Ramperbamper

No tin hat required. I absolutely agree. No one remembers who finishes below first. A cup is something real. Season is done. A shambles of one at that.

Nonsense. Why even enter the league if the cups are the only thing worth concerning ourselves about?

I’d rather have won the cup over finishing 2nd but like it or not, there’s still something to play for especially as we’re by no means guaranteed Europe again. And let’s be honest, if we chuck the next 5 games it’ll be used as ammo.

I also think we should drop the players who won't be here next season and see how we get on, I'd rather be shyte trying things than be shyte with the same old, but we know it won't happen.

Don't agree - need to try and get over the line especially since we're not in Europe yet.

Logan obviously. He has been rank rotten all season. Ball is a defensive midfielder and in that position isnt nearly as bad as folk make out. However it has been revealed all too painfully that a full back he definitely is not. As has been said.....McInnes had 4 weeks to sort out something for this game knowing that Logan wasn't going to be playing. Ball should have played at least once, probably twice in that period to see if he was capable of doing so effectively. Logan would not have been missed, he has contributed the square root of fuck all all season and the rest may have done Logan some good and certainly concentrated his mind that he needs to buck up his ideas. Ball would have shown that he wasn't up to being a right back and DM could have made alternative plans for Saturday....going with a back 3 most likely and we may have found ourselves in a Cup Final.

 

That we aren't lies firmly and squarely on the shoulders of McInnes who did absolutely nothing

Logan played well in the three games following the QF win which resulted in three wins. Ball has played RB at Parkhead, and had another opportunity to play there in a youth game last week.

As I say, we'd have heard all about it from the same folk moaning now if Ball had fucked up and we'd dropped important league points on top of being out of the cup. The nature of football fans is that they aren't held accountable for their havering, the gaffer has to make a decision and put his neck on the line one way or the other.

If the blame lies with McInnes, it's not identifying a suitable backup/competition for Logan in the last window or two (which he effectively held his hands up to post match).

Ball got tried out at right back in the youth game at Dundee last week. Also played there at Parkhead earlier in the season.

Lack of minutes has nothing to do with not playing to the whistle FFS.

Fair doos, my apologies. Yes, I think it would have made a difference. Or, I think it would have had a far greater chance of a negative effect on our league games than it would have had positive affect on the semi. Weighing up the risk, I don't think the extra benefit gained from giving Ball a run out at right back in our league games would have been worth it.

Agree with this - the three suspended players (including Shay) were all very good to excellent in the three games subsequent to the Killie win. I'm sure McInnes would have been equally slaughtered if he'd given clowns like Ball game time and dropped points as a result.

12k would actually be decent enough, given the build up seems a bit low key and the sense of self-entitlement ringing around sections of the support at present.

Aye, it's an interesting one. Fit's everybody's take on fit the team should be?

 

I'm going:

 

---------------Lewis---------------------

Ball---Arnason---McKenna---Considine

---------O'Connor---Christie------------

McGinn--------Stewart------------GMS-

------------------May--------------------

 

I think Nwakali is pap (despite being okay in one game) and Christie is probably more likely to do as he's told in a role that requires discipline. That is (obviously) the biggest worry though, that's a very weak midfield. It is a very strong attacking midfield though too, so it might just work out nicely.

 

Edit: great minds Jute.

That doesn't look like the worst line up in the world. Motherwell are a bunch of hammer throwers though, so as you suggest our weak central midfield may be an area they target - other obvious option is AOC at right back and Ball in the middle to add a bit of beef.

Also saw on Twitter someone say that the right back Pennington from the youths didn't play yesterday, but he's started pretty much every other game, not sure if he'd be a bonus ball option.

On Nwakali, I think the comparisons with Flood I've seen are valid. Seems like the type who'll have have 5 games out of 10 when he's cracking and the other 5 he's a total liability - just based upon the scattergun, harum scarum nature of his play.

I wouldn't have him I don't think, however it does surprise me that while we piss about with yer Cosgroves, Maynards, Stockleys and Zolas's, Motherwell get a semi-competent player in to fill their main striker role with little fuss. He's exactly the type of player who should be occupying our bench ahead of the fucking Maynard cunt. It would mean that we could actually take a striker on in the hope that he might do something different to what's already on the pitch. We haven't managed that since Josher, and he was limited.

Thought getting rid of Stockley was a touch hasty, as much as he could be a liability he was a step up from your Zola/Tommy Wright lumps of wood, and we've really lacked the target man option at times this year.

Main would be a half decent option for that role from what I've seen. Tin hat on but I'd also still consider Connor Sammon too.

 

Neither of those. New Zealand would be my guess.

