I believe are Mair or Duff, but that is an entirely different argument), but the difference is that Levein has a way of getting the best out of his players, silk purses and sows ears and all that. If not for the pathetically useless deployment of tactics in the last couple of months, there is a definite issue with motivation somewhere along the line. I would hazard a guess (and it is an educated one at that) that certain players are frustrated with being shunted around the team from week to week and that that in turn has a demoralising effect on the team. Yes, they should be professional enough to deal with it, but so too should the person who selects the team to realise that he is in effect contributing the the decline in standards at the club. I still think our players are better. That leaves more issues, Calderwoods ability to motivate them, though in a semi-final they shouldn't need any and his ability to convey his tactics to them. Calderwood, IMO, is dealing with the thickest team in the SPL and still insists upon employing different formations and tactics on a weekly basis. This is our problem. I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcorner Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 I thought Gomis was one of the the players running the midfield on Tuesday night, Conway wasn't bad either. Dods however is gash. The worrying thing is that he still had Miller and co in his pocket for the whole game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Tradesman Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating the sacking of Calderwood in any way, but the board needs to see the way we are going if the slide continues, and slide we will until certain individuals take responsibilty for what is going on. The problem with that is that the board think that sticking a few press statements out to the EE slating the fans for not turning up is the way to get bums on seats. If they were concerned at all with what the fans want then they'd at least bother to ask them. They couldn't give a flying fuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc_don Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 The problem with that is that the board think that sticking a few press statements out to the EE slating the fans for not turning up is the way to get bums on seats. If they were concerned at all with what the fans want then they'd at least bother to ask them. They couldn't give a flying fuck. I actually sent an email a while back to the club with regard to their attempts to entice people back to Pittodrie. I never received a reply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TENEMENTFUNSTER Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 I actually sent an email a while back to the club with regard to their attempts to entice people back to Pittodrie. I never received a reply. Most folk don't mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc_don Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Most folk don't mate. Just pisses me off since I actually spent time to structure it and enforce the idea I wasn't attacking the club?!? Just giving them some ideas. Typical of how our club is run from top to bottom really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilbobaggins Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Since it was 8 years since our last semi final, losing one can hardly be grounds for dismissal. If we sack our manager for losing in a semi final you give him and the team no chance to learn from their mistakes. Many of those boys had never played at such a stage before and maybe now they know what's required and maybe they are better equipped and more hungry for next time. Sometimes you have to learn the hard way and the good thing is thay the boys can put it right on Sunday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BTR Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 The problem with that is that the board think that sticking a few press statements out to the EE slating the fans for not turning up is the way to get bums on seats. If they were concerned at all with what the fans want then they'd at least bother to ask them. They couldn't give a flying fuck. Yep and these so called intelligent men on the board surely must realise there is a tacit understanding between fans and the club about what is acceptable fare to be presenting when Saturday comes. They only serve to alienate their support further with their desperate attempts to "rally the troops" and as has been said in the other thread the only thing that matters to most of us is not taking notice of soundbites from various AFC personnel in the papers, but getting value for money when we follow our team, something that each individual can make their own mind up about, but in my opinion we've not been getting that this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyBiscuit Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Since it was 8 years since our last semi final, losing one can hardly be grounds for dismissal. You're right. But I don't think people are wanting changes just because we lost a semi final. If we sack our manager for losing in a semi final you give him and the team no chance to learn from their mistakes. Many of those boys had never played at such a stage before and maybe now they know what's required and maybe they are better equipped and more hungry for next time. This is surely part of the biggest problem though. The same mistakes are being made too often. Do you really think JC will change significantly enough that a complete turn around in performance and attitude will occur on Sunday? Sometimes you have to learn the hard way and the good thing is thay the boys can put it right on Sunday. Of course I really, really hope that they do. Can I see it happening? Not at all. I am really worried about Sunday. And as for Thursday... