bilbobaggins

Hmm, the definition of "causing" in that quote is extremely dubious in the respect that the crush obviously led to the disaster, but wasn't the only ingredient in the mix.  There's little doubt that letting them in resulted in a crush, but that crush wasn't subsequently attenuated as a result of the anti-invasion perimeter fencing which in turn led to people dying, and therefore the bigger disaster.  That's to say without the crush there wouldn't have been a disaster, but the crush alone didn't actually cause the disaster, ergo the police didn't directly cause the disaster.  They were certainly negligent and perhaps reckless, but in light of the measures and cultural conditions of the day, they weren't solely to blame.

 

I'm being picky I know, but I think it's dangerous to point fingers.  I've read a fair bit about crowd safety over the years and I'm separating the actual disaster here from the events of yesterday, though I'm genuinely as repulsed by the lies as the next person (well so long as that person isn't a friend or relative of the 96), but to suggest that the disaster - not the lies - was the police's fault is just plain inaccurate in my view.

I think you have to look at causation in the legal sense.  In English law causation is a question of a "but for" test. Basically would the disatster have taken place if all of these fuck ups hadn't happened

The state and it's institutions had a duty of care, they fundamentally failed in that duty (stadium not fit for purpose, lack of preparation, no security certificate, opening the gate etc). 

Personally I think causation is a no brainer, if the FA, police, Sheffield council and Sheffield Wednesday had done their jobs even moderately well, it wouldn't have happened.

A Persecution complex?

Fuck sake.

My old teams first ever Scottish Cup proper tie today. My mate stepped down as manager after a great league win but the new man looks to have started well.

Come on the Hermes.

I've been to Warsaw. Go to Lazienki Park, it's pretty cool. Loads of people go there in the evenings as well. Watch out for racist taxi drivers, a bit like Aberdeen in that respect.

There is fuck all anywhere near Charleroi, it's crap.

I read he's going to play Gary Caldwell in midfield. In a friendly.

Is anyone going to actually spend money to see this shite?

Can someone explain to me how, despite being total gash for several years but fluking a win in one tournament, Woods is No4 in the world?

 

Does he get triple points for being Tiger?

 

I'd have thought some of the regular top 10s on the PGA tour would be above him, let alone players that have won majors recently?

I'd imagine it's related to him being the only golfer to win 3 times on the PGA tour this year.

Yep, largely the best sporting event anywhere.The Rangers FC 2012 v Peterhead 5th place play off excluded.

Looks like it will be quite receptive and it'll absolutely depend on the wind. My money might be on Dufner, just because I love the way he swings the club, Hogan like. Cabrera Bello as my outsider EW.

Milne needs to distance himself from this sham of a league ASA fucking P.

Excatly the point. We should be talking about applying the rules for a newco rather than how we punish one.

Has to be start at the bottom. No debate.

That would be the least surprising revelation of all time.

Tims. Voluntarily accepting a penalty.

Sounds like an SPL game.

It's probably because none of them actually like fitba but in the attempt to appear down to earth and non controversial at the same time they pick the most middle of the fucking road club possible.

Either that or it's their style of play :-/

I really enjoyed it too. Exciting stuff and Terry in full kit was a true LOL moment.

Fitba fan? Aye right.

Truly, spectacularly bat shit mental.

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I see BBC have the official attendance of their match last night at 43,383.

From the few minutes I saw on television I'd argue that was shite and that they actually do do walking away.

Caption comp anyone?

 

Anyone have any ideas to get us out of this mess?

Huns. Outraged by everything. Ashamed of nothing.

Aye, if they need drinks serving at half time.

And the small matter of a European Cup winning goal.

Wee cunt

God save HMRC. Delicious.

Being a user of online tickets when I'm home I have to say this is a great move. The Ticket office was a nightmare on match day.

I've just read The Black House by Peter May and moving onto the second of the trilogy: The Lewis Man.

Well worth a look.