 

 

Anyone signed up for this? (Or willing to admit it?) I'm at the stage of due diligence and if they don't let me pay monthly I won't be doing it at all but as far as I can see we can only pay annually?

Can pay monthly mate, the Direct Debit option is right at the end of the "checkout" process.

Based on nothing, and contrary to the facts, as always. Why do folks read that hun shite still?

Surely if there's one thing to take from that saga at the end of last year, it's that shit stirring Weegie pish like that should be roundly ignored.

Looking at the stats 14 shots, 6 on target, 11 corners, 59% of the ball. Surely couldn't have been that bad?

Nah, it wasn't. A bit more guile and we'd have had another couple.

Would be tempted to go with both May and Rooney through the middle from the start in this one. Cannot see the need for 2 holding midfielders against Partick should should be able to play an old fashioned 4-4-2. This is a game we should be looking to win comfortably and be on the front foot from the off. Not a chance McInnes will approach the game that way.

 

In

Train then bar near the ground

Away end

Beer then train back to the capital.

0-2 Rooney and McLean.

I'd keep Shinnie at left back, which possibly necessitates another one in the middle to make up for it - Chidi is like Flood in the sense that he'll win the ball back but won't necessarily hold position.

Plus May and Rooney together definitely feels like someone's shoehorned in.

I see DM is in the press today complaining about our pitch. Why does that matter when your team doesn’t pass the fucking ball? We play so much kick ball long ball shite these days, not just at home, that if anything our opponents have been playing a better passing game and a better pitch helps opponents...

Now let's not go twisting things and leaving bits out to suit an argument - he made it clear that the pitch wasn't the reason that we didn't win, but the likes of McGinn were hampered by the pitch and were having to watch where they were running rather than being able to focus on delivering it in as they normally would, which impacted on how we played. Kilmarnock were similarly hamstrung, McInnes even said the boy Jones suffered similarly. It's a completely logical point of view.

We're absolutely at our best when we get the ball to the likes of McGinn and he runs at players, it's how he's played when we had Hayes and our best performances this season have been when he's got GMS to do similar.

Not disagreeing that Rooney left mid was a strange one, or that we're lacking a target man, but let's make sure the context of the complaints are there, rather than getting all excited because we've seen a headline which presents the opportunity to moan.

Possibly, but we've also lost there twice since then, and both times without a fight. Does that not come into it?

Competed well in the cup final, absolutely. also gone out in another cup to Motherwell, where we didn't even compete. To fucking Motherwell. I think that also has to be taken into consideration.

Everything should be taken into account. Winning week in, week out against the dross of the league shouldn't be underestimated either. My point is a poor season (if that's how things turn out) shouldn't necessarily be grounds for dismissal. Done enough in my eyes to get another crack at it.

It's not just about McInnes, it's never just been about the manager for the last 25 years.  But you're saying it's a personnel issue, I would assume as in the players we have? I don't know if you've missed a word out there and don't want to misquote you but his signings are, for the most part, utter shite. And that isn't just this season.  Why anyone would have faith in him turning the squad around this summer when he failed to do it last summer, and quite spectacularly too, seems strange to me. I genuinely hope I'm wrong, but I think the evidence suggests otherwise.

I'd suggest we wouldn't have got 2nd or got to the cup final last season if we didn't have Lewis and Christie. Some of the players he signed in 2016 turned out to be squad players, some didn't work out and some left because they weren't up to it. Signing an absolute diamond like Lewis shouldn't be negated by signing someone like Storey, when it comes to judging the manager. A proper keeper is more important than the third choice striker.

I think his faith in the existing central defenders this season was misplaced, I'm glad he gave McKenna a shot and I've high hopes for him and Devlin as a pairing, I'd have preferred if we'd kept the target man option in the squad rather than sign Maynard, I'm glad McGinn loved working for him the first time so much that he came back, I'd love more competition in the full back areas. There's things that need to be looked at, but I've enough belief in Del to recruit wisely to stick with him for now.

I think you're probably right in that apart from the majority being upset.  I still think it'll be the minority, and I don't think it'll be that vocal at matches either, i just think people would vote with their feet.

The fact that people are chiefly unhappy about the results against Timmy and the Huns will result in people giving even less of a fuck about standard home games against the likes of Accies or Dundee. The atmosphere is dreadful in those games as it is, and if people will remain unhappy until we start performing in the bigger games, then it's only going to get worse with less emphasis/importance attached to the smaller games. I think it'll cause a malaise and a fan divide not seen since the dying days of that fucking tit Calderwood, and it may well prove to be the end for McInnes just as it was with that fat wanker.

I think it's harsh in the scheme of things and what he's done, especially given that we're still in a good position and less than a year ago we won at Ibrox and competed well in the cup final.