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mizer Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Rant about that too if you want, but you're both bleathering nothing short of complete and utter speculation. Sorry, we were at the game and most of the humiliating defeats this season you weren't! The boy is allowed 6 weeks holidays just as you and I are. It'll be in his contract and it's not like he's skipping the country and phoning in sick. I don't get 6 weeks and if I did I couldn't take them as I have an vital job to do. My mate I was playing football with tonight told me he lost 12 days holiday as couldn't take them all as he has an important job to do for the government. Overall JC has a less important job, but gets paid more and who the fuck here wouldn't mind going to see a few games of football and viewing some players on a saturday during your hols? I know I do it for a fun day out during close season! But you both seem to know for a fact he doesn't have a list of players. Roll Eyes Yes it is the Dundee Utd reserves or shit Dunfermline players. Whereas I'd say Opinions are like arseholes, evryone has one and most of them stink yaddah yaddah - dont think yours is better than mine or the chimps. I am willing to argue it logically all day long if you want. he has a list of players who he'll have told Miller he wants. Miller deals with contract negotiations so depending on budget, he'll take the list and score a black marker through the top twenty who will require fees. Another twenty will be marked off because of they wages they command, then Miller hands him the list back with United rejects. Yes of course he wants players that will have a fee, but our debt is getting worse and that has to be our priority. Are you saying that the best free players out there in Scotland are Night Mair and Duff by name duff by nature? As chimp pointed out there is better, Im not the person to ask but someone like jute could run off many players. The big money wage spend of Jackie McNamara was fraught with danger, as at Celtic he was often crocked and at Wolves he was injured about half the time he was there. He is only getting older, its a gamble that hasn't paid off as he is too slow through age and injuries. Lee Miller also on high wages, is playing better this season but is still not worth the money IMHO, and since he has got his new contract has disappear from the goal sheet worryingly. Wages demands like that also have a constraint on the club. I'll tell you what Mizer, here's £100. Go down to Dixons and buy me a 50' plasma with surround sound and one of those Lazy-boyz reclining leather chairs. Roll Eyes Wow, great argument (I may even use one of your favourite smilies) But to humour you. We are not a shopper that can afford to buy at Dixons, the reality is we are a cash converters shopper as only the tinks that use it have the equivalent debt, but if you have a good look there are bargains to be found. We cant have the 50' plasma, only the Man Utds of this world can afford them! I would be quite happy for a working small TV, with a comfy chair not smelling of cat piss/puke/shit. Now if you wasn't blinded by your hatred for JC you might go down town and buy me a handful of cinema tickets. Not quite the same thing but you'll have made do with the scraps you've got and found a half decent alternative for the time being. I will start with the cinema tickets. Yes I may well be going to the cinema more and attending as many games as you do. Not only me I but I know of several other people who are going to reduce the number of games or not go at all as we are severely pissed off with the current situation. Several members of the globes have removed their ticket application for the hibs game next weekend, the number of tickets is a record low order for us for a game in Edinburgh. Its a bit like hangovers, you say you are not going to drink again, but already this season I have said I am not going back (after the falkirk away cup tie) but I was dragged back. The difference this time is that several people have said the same thing. I can have a good time doing other things at the weekend why put myself through it all? Im not blinded by it, my annoyance comes from people like yourself defending JC to the hilt, even though he is clearly culpable. Using shit arguments like heres a £100 go buy X & Y - No shit sherlock! And the good old "He is better than Paterson", come on try a bit harder (even though you never used it, it just sends me through the roof). Ask any of the posters that know me, I am a very placid person, I am 99% sure I was the only person in the ground on Tuesday (supporting the dons) laughing at full time at the total shambles as I can normally see the funny side to things. But I am totally flummoxed by so many people coming on and backing him and saying its not that bad and for instance Kowalsi saying we have taken a step forward.....its like I'm waking into a parallel universe where gravity has been reversed and giant penguins wearing pink Paisley pattern ties are running the world from downtown Mintlaw! I just want to grab you all and shake you and scream what the fuck are you talking about?? Because I'm confused and utterly bemused at your undying belief in the glorious orange leader! (Yes I'm writing this bit last, the other bits still to read are me less happy at your post) Of course when you come back with that I'll moan you wasn't working Xmas day, your skin tone, how you need to drop a few kilos and the way you were waving your hands around when you was complaining about the price of cinema tickets these days. Roll Eyes Look at the big fucking picture for once.... I have been looking at the big picture for years as I saw what he did to Dunfermline long term and has been doing to Aberdeen. My mate was one of the few Pars fans not upset when he left as he predicted they would be in trouble long term, and he was correct. We have got old crippled players on long contacts and no youth set-up. Crowds are dropping, therefore less money for the team and increasing debt. Any manager we have in the door will have to work under the same constraints. Plenty have been shown the door before JC and they've embarressed us a lot more than he has. At least they wont play 4-fucking-5-fucking-1 and then wont change it when it is plain bloody obvious to everyone else it isn't working. The whole crowd knew it wasn't working, or that no midfielders were getting up to support Miller on Tuesday. And yes any new manager would have to put up with the same old crocked players as they are in long term contract, but they could play 442 and make the situation better instantly. Milne is holding this club back and he's the one you should be venting your fury at. Yes I think Milne is a cunt, he gave JC a 3 year contract when it was clear (to me and many others) we were struggling. But who out there is willing to come in and buy-out Milne - no one! We are stuck with him and JC as we cannot get rid of him as we cant afford to. I see there is £93 million in the lottery this weekend, lets all get some tickets and cross our fingers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackie's ace! Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 I gave up near the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glasgow sheep Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 I gave up near the end. I read it all JC is a cunt ST is talking crap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mizer Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 I read it all JC is a cunt ST is talking crap You forgot about the 'giant penguins wearing pink Paisley pattern ties are running the world from down-town Mintlaw' - I went off on a bit of a tangent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilbobaggins Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Sorry, we were at the game and most of the humiliating defeats this season you weren't! I don't get 6 weeks and if I did I couldn't take them as I have an vital job to do. My mate I was playing football with tonight told me he lost 12 days holiday as couldn't take them all as he has an important job to do for the government. Overall JC has a less important job, but gets paid more and who the fuck here wouldn't mind going to see a few games of football and viewing some players on a saturday during your hols? I know I do it for a fun day out during close season! Yes it is the Dundee Utd reserves or shit Dunfermline players. Opinions are like arseholes, evryone has one and most of them stink yaddah yaddah - dont think yours is better than mine or the chimps. I am willing to argue it logically all day long if you want. Yes of course he wants players that will have a fee, but our debt is getting worse and that has to be our priority. Are you saying that the best free players out there in Scotland are Night Mair and Duff by name duff by nature? As chimp pointed out there is better, Im not the person to ask but someone like jute could run off many players. The big money wage spend of Jackie McNamara was fraught with danger, as at Celtic he was often crocked and at Wolves he was injured about half the time he was there. He is only getting older, its a gamble that hasn't paid off as he is too slow through age and injuries. Lee Miller also on high wages, is playing better this season but is still not worth the money IMHO, and since he has got his new contract has disappear from the goal sheet worryingly. Wages demands like that also have a constraint on the club. Wow, great argument (I may even use one of your favourite smilies) But to humour you. We are not a shopper that can afford to buy at Dixons, the reality is we are a cash converters shopper as only the tinks that use it have the equivalent debt, but if you have a good look there are bargains to be found. We cant have the 50' plasma, only the Man Utds of this world can afford them! I would be quite happy for a working small TV, with a comfy chair not smelling of cat piss/puke/shit. I will start with the cinema tickets. Yes I may well be going to the cinema more and attending as many games as you do. Not only me I but I know of several other people who are going to reduce the number of games or not go at all as we are severely pissed off with the current situation. Several members of the globes have removed their ticket application for the hibs game next weekend, the number of tickets is a record low order for us for a game in Edinburgh. Its a bit like hangovers, you say you are not going to drink again, but already this season I have said I am not going back (after the falkirk away cup tie) but I was dragged back. The difference this time is that several people have said the same thing. I can have a good time doing other things at the weekend why put myself through it all? Im not blinded by it, my annoyance comes from people like yourself defending JC to the hilt, even though he is clearly culpable. Using shit arguments like heres a £100 go buy X & Y - No shit sherlock! And the good old "He is better than Paterson", come on try a bit harder (even though you never used it, it just sends me through the roof). Ask any of the posters that know me, I am a very placid person, I am 99% sure I was the only person in the ground on Tuesday (supporting the dons) laughing at full time at the total shambles as I can normally see the funny side to things. But I am totally flummoxed by so many people coming on and backing him and saying its not that bad and for instance Kowalsi saying we have taken a step forward.....its like I'm waking