I think more people would be ok with an English team coming in for him than perhaps previously were. I think him going to the Huns would've been horrendous for us, because of what it'd have said about us in the scheme of things as much as us losing what I believe to be a decent manager to our biggest rivals.

FWIW I don't think anyone in the support is really anything other than upset by the results/performances against the bigots this season. I think it's where they place the results/performances in the bigger picture of McInnes' management of the club, past, present and future which is where the debate comes in.

For me it's not just about McInnes. I don't think any manager should be sacked under the circumstances McInnes finds himself in, given that he's shown he can get results against them with previous squads and I believe it's a personnel issue than a McInnes brain freeze or mental block. Perhaps the way modern football is going, down south especially, it's enough for people to want his head on a plate, but I maintain it's a blot on the copybook which needs resolved ASAP rather than grounds for dismissal.

Being honest, how many pumpings, how many utterly lifeless, directionless, spineless performances against the Old Firm would it take for you to say enough is enough?

Based upon you saying you lost faith after the Sevco defeats in December, then your answer would be 3? If you go further back than that then you need to take into account the win at Ibrox and the fighting performance in the Scottish Cup final.

Let's also not ignore at his results against the other 9 teams. To do otherwise plays into the narrative that we only care about games against the bigot brothers.

Sensible to give him another chance in the summer to recruit better, and to push on again.

Meh, end of the season see how the land lies.

 

Our baseline expectation is 3rd place and two semi-finals, or one final with a good draw, or one cup win with an even better draw. A good draw being if we don't get either of the two teams who pay more in wages than us.

 

On one of the other threads recently I attached the study done in Engurland between 2001 and 2012 (and there's no reason to suggest Scotland is different in this regard - in fact probably worse given 4 games a season) that there is a 90% correlation between player salaries (total) and league position. That is quite staggering. It means that we have a 90% chance of finishing third place this season. It also means that only 10% of that positioning can be affected by improved (or shite opposition = -10%) management.

 

I don't believe McInnes does/can get that additional 10% (or even close - very few managers do), and think he's pretty much bang on that baseline expectation. Similarly, I don't think he'll get us below that baseline either. He's steady.

 

For me, most of his issues lie in the transfer market and I think a lot of his tactical decisions would be covered up if he'd got that part right. I'd argue that's the case for both Rodgers and Murty - and in general is supported by the evidence of salary versus league position. In Murty's case, the introduction of Murphy, Goss, Martin and so on will be the buffer they require. Out of our season's signings, zero have been successful apart from loanee Christie and known quantity McGinn. Had we got, say, Moult instead of May and GMS then we'd be having an entirely different season with some of the losses turned into draws/wins and a better league cup and european performance. Had we got an actual central midfielder instead of Tansey then we'd also be better off. Our poor transfer showing has meant that we've had absolutely zero leeway in terms of tactics and that's totally evident when we play better teams.

 

The problem for me is that transfers are season specific and we could get lucky next season (I think Devlin is a good start FWIW) and that could improve McInnes' return and belief in his squad. I think that if we don't replace McInnes, then we should at least look to beef up the player scouting/acquisition team as it's clearly an area he is pap in and needs support. We can't afford another season of very bad value in the transfer market. We have a lot of key purchases to make again too. As ayrshire points out, there have only been a handful of successes.

Agree with the jist of this.

The results and performances this season against the bigots is a huge concern, but for me it's a massive blot in his copybook rather than a sackable offence. He's shown he can beat them before, my theory is that he has less faith in this set of players than last season's squad. I think he knows we aren't good enough to go toe to toe with them and Sunday was simply us being set up not to let them get in behind. That again points to transfer dealings which haven't worked.

The fact that Christie, while a cracking player for us, is on loan from Celtic and we know in advance we're not getting him in those big games is telling, and sends out the wrong message. Unsustainable, and we need to either sign him permanently or move on.

In general though, I think he's a good manager and he's got enough credit to get the chance to build another team.

Not suggesting that at all but we did get to the group stages of the Europa League and got a pretty decent result against Bayern under his management.  It wasn't all bad.

He won fuck all though, so the notion of "we can do better" wasn't a wrong one.

they binned Jimmy Calderwood after qualifying for Europe because of the notion that "we can do better".  Again the years that followed that were disastrous. 

Are you suggesting the JC years were as close to peak AFC we should expect, in this era?

Sacking a manager and appointing a competent/better successor as two entirely separate arguments.

I can understand some folk saying no way to Lennon. However he would bring with him a GIRFUY attitude to playing the cheeks that DM sadly lacks. I just hope that in the event that we are needing a new gaffer in the summer that the board doesn't just take the easy and cheap option of going for Jack Ross without at least trying to tempt a far more proven quantity in Lennon.