into a parallel universe where gravity has been reversed and giant penguins wearing pink Paisley pattern ties are running the world from downtown Mintlaw! I just want to grab you all and shake you and scream what the fuck are you talking about?? Because I'm confused and utterly bemused at your undying belief in the glorious orange leader! (Yes I'm writing this bit last, the other bits still to read are me less happy at your post) I have been looking at the big picture for years as I saw what he did to Dunfermline long term and has been doing to Aberdeen. My mate was one of the few Pars fans not upset when he left as he predicted they would be in trouble long term, and he was correct. We have got old crippled players on long contacts and no youth set-up. Crowds are dropping, therefore less money for the team and increasing debt. At least they wont play 4-fucking-5-fucking-1 and then wont change it when it is plain bloody obvious to everyone else it isn't working. The whole crowd knew it wasn't working, or that no midfielders were getting up to support Miller on Tuesday. And yes any new manager would have to put up with the same old crocked players as they are in long term contract, but they could play 442 and make the situation better instantly. Yes I think Milne is a cunt, he gave JC a 3 year contract when it was clear (to me and many others) we were struggling. But who out there is willing to come in and buy-out Milne - no one! We are stuck with him and JC as we cannot get rid of him as we cant afford to. I see there is £93 million in the lottery this weekend, lets all get some tickets and cross our fingers! Don't underestimate yourself now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Tradesman Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Sorry, we were at the game and most of the humiliating defeats this season you weren't! Correct. I wasn’t at any of those games. But unless the half time entertainment consisted of Willie Miller telling the crowd that JC “didn’t have a list of players ear-marked because he was sunning his tits offâ€, then I’ll still forward the opinion that you’re making up porky pies. I don't get 6 weeks and if I did I couldn't take them as I have an vital job to do. My mate I was playing football with tonight told me he lost 12 days holiday as couldn't take them all as he has an important job to do for the government. Overall JC has a less important job, but gets paid more and who the fuck here wouldn't mind going to see a few games of football and viewing some players on a saturday during your hols? I know I do it for a fun day out during close season! Let’s not compare one job with another as my mate is a postie and gets every afternoon off but works like fuck during the big holidays whilst I'm sitting with my feet up. If it’s in your contract that you have X amount of weeks holiday and you’re stupid enough not to take them, then on your own head be it. Opinions are like arseholes, evryone has one and most of them stink yaddah yaddah - dont think yours is better than mine or the chimps. I am willing to argue it logically all day long if you want. Let me know when you start. Im not blinded by it, my annoyance comes from people like yourself defending JC to the hilt, even though he is clearly culpable. He is culpable but you are blinded by your rage for him as once he’s gone, the next manager will still have to work under the same crippling constraints. He can only piss with the cock he’s got and he keeps getting pieces sliced off by the board and handed a couple flakes of skin to somehow put it back together again. He’s taken us to February and we were still in all competitions. The club are raking money in left right and centre. The January window opens and out goes 2 of our regular starters that he wouldn’t have sold in a million years and his other mainstay Nicolson is still not any closer to re-signing. Put your blind hatred to the side for just one moment and think about that for a minute…. Do you honestly think any manager can work under those conditions and expect to have a better team because of it?! The club have sold us up the swanny, they had a spectacular time to show us a bit of gratitude for our support by backing the manager (be that bringing in suitable replacements or keeping the squad together until the end of the season) but they’ve royally fucked us over. They punted two of our players with only a matter of days to get other bargain basement refills in before we faced two important cup games and two UEFA cup games. Something about penguins and parallel universes Like I said, get back to me when you want to “argue logically all day longâ€, let me know. I have been looking at the big picture for years as I saw what he did to Dunfermline long term and has been doing to Aberdeen. My mate was one of the few Pars fans not upset when he left as he predicted they would be in trouble long term, and he was correct. We have got old crippled players on long contacts and no youth set-up. Crowds are dropping, therefore less money for the team and increasing debt. Again you’re not looking at the big picture, you’re looking at JC and you’re being blinded by your rage for him. JC is not the big picture, nor was his time at Dunfermline. Aberdeen Football Club is the big picture as far as I’m concerned. Using your own arguments, try looking at the reasons why “our debt is getting worse†and why “we are a cash converters shopperâ€. JC can be blamed for a lot of things but to blame him for putting Dunfermline into debt is ludicrous! He never sneaked into the coffers to empty the till, he wasn’t empting the bank accounts in the dead of night. The chairman handed him the dosh. As for these aging, crippled players on long contracts. Who are they exactly? Last I remembered people were complaining all our players are only on 1 or 2 year contracts and that it was a disgrace that so many were out of contract at the same time. The youth set-up is being looked at, there’s regular news articles appearing almost weekly on Redweb about it. I keep hearing JC won’t give youth a chance but please let me know who you’d pick out of the current bunch. There’s no denying that the football is poor but please stop making things up to make it appear worse than it is. We’re in 5th place, we’ve lost 2 of our first picks, we’re going through a sticky patch but we’re still only 2 wins off of 3rd place. If you want to complain about anything other than the tactics, formations or squad then feel free. Anything else then please, for my sanity, do it here - http://www.afc-chat.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=12490 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TENEMENTFUNSTER Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 I tried reading that Mizer. You said something about arguing logically . . . . Deary me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilbobaggins Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 I tried reading that Mizer. You said something about arguing logically . . . . Deary me. It read like a rugger fan wrote it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TENEMENTFUNSTER Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 It read like a rugger fan wrote it. A fan of rugby players perhaps . . . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilbobaggins Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 A fan of rugby players perhaps . . . . . Yeah, did he tell you he's got a really important job though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Tradesman Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Must be too busy to reply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TENEMENTFUNSTER Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Yeah, did he tell you he's got a really important job though? Those cushions won't arrange themselves . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilbobaggins Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Must be too busy to reply. Yeah, if he stopped what he was doing the Atlas Mountains would slip into the sea triggering a Tsunami and the world, as we know it, would end. Or maybe a quango would just fail to deliver more spurious research material. Who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Tradesman Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 I've no idea where he finds time to do all that whilst carrying the weight of the world on his shoulders. But I'm glad he does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mizer Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Don't underestimate yourself now. I meant my mate, not me. But yes what I do is more than important than JC, I only wish I was on his wages. In fact many of the posters on here have more important jobs than he does. If it’s in your contract that you have X amount of weeks holiday and you’re stupid enough not to take them, then on your own head be it. Cheers for calling me stupid, but I am the only person doing my job and the work will have to be done. Plus I don't work for a big corporate oil construction firm or the likes, I'm here to help people stop losing their livelyhoods. Back to JC, other managers don't take the same extended break... He can only piss with the cock he’s got and he keeps getting pieces sliced off by the board Are the board looking for someone to do this? I would quite happily take time out of my schedule to do this for free He’s taken us to February and we were still in all competitions. You saying we could have still won the SPL? And since when hass it successful to get to the semi-finals of the cis and past the entry round of the Scottish cup?? Yes we have done fucking brilliant in Europe, beyond even the most optimistic fans wildest dreams. But the only way you can say if it has been a successful season is at the end, lets wait to then please. Do you honestly think any manager can work under those conditions and expect to have a better team because of it?!. If they didnt choose to play 4-5-1, every away game - YES! Even funster would agree that. He has it in his mind that it works, but it doesnt. It was like last year and the 2-3-5 strategy which had no support for the mass of players up front, he kept doing it until Hibs nailed us 4-1 in the cup. I can only hope he now realises that his new formation doesnt work for the team he has assembled. He is culpable Holy handbaskets batman! Never thought you could utter such sacreligous words The club have sold us up the swanny No the club need to control the debt, debt is increasing at the moment due to the wages the players are on and falling crowds. Yes they have made poor financial plans as you say when they gave him money to play with as did Dunfermline. But he cant expect to pay any transfer fees in the current situation. we’re still only 2 wins off of 3rd place. We may only be 6 points off 3rd but we are only 6 points above hearts in 9th. Lets see how we get on in the next month (5 games) playing the top 3 teams (all three have pumped us 3-0 this season) and the shit killie and misfiring hibs. I have grave fears we will do poorly going on curret form so will be avoiding them. Must be too busy to reply. Sorry, yes I have. Fuck writing this has taken me a few mins and it is past 6 on a friday and still in work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montana Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Got my Euro Millions ticket - currently daydreaming about handing Wiggy a cheque and seeing him meander off into the distance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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