Agree that Lennon's record against the cheeks especially this season has been fantastic - I'd been keen to understand why his team are 5 points behind us despite this though. Inability to beat the smaller teams week in, week out as DM manages to do.

This was also true of last summer with the departures of Jack, Hayes and McGinn.  He's had a stroke of luck with McGinn coming back, however, look at the rest of his signings and I have utterly no faith in him to get it right in the summer.

 

Stewart - really nice footballer, but doesn't fit our system. That being the case, seems a strange and lazy move.

Maynard - utter toilet. A dismal footballer. Had McInnes watched him recently prior to taking him on?

Tansey - after the guy for nigh on two years, hardly plays and when he does it's not in a role that suits the player. Disappeared back up the road and we probably won't see him in a Dons shirt again.

Arnason - seemed reluctant to play him and is in and out the side despite showing early promise in the partnership with McKenna.

May - not convinced he's right in terms of fitness, but also doesn't fit our system. That being the case, seems a strange and lazy move.

Ball - a bit pish. Nowhere near good enough on the ball. The fact he has featured so rarely surely suggests DM thinks the same.

 

I think his signings are short sighted - loan moves, one year deals; with the exception of May and McGinn there is no future in the signings from the summer now that it looks like Tansey won't be back. What was DM's thinking with that? Why the short termism? It's strange because he's actually done a good job in getting players to sign extensions, like Lewis for example.

 

He has to do better this summer.  He maybe thought he'd be away from Aberdeen at some point this season.  My concern is that his utterly dismal record in big matches continues and he won't get another club coming for him.  Milne will never sack him because he protects Milne and then we're stuck with him.  Stuck in the same cycle of bending over and letting the Old Firm do us as many times as they like.

You omitted GMS there - arguably the best of the signings in the summer, and somebody who McInnes seems to be getting something out of. Getting that more regularly is the challenge.

Would also disagree with just writing McGinn off as a lucky signing. Indications seem to be that he was happy working with him previously and felt he got the best from him. If it wasn't the case, and he'd gone off to Hibs or Hearts then I'm sure that'd be used against him in conversations like this.

Never ideal having to rely on loans, but McInnes likes players he knows well or who he's worked with before. Rather than short termism, I'd maybe suggest the issue is relying on a relatively narrow pool of players. Take a risk, perhaps expand the scouting network and cast the net a bit wider.

I think other clubs may not be as wasteful... and probably rely more on bringing through youth players

Not sure I agree with that at all - which other clubs are you using as a comparison? Excluding Celtic (and yiur argument surely isn't we're less wasteful than Sevco?), any "other club" aren't doing as well as us, which negates the point.

McInnes produces consistently against the other 9 clubs in the league with the team/squad he's assembled. I'm also yet to see any youth product we've not given game time to come back to prove us wrong, with the possible exception of Joe at St Johnstone.

Sometimes signings don't work out for various reasons (daft to try to use a young hopeful like Shankland, and Quinn who didn't settle, against the manager) - a 50% strike rate is about right, but I'm glad he'll tend to get rid rather than flog a dead horse, albeit I agree that Maynard seems to be an exception to the rule.

Ward and Lewis were particularly inspired signings, and it was especially ballsy to establish the former as a number one, based on a handful of games in the yoofs at Liverpool.

My main concern is that the Huns now look to be shopping in the same circles as us, good players from weaker Premiership clubs and players who've gone done south and fallen out of favour.

Not saying you are wrong BB but think these statistics require a bit of balance and perspective.

 

21 of these games were against Celtic.  Since the 2013-14 season, Celtic have played 175 league games and lost 10.  Therefore, everyone has a crap record against them.

 

Of the other 7 games, we have won 2 and lost 5 which yes is a poor return but you can't write off McInnes' fantastic record over 230 odd games as manager and slaughter him just because he has lost 5 of those games against rangers.

Agree with this - and big games are about more than the Old Firm. Need to look at cup semis, wins at Tynecastle/Easter Road, wins against the Tim and Hun in Glasgow etc which we've had.

We've done it before, and we've shown we're capable. Which is why it's infuritating.

Yet to be convinced the Huns are able to go on winning runs against the pish of the league as we and McInnes have shown they can. Very hopeful we'll still get 2nd.

Have to start Shinnie in the middle here, despite Consi having a mare last time out - partly due to being hung out to dry by the gaffer - and it's in all our interests that Shinnie doesn't get an early booking and is hamstrung for the rest of the game.

I also hope Del doesn't overthink it. We have good players, set them out how we normally set them out and we're more than capable of beating these cunts. Not the game to try and shoehorn both Rooney and May in, or to play 3 at the back etc.